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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
HQ:
Librarian
Shield, Fear
[100]

Librarian
Shield, Fear
[100]

Elites:
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
Lance, Wings
[175]

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
Lance, Wings
[175]

Troops:
(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Hand Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[175]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Hand Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[175]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Hand Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[175]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[180]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[180]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun, Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[180]

Fast Attack:
Baal Predator
TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
[145]

Baal Predator
TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
[145]

Baal Predator
TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
[145]

Heavy:
Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

[2500]

A friend of mine wants to get into the Lamenters, so I am throwing a list together for him. Thoughts?

EDIT: Stupid FAQ; Other updates
 

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damn that is an intimidating list. I think you should play test it though against other 2500 pts lists. People can just build such nasty lists at that many points. LR spam for instance will really hurt you as well as Long Fang spam and Vulkan Pod lists. Obviously someone will always have a rock to your scissor but my point is your friend should play with the list before investing 600 bones or whatever it will cost to build this beast.
 

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This is so for yourself :laugh:

Well... I like it, TBH it's a little like a scaled up version of my 2000 point mech list, except that I run TL-AC & melta instead of Lascannons & Plasma. I personally chose to run Seth as my HQ - with two Furioso Librarians I see no point in running another Librarian, especially when Razorbacks have no windows for him to shoot/LOS out of :(

But I can confirm that this is solid. My only criticism is your lack of anti AV14. Lascannons & Lance are alright, but you need to shut down AV14 quickly at 2.5K (since this is the points level people bring all sorts of madness) & I think that only melta can do that quickly & reliably enough, infernus pistols don't count since they require you to get so close that their nickname as hairdryers is really quite apt, in fact if this were me I'd drop all those infernus pistols & hand flamers for HK missiles on as many tanks as possible, it's not like you're an army that really wants to get closer than 18'' anyway is it? By putting out circa 8 HKs on turn 1 you might be surprised what you can do to opposition light vehicles.

Have you considered dropping something to grab a 5 man Sternguard in a Razorback, give them 4 or 5 combi-meltas, a powerfist if points allow it, & voila! A reliable tank hunting anti mech unit that is also not wasted against Nids or Orks due to their special ammo.

Dallas
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I swear it is not for me! Honest! My buddy wants to do this list for his Lamenters and I promised him I would circulate it for critique. Anything I get told I pass to him, so advise away!

Thus far, more anti-AV14. Demolishers don't count? :D
 

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Haha, I was joking, I believe you Old Hat.

Well I guess they do... but they hit just slightly better than 1/3 of the time & then you need 5+ to pen on two dice... I dunno, call me daft but I would just prefer to have something that I know is more reliable, I'm just saying that for the sake of a single Baal you can run 3 MM attack bikes, plus I think it's a waste to throw Demolishers at AV14 :)

Dallas
 

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No, demolishers don't count. They're reasonable, but it's like using a pillow in whack a mole - you might get the bastard, but half the time, it'll just soak it up.

If you consider the chance have the hole scatter off, whereas you can just carve it up with twin MM bikes/Tornadoes.

But yeah, there's nothing to stop you doing it, when you MUST do it.

Other than that, I can't recommend anything, I don't run gay angels.



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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, they would be Lamenters, not Blood Angels. Not sure if that is better or worse, honestly. I use my LR Demolishers to crack tanks all the time, but I do have a lot of Melta back-up. Nevertheless, I am wondering if the metagame really demands anti-AV14 in as much abundance. I am trying to recall the last time I saw any at my shop and I am drawing a blank! I think my LR Demolishers may be about it for AV14, as Land Raiders are very uncommon.

However, I will pass it along. I think six Lascannons and 3 Demolisher cannons should be enough to crack open the one or two Land Raiders that might crop up, but he might want to odd Attack Bike or three for variety sake, too.
 

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Instagibbing MEQ's, Nobz, and the like, as well as ensuring AV12 pen is pretty much a must. I must admit, until 5th edition guard came out, I never bothered building an army around melta, but when you're against AV12, you suddenly realise that those 4's with Lascannons and 5's with Missiles don't come up often enough. That was why Leafblower and aircav was so successful, IMHO.

It's still powerful, but now most lists I play around at AV12 based at the least. Luckily, it's not BA mainly, but IG - hence as Elysians and Bike Marines, I tend to do reasonably well, as the local metagame is obviously hinting at a ratio of about 3 meltaguns to every guardsmen.

As to Lamenters, and hoping for a) not to scatter off, b) to roll a 5+ (6 with the lascannon), and then to roll Immobilised/Destroyed, wow... all the best is all I can say ;D



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, our metagame is heavy on the footsloggers and AV13 and under. Little to no AV14, at all. Again, as a Guard player, I bring it, but never at 2500. It just isn't viable to run Land Raiders with said ratio of Guardsmen to Meltas. Makes it too big of a liability for a cheap suicide unit to negate 400+ points of stuff. Russ tanks and Battlewagons are vulnerable from the sides, which being fast (with Scout and Outflank, on the Baals), it should be able to get those lovely side-armor shots anyhow.

The main problem I see with Attack Bikes is that they are no armor and the obvious target for anti-MEQ firepower that might not be as useful for anti-tank (e.g. Battle Cannons). Land Speeders might be a solid alternative. They can get a nice cover save and sport some nasty guns and have the option to Deep Strike. I think of the options, those might be the best. I hate that they compete with Baals, though.
 

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If you check your Bike list (nudge nudge), you'll see i've also recommended 4x LS MMHF over 6 MM bikes as well - not just for the obvious benefits they have (only weakness is Autocannons over the bikes, especially hydra's - MM bikes less so as they have 3+ Armour, but S7 eats Open Topped AV10 skimmers like no tomorrow) - but also for the fact that they can take on Green Tide and Tervigon Spam far more easily than Bikes with their Twin Linked Bolters and MM can do.

Edit: ah, of course, I forget that Fast Attack BA is more convoluted than IG.



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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Well, I think that they would work better overall. I will see what my buddy thinks. A pair of them over a single Baal might be a fair trade-off for versatility. Send them after any hard targets.

EDIT:
Here is a tentative list:

HQ:
Librarian
Shield, Fear
[100]

Librarian
Shield, Fear
[100]

Elites:
Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
Lance, Wings
[175]

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
Lance, Wings
[175]

Troops:
(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

(5) Assault Squad
Meltagun
Razorback
Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun
[165]

Fast Attack:
(3) Land Speeder Tornado
Multimelta, Heavy Flamer
[210]

Baal Predator
TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters, HK
[155]

Baal Predator
TL Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters, HK
[155]

Heavy:
Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

Vindicator
Dozer Blade
[150]

[2500]
 
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