[admiraldick]

Hey everyone. circumstances have meant that i basically haven't played the game since late 4th Ed. but times are changing and i need to put an army together. i have an enormous Chaos army of every colour and hue that i've been collecting since 2nd Ed. but i've found the current Codex: CSM to be very uninspiring, do i don't want to play it anymore. conversely, i've found the new SM books to be a lot more exciting.

i've been mulling over playing Alpha Legion using C: SM or Black Legion using C: SW, but both would require a huge amount of time, money and energy to convert enough models to keep to the theme. but with the release of the Blood Angels book i've come up with a much simpler list for me put together. but its not complete, so i'd like Heresy Online to cast its collective eyes over my current list and give me some tips and pointers. without any further unnecessary explanation the World Eaters:

HQ

Avatar of Fury (The Sanguinor)

Kharn The Betrayer (Gabriel Seth)

Elites

2x Warcallers (Sanguinary Priest) w/ Plasma Pistol and Power Fist

Troops

8x Berzerkers (Assault Marines w/out Jump Packs) w/ Plasma Pistol and Asp. Champ. w/ Plasma Pistol, Power Fist and Combat Shield

Rhino

8x Berzerkers (Assault Marines w/out Jump Packs) w/ Plasma Pistol and Asp. Champ. w/ Plasma Pistol, Power Fist and Combat Shield

Rhino

5x Gladiatorii (Death Company) w/ Jump Packs, Power Weapons and Plasma Pistol

Blood Priest (Lemartes[i/])

Berzerker Dreadnought (Death Company Dreadnought[i/]) w/ Blood Talons

Heavy Support
Storm Bird (Storm Raven) w/ Hurricane Bolters

Total: 1843pts

and there you have it. that's the list so far. i'd like it to be 2000pts, so that i can have reasonable sized battles or pick and choose some units for smaller games. any comments or criticisms welcome.

 

[Katie Drake]

Well you've got a good start, but I think you're really going to be in for a world of hurt against competitive armies. Is this list meant for more casual play or for tournaments? In casual play you can probably get away with running both Seth and the Sanguinor, but you'll likely want to spend what's left of the 2,000 points on another scoring unit if possible. One popular choice is to take a unit of 5 Assault Marines and put them in a bare bones Razorback for a total cost of 120 points. Since you have a World Eaters theme going on a Razorback probably isn't ideal for this, but you could easily take a Rhino instead and upgrade the Sergeant with a power weapon or something.

Best of luck!

Katie D

 

[admiraldick]

its pretty much entirely for casual play. the only 'competitive' armies i'll be facing will be ones that are off duty, so to speak. i'm not really much of a Tournament player, i'm just interested in having an army that's fun to play with, in keeping with the theme and good to collect.

looks like another troops choice is going to be the best option.

 

[Chumbalaya]

Expensive characters, Plasma over infernus, 50 point single wound models (with Rage and non-scoring to boot), Powerfists on single wound ICs, and no real support at range for your 3 fast vehicles.

It's pretty bad to put it bluntly. Rectify the above issues and I think you'll be just fine.

I like the idea of a mech army with Dreads and Storm Ravens. All it needs is some optimizing, losing the expensive junk (Sanguinor and jump packs DC all sporting power weapons, having them on foot with a few PW/TH works fine) and adding in more mech would be great.

 

[Katie Drake]

It's likely that the OP is trying to create an army that operates similarly to how the World Eaters do, Chum. Chaos Marines don't use infernus pistols and World Eaters aren't much interested in long range firepower. This is a fluff/themed list for friendlies.

 

[Chumbalaya]

Actually, back in the day Khorne was big on the heavy weapons and long range fire. It's only the past few editions where he and the World Eaters have been Flanderized into "hurp durp must CC, rawr".

Compact meltas (let's them get another CC attack, w00t) and ranged fire (crack open the METAL BAWKSES so they can collect some skulls) would fit quite well.

 

[Katie Drake]

Actually, back in the day Khorne was big on the heavy weapons and long range fire. It's only the past few editions where he and the World Eaters have been Flanderized into "hurp durp must CC, rawr".

Compact meltas (let's them get another CC attack, w00t) and ranged fire (crack open the METAL BAWKSES so they can collect some skulls) would fit quite well.

Yeah... that was several editions ago, though.

 

[admiraldick]

Expensive characters,

i can hold my hand up to that. but as i'm not interested in winning at all costs or maxing out my options at the expense of theme, i'm not too worried about that. i could switch out the 'Avatar' and 'Kharn' for cheaper HQ choices, but the effect would be lost as well.

Plasma over infernus,

i wish i could make plasma weapons cheaper so that they were more of a reasonable choice. but sadly that is not something i can do.

as the theme of the list is World Eaters, plasmas stand head and shoulders over infernus pistols, ergo if i were to switch them out i might as well simply play as Blood Angels.

50 point single wound models (with Rage and non-scoring to boot),

i added jump packs to the 'Gladiatorii' to further differentiate them from the regular 'Berzerker' units (otherwise it could end up being a pretty dull army to play, irrespective of whether is wins or looses). however, i'm man enough to admit that it is quite a points sink on a unit that can't hold objectives (i guess i figured that i wasn't likely to be trying to make them hold objectives anyway). so i think i'll re-write the list to drop the Jump Packs and bump up the numbers somewhat.

Powerfists on single wound ICs,

don't judge too harshly, as i stated in my first post, i haven't really played 5th Ed, so those are exactly the subtle nuances that i've not yet got to grips with.

i felt that the army lacked anti-vehicle guns so, it was probably a smart move to add in liberal numbers of Power Fists. however, i could certainly switch it for something cheaper. which would you recommend of a CCW, a Power Weapon and a Lightning Claw?

and no real support at range for your 3 fast vehicles.

i'm not really sure what else i can put into it to fulfill that role without negating theme. what would you suggest?

It's pretty bad to put it bluntly.

well, each to there own. you're the first person so far to say that it was a 'bad' list from any of the forums i've posted it on, everyone else has said it was more on the side of 'good' but could do with improvement.

Actually, back in the day Khorne was big on the heavy weapons and long range fire.

i'm all in favour of a Khornate army that works well at range and in assault. the only proviso would be that they be (almost) exclusively anti-infantry. even if Khorne lets them have anti-vehicle weapons, he won't be impressed by their offerings (blood and skulls are all that he's interested in). so the social stigma on being the guy with the meltagun/lascannon would mean that i suspect that most World Eaters would prefer not to.

Compact meltas (let's them get another CC attack, w00t) and ranged fire (crack open the METAL BAWKSES so they can collect some skulls) would fit quite well.

i get what you're saying, but i think that it would simply be at too greater cost.

 

[Dallas_Drake]

I have a 2000 point World Eaters (C:BA) list and I can give you any advice you want regarding modeling/converting.

For specific questions/links etc you can PM me or just post here;

http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crusade/index.php?showforum=28

I warn you, this is about twice as expensive as just buying the models for a standard list. For example, I had to buy 2 Assault Squad boxes, 10 Red Scorpion FW heads/bodies and 10 FW chain axes just for one unit, that's a pricey investment... but if you're going to do it you want to do it well!

I currently run this list: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63934

No pics but I can take some if wanted, just painting the attack bikes now as they're a new addition.

The Razorback is a conversion, I know they were introduced in M36 but I want one and it suits my list. If I really want I can just swap it out for a Predator but it's not a big deal. I'd rather have the scoring unit! My advice is: don't compromise on game play just because you're doing something different.

Frankly, you can run whatever you want on whatever theme, who says not?

Want mass jump packs? Go for it. Fits perfectly

Want infernus pistols? Go for it. Plasma pistols are bobbins anyway.

Want mech? Go for it. Fits perfectly.

DC as Berzerkers? Pretty much the same thing. Reclusiarch counts as your Captain; why not? Librarian? Why not, WE used them too before turning traitor.

So long as the army isn't 'all' razorspam then it's cool. Model it and convert it & it will be a fantastically unique army. And if anyone gives you beef tell them it's your army and you'll do what you want, if anyone gets fussy tell them it's just your own chapter (that shuts most smart arses up).

World Eaters have the advantage of starting out pretty orthodox; around the time Angron was found they were just like any other legion, just with a preference for getting close up (like say BA or SW). Fast forward to the Istvaan V masacre and the legion has (due in part to worshipping Khorne but also because of the implants Angron ordered) decended into a very melee orientated army.

How you want to represent it is key & nobody can tell you it's 'right' or 'wrong'. Bottom line - it's your money, your time, your army. Do whatever you want!

For a list of pre-heresy units/weapons check that link above but don't get too bogged down, not even GW follow their own fluff (Vindicators & Predator Annihilators in the C:CSM book but no Speeders/Attack Bikes!? Whatever!).

Message me if you want any further help.

Good luck.

Dallas

 

[Deuce]

I love Heresy Era lists!

Keep in mind BA can take LRs as DTs so you can fulfill your long range support that way while also getting your assault troops on foot.

The way I think about berzerkers are that the BA accompanied by Priests is enough. I know the DC are even nuttier but were there "Berzerker" units in the Heresy WE legion anyway or was that a name given to all WE assault troops because of the implants and psycho engineering? In other words, I don't see any necessity to use the over priced DC at all.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

 

[Dallas_Drake]

DC are fun though

I know the DC are even nuttier but were there "Berzerker" units in the Heresy WE legion anyway or was that a name given to all WE assault troops because of the implants and psycho engineering?

Terminator Squad Gauste
Terminator Squad Morght
Veteran Squad Dhauske
Veteran Squad Wronde
Veteran Squad Darkhe
Tactical Squad Barsk
Tactical Squad Darkt
Berzerker Squad Wrathe http://www.pa-sy.com/hhccg/images/wrathe.jpg
Assault Squad Fleiste
Assault Squad Karst
Assault Squad Harle
Assault Squad Stolle
Assault Squad Gharte
Assault Squad Kaarg
Assault Squad Karst
Assault Squad Lhorke
Assault Squad Wrack
Assault Squad Skhran
Assault Squad Klatte
Assault Support Squad Sargh
Assault Support Squad Khorst
Bike Squadron Krast
Attack Bike Squadron Keth
Attack Bike Squadron Tyche
Jetbike Squadron Grast
Land Speeder Squadron Wroath
Land Speeder Squadron Sairkh
Land Speeder Squadon Mahrke
Recon Squad Slearne
Scout Squad Drask
Heavy Support Squad Skane
Dreadnought Lorg
Dreadnought Dhort
Dreadnought Poarth

There are different opinions but AFAIK once a World Eater had the surgery they 'became' Berzerkers. Visions of Heresy is quite clear about this, though maybe the Horus Heresy series will cover this in more detail? I do know that Kharn came across as quite calm and civil astartes in the HH book.

 

[Lord Reevan]

I like the list. It's got a lot of character that's for sure

I would change the fists off the priests though. ICs with I1 die first no matter what. I dunno how many times a tactical squad have killed calgar for that reason.

Also you have an awful lot of plasma. I'm not saying drop it all, but I would recommend dropping it off the guys with other equipment like the sergeants. if that things blows up in their face you lose the fist as well. keep them on the normal guys instead. you can still have a lot of high power shots coming out of them then.

For anti tank would a Dreadnought with lascannon/ML be world eater enough? the whole ability to walk forward guns blazing and all that jazz?