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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone think Chaos Daemons are the hardest army to make a list for? Seems the random deployment can scuttle my plans even if I'm trying to think ahead. While still in the process of building a Khorne/Nurgle list I decided to look ahead to what would be an ideal tourney list even if I only expect to play for fun. So, toss me your guided wisdom on this:

HQ
Bloodthirter w/Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God...275pts
Keeper of Secrets w/Unholy Might, Soporific Musk...235pts

Elite
6x Bloodcrushers of Khorne...240
5x Flamers of Tzneetch w/Bolt of Change...205pts
5x Flamers of Tzneetch w/Bolt of Change...205pts

Troop
10x Bloodletters of Khorne...160pts
10x Bloodletters of Khorne...160pts
6x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...115pts
6x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...115pts
5x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...75pts

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235

Total = 2490pts


1st Wave
Keeper of Secrets
5x Flamers
10x Bloodletters
6x Plaguebearers w/Icon
5x Plaugebearers
2x Daemon Princes
1260pts

2nd Wave
Bloodthirster
5x Flamers
6x Bloodcrushers
10x Bloodletters
6x Plaugebearers
Daemon Prince
1230pts

Well, this is what I have to start, the goal is a balanced army that can be useful against any army.
 

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Anyone think Chaos Daemons are the hardest army to make a list for? Seems the random deployment can scuttle my plans even if I'm trying to think ahead. While still in the process of building a Khorne/Nurgle list I decided to look ahead to what would be an ideal tourney list even if I only expect to play for fun. So, toss me your guided wisdom on this:

HQ
Bloodthirter w/Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God...275pts
Keeper of Secrets w/Unholy Might, Soporific Musk...235pts
Raaaaawwgghh!!! These guys are beasts and you basically hit the otimal builds for them spot on. They won't disappoint you (until they die of a DS mishap :p)

Elite
6x Bloodcrushers of Khorne...240
These don't need to anymore than 4 strong. Just give them their 3 upgrades and they last just as long (if not longer) than a unit of 6. It's also cheaper.

5x Flamers of Tzneetch w/Bolt of Change...205pts
5x Flamers of Tzneetch w/Bolt of Change...205pts
These units are also unecessarily large. These guys are suicide units, and rather expensive at that, so they should not number more than 4. Bolt is also wasted on these as they autoglance on 4's. I'd suggest dropping them for fiends. At this point level there really is no excuse not including them.

Troop
10x Bloodletters of Khorne...160pts
10x Bloodletters of Khorne...160pts
Hard to use, but if you know how they can butcher anything they hit. Don't waste them.
6x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...115pts
6x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...115pts
5x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...75pts
These guys could use a few more members. 7 seems to be the golden number (moreso because it's fluffy). At this point level it' a good thing to ensure they stay around.

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Expensive, but there are not many things they can't rape in H2H.
Total = 2490pts


1st Wave
Keeper of Secrets
5x Flamers
10x Bloodletters
6x Plaguebearers w/Icon
5x Plaugebearers
2x Daemon Princes
1260pts

2nd Wave
Bloodthirster
5x Flamers
6x Bloodcrushers
10x Bloodletters
6x Plaugebearers
Daemon Prince
1230pts
Well, since the army split isn't a part of your list expect it to change from game to game. And as a bit of advice, similar looking waves aren't the best way to use daemons. Half an army vs. a whole one ain't cool, even moreso if your army aren't made for that. Most of the time you'll want all 3 princes in the same wave to overload the enemy's guns.
But just remember with daemons nothing is set in stone. So plan and adjust accordingly.

Well, this is what I have to start, the goal is a balanced army that can be useful against any army.
And that was I had to say to start. :)
It should be a bit more competetive with above changes, but if you don't expect that to become relevant the list is perfectly fine as it is. You got plenty of the good stuff and nothing of the useless. Good gaming!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Okay, seems there's a love of Fiends and I don't want to be responsible for any sad panda's. So taking the above advice I worked out this.

HQ
Bloodthirter w/Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God...275pts
Keeper of Secrets w/Unholy Might, Soporific Musk...235pts

Elite
5x Bloodcrushers of Khorne w/Fury of Khorne, Instrument of Chaos...215
6x Fiends of Slaneesh w/Unholy Might...190pts
4x Flamers of Tzneetch...140pts

Troop
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...145pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle w/Chaos Icon...145pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235

Total = 2500pts


1st Wave
Bloodthirster
Keeper of Secrets
3x Daemon Princes
1215pts

2nd Wave
6x Fiends
4x Flamers
5x Bloodcrushers
2x10 Bloodletters
3x8 Plaugebearers
1285pts

I removed most of the Flamers (Uhg, cause I own them), added Fiends and increased the size of Plaguebearer squads as suggested. Had 10pts left so I gave the Bloodletters IoC to make an even 2500pts. Then I changed the deployment groups to have the MC's in the 1st wave followed by the troops. Anyone think Icons still useful? Anyway, my gut tells me to increase size of Elite squads but I need to trust in what people are telling me. Let me know what you think, thanx!
 

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Seems pretty good. Ace list although it will probably have some trouble with mech. But then again, when doesn't mech cause daemons trouble?
 

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When they have max Fiends, Tzeralds and Flesh Hounds :p

The Icons aren't really necessary when all your good bits are fast anyway. You can drop them, the Flamers and some PBs to fit in more Fiends and a unit of Flesh Hounds. I normally go max Fiends, but a unit of Crushers can make for a nice mop up and bullet magnet unit.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Geez, are Fiends the uber unit? Taking your advice I put together the following list. Is this really better? I already own Flamers but I don't own any Fiends (bought Bloodcrushers cause they look awesome) so this would cost a huge amount. I do admit this looks scary with alot of attacks coming at you quickly!


HQ
Bloodthirter w/Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God...275pts
Keeper of Secrets w/Unholy Might, Soporific Musk...235pts

Elite
5x Bloodcrushers of Khorne w/Fury of Khorne, Instrument of Chaos...215
6x Fiends of Slaneesh w/Unholy Might...190pts
6x Fiends of Slaneesh w/Unholy Might...190pts

Troop
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235

Total = 2500pts


1st Wave
Bloodthirster
Keeper of Secrets
3x Daemon Princes
1215pts

2nd Wave
2x6 Fiends
5x Bloodcrushers
2x10 Bloodletters
3x8 Plaugebearers
1285pts
 

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Yes fiends are the über unit of ultimate desolation. But they don't encourage particularly clever (or just weird) plays that a list without 18 does. There's not much difficulty in dropping 6-18 fiends in safety and then charging 19-24 inches and killing stuff the following turn.

But they are without a doubt the best unit in the codex due to their speed, flexibility and survivability compared to their cost.
But your list isn't sorely lacking their over-the-top-über-cheesyness-of-infernal-and-evilgasmic-speedkilling-frenzy-of-unholy-smchanoly-killyness-of-doom-and-despair.

Unless you plan on going to some serious tournies of course :)
 

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Your Dp wound on a 2+ and rereol everything till T5 and the rest wound on a 2+ so you don't need unholy might...maybe for vehicles..but you are a Mc and you have 2 dice for penetration...so...:threaten:

Use those 60 points elsewhere
 

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Fiends are the best unit in the book, so maxing on them is never a bad idea.

You can field Flamers instead (4-5 with bolt for versatile mobile shooters), you just lose out on an awesome assault unit in favor of a nasty shooty unit that is a lot more fragile.
 

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Geez, are Fiends the uber unit? Taking your advice I put together the following list. Is this really better? I already own Flamers but I don't own any Fiends (bought Bloodcrushers cause they look awesome) so this would cost a huge amount. I do admit this looks scary with alot of attacks coming at you quickly!


HQ
Bloodthirter w/Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God...275pts
Keeper of Secrets w/Unholy Might, Soporific Musk...235pts
These are perfect.

Elite
5x Bloodcrushers of Khorne w/Fury of Khorne, Instrument of Chaos...215
6x Fiends of Slaneesh w/Unholy Might...190pts
6x Fiends of Slaneesh w/Unholy Might...190pts
I usually prefer flamers over Fiends, but that's just me. They bring some great shooting attacks into an assault oriented army.


Troop
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
10x Bloodletters of Khorne w/Instrument of Chaos...165pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts
8x Plaguebearers of Nurgle...120pts
Plaguebearers are just right at squads of eight. They are tough to get off objectives, and a full squad of eight can be murder in close combat. I'd consider picking up some pink horrors, a squad of ten can get you a changeling, and 30 shots at 18". At 2500 points for Daemons, I *always* roll 15 Bloodletters and 15 Pink Horrors, it gives my opponent two very nasty troop choices to deal with before he even thinks about going for my objective holding Plaguebearers. The horrors can hold an objective very well on their own, especially one that isn't in cover.


Heavy Support
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch...235
I love nurgle princes. As previously mentioned, unless you're expecting a lot of Tyranids, I'd drop the unholy might because S6 with a reroll only comes into play against Tyranids/Daemons and other MC heavy lists.

Total = 2500pts


1st Wave
Bloodthirster
Keeper of Secrets
3x Daemon Princes
1215pts

2nd Wave
2x6 Fiends
5x Bloodcrushers
2x10 Bloodletters
3x8 Plaugebearers
1285pts
One thing I had to learn the hard way is don't ever go into a game with your waves pre-decided. Every game is going to be different, and as per the codex you don't have to split your army until the beginning of turn one. Every deployment/opponent is going to be different, so adjust your warp bleed accordingly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanx for all the advice, I've decided to build the 1st list with a squad of Fiends and Flamers, I can always add more Fiends later if need be. If anyone if familiar with running a list like this I would appreciate any advice on tactics.
 

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Drop all you big 'uns together and all your lil 'uns together, this forces your opponent to waste some of his shooting (anti-infantry is wasted on MCs, anti-tank is wasted on little guys) and force target priority decisions. No army can drop 5 MCs in 1 turn, so capitalize on that.

You want to get into assault ASAP, wrecking his METAL BAWKSES and killing the infantry inside.
 
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