[bowser89]

This is my first posting of a list. I have been playing for a while but never looked for suggestions.

Lord

Level 4 Sorceror Lord
Mark of Tzeentch
Third eye of Tzeentch
Blood of Tzeentch
Disk of Tzeentch

365

Heros

Wulfric the Wanderer 185

Exalted Hero of Khorne
BSB
150

Core

60 Mauraders
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Khorne
350

10 Maurader Horseman
Shields
140

10 Maurader Horseman
Shields
140


Special

18 Chosen Warriors of Tzeentch
Shields
Command
Banner of Rage
447

18 Chosen Warriors of Khorne
Extra Hand Weapons
Command
422

Rare

2 Tzeentch Warshrines


2499 points
119 Models



Obviously my strategy is Wulfric SeaFanging in the big squad of Mauraders in the rear. the horseman take the flanks. the warshrines come inside of them and then the warriors. the BSB goes in the Khrone warrior unit and the Sorceror stays out of combat shooting off spells.

Let me know what you think i am playing around with my rare and special Choices a little. i have ogres and a Hellcannon, also a few knights.

 

[Vaz]

Sorceror Lord - he's got a 5+ Ward Save and a 3+ Armour Save - that'll do jack shit on disc. He requires either the Armour of Morrsleib, or preferably, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, giving him a 3+/3++. You're also missing out on either Skull of Katam/Book of Ashur for a total of a +6 to cast - with a basic +5 to cast, you're not going to need to reroll your dice to cast all that much. Also, at 340 points, Vilitch could well work - at only 45 points more, he knows all 6 spells, and with the vessel of Chaos, he works perfectly.

Wulfric, he's good, especially with 60 Marauders. Not sure that it's something to base the army around.

hero of Khorne - halberd and shield at least please. I'd also recommend the Razor Standard or Standard of Discipline.

60 Marauders - swap for Flails, other than that, good enough. I4 is a killer, and with around 41 S5 Attacks at that level, you're raping.

Marauder Horse - too many. Vanguard is good, but you're running basic - give them Flails again, and MoS - Ld 7, out of reach of a general and bsb, you're looking at a unit that's not going to last very long. A 5+ AS won't last very long at all.

Warriors of Tzeentch - MoN with Halberds and a Banner of Rage is the best set up for a first unit, doubled with a MoT with Shields and a Blasted Standard. Swap MoK for MoN - Give the MoK Chosen Champion the Mask of Eee!, and you'll have a good chance of getting +1 Attack or Strength. If you're taking Chosen virtually nude, you might as well stick with basic warriors and get more benefit from them - doubly so if you're running dual Shrines. However, when tooled up, they truely become the killing machines.

Yes - I'm a chosen convert - I never used them prior to 8th Edition, but now, if I'm running infantry lists, MoN with Banner of Rage, Mask of Eee, Halberds, Shields, and BSB with Razor Standard is right up there along with the best of the deathstar units - At around 25 S5 or 6 AP attacs munches through a shit lot.

Twin Shrines is awesome.

 

[Kulzanar]

I'd give your lord a better ward save through either golden eye of Tzeentch, talisman of preservation or armour of preservation. Your call on how all-around you want your save. The staff of katam and book of Ashur are a waste of points. I wouldn't take blood of Tzeentch but I can understand why you want it, mostly you'll just use it to give your opponent a harder dispell roll or to avoid irrisistable. Conjoined homunculus is far better if you ask me, it'll happen quite often you'll be 1 or 2 on the required casting value because of a bad roll. D3 extra can really help then. Third eye of Tzeentch is good but I find it to depending on what your opponent fields.

I agree with Vaz on the BSB, give him some extra, perhaps a magic banner if not, axe of khorne for those challenges.

Wulfrik is gold. But I wouldn't put him in a 60 man unit. Give them flails and MoK and lessen them to 25-30. My arguments, when attacking a 5 wide man unit only 21 models will be able to hit considering the horde rule. With 6 wide that's 24 and so on. That's half of your models not being able to hit, quite a waste. And shooting units of 10 wide are mostly up and around only 100 points. Also, they can only arrive starting turn 2 and then on a 5+. When they arrive they stand there, they may not charge or anything, just as if they pursued off the board. That gives your oppenent quite some time to deal with the small force arranged before him and then to reposition on the new threat. They'll kill units alright but I doub't they'll make even worth half their points. Lessen the unit and use the other points in a unit that you can put on the table in turn 1.

The marauder horsemen are a playstyle choice. Though I'd give them flails and perhaps MoK. I'm not convinced of 10 man units but I am of 5 man. They can harrass for no point cost.

The chosen are good, although perhaps change the weapons on the khorne ones. I'd use halberds or shield. Halberds give them 3 str 5 attacks each and shields more survivability. If you want to use a chop chop unit use warriors for it, they cost less and only have 1 WS less and a blessing less.

I'd also give one of your chosen a favour of the gods for the champion, adjusting the table is awesome, especially with two warshrines. Otherwise you might keep rolling and rolling and never get what you want. A friend of mine looked at the table and with favour of the gods and the first blessing they get you can be sure of either +1S +1T +1A +1As MR3 Terror or the stubborn and 4+ WS. It can also keep you safe of insanity and the eye is closed when blessing with the warshrine.

The shrines are good, you could always make room for a Hellcannon, they are raw killing power now. Last time I used one it made 50+ kills in models, just roll and hope for that hit or a small scatter.

 

[olderplayer]

Other than the two M. Horsemen blocks, this is a ground pounding army that will get shot up (magic or shooting before ever getting into combat) too often.

Marauders simply die too quickly to survive. Agree with the flails instead of GW comment. Once the BSB is killed, even if steadfast, the marauder block will eventually break if hit in the flank or front with something tougher and more resilient. If one does the math, a unit of chaos warriors with halberds has the same hitting strength but does not have ASL and will kill a lot more models and last a lot longer due to greater toughness and armour saves.

The M. Horsemen are interesting but more effective with throwing axes and flails used for harassment, warmachine and fast cav hunting, and flank protection. You don't need such large blocks, just large enough to charge warmachines with the flails doing enough damage to kill the crew and charge other fast cav with the flails. Units of 10 are a waste as the odds are that one will have at least one model killed in the first combat and, thus, no ability to use the units to disrupt ranks. If you go with a much larger unit, like 15 models, it will help but just make the unit too tempting a target for shooting and too easy to kill off. The shields prevent you from exploiting the fast cav rules if also equiped with light armour. Otherwise, us them for feigned flight to induce failed charges, reform and throw axes at flanks of troops. MoS is a very common mark and musicians for rallies are essential for M. Horsemen.

I'm not impressed by chosen in 8th edition. Chosen are better in 8th edition than 7th due to hitting based on initiative and not charging but about a push for the extra points relative to warriors. For the extra points per per model, one might as well just run chaos warriors (to fill the core requirement) with magic banners and use the warshrines for the warriors. You're paying extra points for chosen over warriors for +1 WS and one roll on the eye of the gods table at the start of the battle. Sometimes, that will work out worthwhile, but other times not. At least put a favour of the gods on the champ or a character in the chosen unit to improve the odds for the eye of the gods rolls. I do like the combos of MoT with banner of rage and MoK with halberds, not AHW. The extra handweapon is not worth as much as a halberd in 8th edition because of the limit of only one supporting attack from the second rank making the extra handweapon only a benefit to the front rank while the halberds benefit the supporting ranks. At most, only one chosen unit needs to be run. I've always felt that the special slot needs mobility and hitting power. Dragon Ogres, Chaos ogres (2 ranks by 3 or 4 wide with command and MoK and chaos armour), and Chaos knights with magic banners and protection are better values for the points.

The BSB should never be naked. It should have max protection and often be mounted (to allow it to move to where it is needed most for break tests and rallies) with a cav unit. Consider MoT with MR and ward saves to max protect, also possibly enchanted shield. If on foot, it needs to be with an elite warrior block that both protects it and is protected by it (with the MR).

Wulfrick is interesting, but, with the size and amount invested in the marauder block (185 plus 350), do you really want to risk the marauder unit not coming onto the board until turn 3, by which time the opposing army has been able to concentrate on and defeat in detail the other units? I'd rather run a Lvl 2 MoT sorcerer.