[Finnsane]

3000 points Ordo Hereticus Army

Ordo Hereticus



HQ


Inquisitor Lord Karamazov = 205 points

Canoness = 150 points

Canoness has been upgraded with Mantle of Ophelia, Cloak of St. Aspira, Blessed Weapon, Inferno Pistol, Jump Pack and Melta Bombs.


Elites


Celestian Squad = 217 points

4 Celestians.
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi Flamer and Melta Bombs.
One of the Celestians has been upgraded to carry a Multi-Melta.
One of the Celestians has been upgraded to carry a Meltagun.
One of the Celestians has been upgraded to an Imagifier.
Mounted in an Immolator with twin-linked Multi-Meltas and extra armour.


Troop choice


Sisters of Battle Squad = 212 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 212 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 212 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 216 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran Superior has Book of St Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Meltagun.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 216 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran superior has Power Weapon and Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Meltagun.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 216 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi-Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Veteran superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Meltagun.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.


Fast attack


Seraphim Squad = 185 points

4 Seraphim.
1 Veteran Superior with Eviscerator, bolt pistol and Melta Bombs.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius.
Two of the Seraphim have been upgraded to carry twin Inferno pistols.

Seraphim Squad = 185 points

4 Seraphim
1 Veteran Superior with Eviscerator, bolt pistol and Melta Bombs.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius.
Two of the Seraphim have been upgraded to carry twin Inferno pistols.

Dominion Squad = 190 points

4 Dominions.
1 Veteran Superior with Combi Flamer and Melta Bombs.
4 Dominions have been upgraded with Flamers.
Mounted in a Immolator upgraded with extra armour.


Heavy support


Retributor Squad = 289 points

9 Retributors
1 Veteran Superior with a Combi Flamer and Melta Bombs.
Four of the Retributors have been upgraded to carry Heavy Bolters.
One of the Retributors with no heavy weapon has been upgraded to an Imagifier.
Mounted in a Immolator upgraded with extra armour.

Exorcist = 150 points

1 Exorcist with Extra Armour and a Hunter Killer Missile.

Immolator = 85 points

1 Immolator.
Armed with twin linked heavy bolters.
Immolator has been upgraded with Blessed Ammunition and Extra Armour.



Total points = 2948

 

[Azezel]

You aren't allowed to post points costs for individual items of wargear.

 

[Finnsane]

You aren't allowed to post points costs for individual items of wargear.

Done, care to evaluate the army?

 

[Azezel]

=][= units are not my strong suit, but since you asked.

Your Canonness will live longer with a Mantle of Ophelia - she's only toughness three and there's a ton of Strength six hurt out there.

Repentia: No. Just no.

I personally do not like Celestians, but they are not terrible. So long as you're running Celestians the VSS really should have a power weapon and extra close-combat weapon (and you needn't specify power armour, they all have it). Consider a meltagun instead of a regular flamer.

There is never a good reason to issue a Storm Bolter. Battle Sister special weapons are ideally Heavy Flamer+Meltagun. You might swap the Meltagun for a flamer, but that's it. No Storm Bolters.

This goes double for your Dominions. Please to note, Dominions must have transport - that's what makes them Fast Attack.

I don't know why GW put a storm bolter in the box set, no-one does, they just did and now you have a useless model, sorry.

Meltabombs for your VSS will pay dividends.

Your Seraphim squads are fine, but you seem to have made a mistake with your maths.


Let's talk about Retributors... What are they going to do? They have an upper range of 24" - effective range 12", the enemy know this. Your Retributors will stand around doing nothing all-game while the enemy tanks sit 25 inches away taking pot-shots at your Exorcist.

The Simulacrum Imperialis is useless there. The last thing that multimeltas need is Divine Guidance and Spirit of the Martyr is no use since the enemy will never bother shooting at so ineffective a unit.

If you swap the Multimeltas for heavy bolters, that's another story. Divine Guidance+Heavy bolters is scary.

Your Exorcist needs no Holy Icon. It's job is to stay at the back of the battlefield while the rest of your army advances - there shouldn't be any units close enough to benefit from a Holy Icon.

You may not include a Leman Russ unless your army has two units of inducted guard. Even then, you may not field a Punisher - just the vanilla Russ.


That's just a list of things that jumped out as I read through. More generally - you need transport. It's a pain, I know, but Sisters just do not work foot-slogging. Dominions simply cannot be used without a transport.

 

[Finnsane]

If troops are not your strong suit, then what is your strong suit, must be a very good strong suit! :shok:

All of your comments and changes will be made where I see appropriate.

Any maths or incorrect information, I apologise for and I will make amends shortly.

This is my first army list and this army is basically based on what my brother thinks would be good. He collects Orks. Enough said on that matter.

If you would not have Repentia and you don't like Celestians then what Elites would you include?

Not had much time to read over the Codex, just getting to grips with the army.

I put the Repentia in simply for the close combat element, which I feel this army lacks somewhat.

Is it a possibility to just hang back without transport and wait for them to come to you?

I will publish my new army list shortly with a few slight changes

 

[Azezel]

My comments were mostly negative since you did specify that you were looking for criticism.

I said that Inquisitorial units were not my style, I never said I didn't like troops.

In fact, Sisters and Orks have exactly one thing in common. The best unit in each codex is the basic troop choice, the humble Ork boy and the plain ol' Battle Sister are perhaps the best troops in the game - although I would not like to say which is truely number one...


Which brings me on to your question about Elites. I don't use any - I use Battle Sisters. If you must have an Elite choice, then a temple Assassin is your best bet, since you already have an Inquisitor Lord.

Four squads of Battle Sisters are an ideal foundation for an army (I'd probably want five at your points level). I stand by what I said about requiring transport, however.

The sisters are bad at long range, they're worse in assault, but at template-range (8") nobody can beat them. Getting there is key. You need rhinos, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Finnsane]

I appreciate criticism gives me something to build on :biggrin:

I guess the Sister's make up the majority of the army but I love Karamazov as a unit and feel he is unknown and more importantly underestimated unlike Celestine.

Well that is one similarity and a useful one to have a balanced codex.

If I were to have an assassin which one would you suggest?

So basically all the models that would normally be foot-slogging go in Rhinos and I have put the Dominions in an Immolator.

Right I'll bare that in mind

 

[Azezel]

I put my Dominions in an Immolator (Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers, Extra Armour) - but a Rhino is also an option.

As for the Assassin (and I only said 'if you must have an Elite choice') - it really depends what you want. Once again - I don't do =][= and can therefore only give academic, advice, not practical experience.

Culexus: as you've probably noticed, psyker killers. Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Callidus: Probably the best of the bunch. Definately the hardest to use effectively. 'A word in your ear...' The possibilities are limitless. If you're smart.

Eversor: Used to be a no-brainer, Fifth Edition changed that, but still not bad, if you like that sort of thing. That sort of thing being a basic all-round thorn in the enemy's side. also, Eversors explode when they die, which is just funny.

Vindicare: Fairly nasty sniper with an array of funky tricks that can make life easier for you. Consider the Vindicare as a kind of scalpel. Fifth Edition was kind to the Vindicare, if I did use =][= units, it'd be this one.

 

[Finnsane]

I was thinking that but changing twin flamers to twin heavy bolters with blessed ammunition to ignore cover saves. Not sure which I prefer.

I think I'll go with Callidus.

And your allowed 3 Elites and 4 Troops choice right?

How can you have more than 4 Battle Sister squads, or am I just wrong?

 

[Azezel]

You're allowed 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support and 6 Troops (q.v. Codex: Witch Hunters pp. 24).

Regarding Immolator arms.

I often field an empty Immolator as a Heavy Support choice armed with TL Heavy Bolters and Blesses Ammo. It's a beast, I love it. Anything without Power Armour lives in fear of it.

However - that's a Heavy Support Immolator.

When you use an Immolator for transport it has to be able to move. An Immolator with TL Heavy Flamers can move 12" and still fire! Armed with Heavy Bolters it cannot.

 

[Finnsane]

Can an Immolator be used for transport and not be counted as a Heavy Support choice?

 

[Azezel]

Hell yes.

The Dominion Squad rules on pp. 35 under Transport Vehicle. Long story short, if the squad numbers 6 or less an Immolator may be chosen as a dedicated transport.

This also applies to Celestians and Retributors (But not Battle sisters, since their minimum squad size is 10)

 

[Finnsane]

NEW EDITED ARMY LIST:

Ordo Hereticus


HQ


Inquisitor Lord Karamazov = 205 points

Canoness = 130 points

Canoness has been upgraded with Cloak of St. Aspira, Mantle of Ophelia, Blessed Weapon, Inferno Pistol and Melta Bombs.


Elites


Callidus Temple Assassin = 120 points


Troop choice


Sisters of Battle Squad = 196 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Veteran superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 196 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 206 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Veteran Superior has Power Weapon and Book of St Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 196 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Veteran superior has Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.

Sisters of Battle Squad = 206 points

9 Battle Sisters
1 Veteran Superior with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Veteran superior has Power Weapon and Book of St. Lucius.
One of the Battle Sisters has been upgraded to carry a Heavy Flamer.
Mounted in a Rhino upgraded with extra armour.


Fast attack


Seraphim Squad = 165 points

4 Seraphim.
1 Veteran Superior with Eviscerator and bolt pistol.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius.
Two of the Seraphim have been upgraded to carry twin Hand Flamers

Seraphim Squad = 165 points

4 Seraphim
1 Veteran Superior with Eviscerator and bolt pistol.
Veteran Superior has Book of St. Lucius
Two of the Seraphim have been upgraded to carry twin Hand Flamers

Dominion Squad = 189 points

4 Dominions.
1 Veteran Superior with Combi Flamer and Meltabombs.
4 Dominions have been upgraded with Flamers.
Mounted in a Immolator upgraded with extra armour.


Heavy support


Retributor Squad = 204 points

9 Retributors
1 Veteran Superior with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
Four of the Retributors have been upgraded to carry Heavy Bolters.
One of the Retributors with no heavy weapon has been upgraded to an Imagifier.
Mounted in a Immolator upgraded with extra armour.

Exorcist = 150 points

1 Exorcist with Extra Armour and a Hunter Killer Missile

Immolator = 85 points

1 Immolator
Armed with twin linked heavy bolters
Immolator has been upgraded with Blessed Ammunition and Extra Armour.

Total points = 2428

Any more advice is appreciated

 

[Azezel]

Heavy Flamers for your troops squads. That's one of the army's big advantages. And a Cloak of St. Aspira for your Canonness.

It's rarely worth mixing weapons in a Dominion squad. Doing two half-arsed job just makes you a complete arse, as the folk-wisdom goes. Choose 4x Flamer or 4x Meltagun.

Consider how your Canonness is going to opperate. All of the Rhinos are full.

 

[Finnsane]

So instead of one Flamer and one Meltagun, have one Heavy Flamer for all of the squads? Is it really worth it?

I thought cloaks and mantles were the same thing, but ok then.

I could give the Canoness a Jump Pack and put her with a Seraphim Squad?

 

[Azezel]

For the love of god and England, do not put your canonness with your Seraphim!

Um... Okay, panic over. Seraphim have the Hit & Run rule - specifically, they have the Ehird Edition Hit & Run rule - That's a good thing. In fact, that rule alone is what make Seraphim work. If your Canonness, or any other IC joins them, they loose Hit & Run.


Personally, I equip my Canonness thus:

Canonness w/ Inferno Pistol, Eviscerator, Mantle of Ophelia, Cloak of St. Aspira & Jump Pack - 140 points.

For all-round style and effectiveness the Flying Nun hard to beat. Some people like the Blessed Weapon more than the Eviscerator and that's okay, there is no right choice there - follow your heart.

The Blessed Weapon counts as mastercraft, but can't really hurt tanks. The Eviscerator is Initiiative 1 but turns Land Raiders into confetti with a little Divine Guidance.

A Canonness with both a Mantle of Ophelia and a Cloak of St. Aspira is just about ineradicable. I've seen her tie up two Wraithlords in close-combat for a whole game. She won't kill the Wraithlords, but who cares?

She has a 2+ (usually Invulnerable) save, three wounds and immunity to the first instant death. What's not to love?

Never join her with your Seraphim, though. Use her as an independant tank hunter (Eviscerator) or HQ hunter (Blessed Weapon).


Yes, Heavy Flamers are worth it. You'll love them, I guarantee it. I like Heavy Flamer & Meltagun (with combi-Flamer for the VSS), but Heavy Flamer & Flamer is good if you don't face much armour.

 

[Finnsane]

Seeing as I have a Callidus Temple Assassin to kill HQ's, I will take the Eviscerator.

The codex says 'If only one special weapon is taken, then one Battle Sister may take a heavy flamer at +12 points'

Doesn't this mean that if you take a heavy flamer you are not allowed another special weapon such as a meltagun or a flamer.

 

[Azezel]

40k uses very specific, legalistic, terminology.

'Up to two Battle Sisters may be armed with the following special weapons' - means exactly what it says, and lists every special weapon available to Battle Sisters, you may select two. If a weapon is not listed there, it is not a special weapon.

If you select only one special weapon, then you may also select a Heavy Flamer.

The Heavy Flamer does not appear in the list of Special Weapons, and as such is not a special weapon.

(Note the next paragraph: 'Imagifer', 'Not carrying a Special Weapon or Heavy Flamer'.)

If it were a special weapon, you could have two of them...

 

[Finnsane]

Right I guess I just need to pay attention to the little details like that. I'm going to edit the original army list to the final product. So look on that to see the army list.

 

[asianavatar]

For the love of god and England, do not put your canonness with your Seraphim!

Why not?!?!?! They provide cover and extra wounds for her, plus if its at the point where they need to use a faith point than you save having to use the extra one. If you really need to attack a target where the seraphim need to jump away than move them so they are two inches away from the HQ than charge them into the same unit. Until that time the extra protection is pretty good.

Actually, I would say that if you are charging an enemy where you plan to jump out after I think you need to rethink your plan. Seraphim are not a great CC unit. They should get to a unit hit it with flamers and pistols and charge in to clean up the rest. Personally, staying in combat one turn with a whittled down almost dead unit is probably better than jumping out and having the chance of being shot to death.

Just saying that keeping your canonness with your Seraphim is not the worst thing ever, its not like its having a priest with your retributor squad.