Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I will soon come in possession of a lot of Daemons. Now I can finally play games of 1500 and above. I figured I can make an effective list at 2000 pts at the most. Keep in mind, I do not have much else in my possession besides what is in this list. I know there are a few options that could be better to get, but Im gonna wait until that 2nd wave comes out to buy anything else. For now this is my 2000 pt list:

HQ

Bloodthirster: 275 pts
-Unholy Might
-Blessing of the Blood God

Skulltaker: 160 pts
-Chairot

Kherald: 145 pts
-Unholy Might
-Juggernaught
-Chaos Icon

Elites

(3) Flamers: 105 pts

(3) Flamers: 105 pts

Troops

(5) Plaguebearers: 75 pts

(5) Plaguebearers: 75 pts

(12) Bloodletters: 197 pts
-Instrument of Chaos

(12) Bloodletters: 197 pts
-Instrument of Chaos

(12) Bloodletters: 192 pts
-Kherald joins this squad

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince: 235 pts
-MoN
-Iron Hide
-Daemonic Flight
-Unholy Might
-Cloud of Flies
-Noxious Touch

Daemon Prince: 235 pts
-MoN
-Iron Hide
-Daemonic Flight
-Unholy Might
-Cloud of Flies
-Noxious Touch

Total: 1996 pts

Wave 1:
-Bloodthirster
-Both Daemon Princes
-Skulltaker
-Kherald w/ 1 Bloodletters

Wave 2:
-Plaguebearers
-Rest of Bloodletters
-Flamers

MCs go in to take out tanks and transports. Skulltaker goes after opposing MCs and HQs. Kherald joins a squad of Bloodletters and helps along other Bloodletters onto the battle field. Bloodletters and Flamers in charge of taking out opposing infantry. Plaguebearers.....well the usual, grab objectives, in kill games hold opposing infantry in combat for bloodletters.

Other models I have to do possible tweaks or changes to my list:
-Lord of Change/Fateweaver
-3 Screamers
-Masque
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Its a nice list, not a maxed out one but it'll do you well for friendly games.

I dont really understand the purpose of khorne heralds- having some S6-7 power weapon attacks isnt really that impressive in a unit that has a whole load of S4-5 power weapons in it already... it doesnt really add anything that you need that spending the same points just increasing the size of the unit wouldnt manage.
Because of that I wouldnt bother having him in the list at all (my jugg HoK sits on a shelf), instead I would use the masque... I really dont like the masque but adding her in could help out your army: the biggest problem of bloodletters (other then not being fleet) is that they dont have assault grenades. Putting masque in the 2nd wave means she'll have the chance to enter play and use pavane to pull enemy units out of cover so that you can charge without worrying about about the loss of initiative. Additionally you can also use her to set the enemy up for the flamers, especially if the flamers didnt quite come down on target.

If you do that you'll have a few spare points... that means either you can include another icon (on a different unit), mebbe on some PBs and placing them in the first wave to try to draw firepower towords their icon and away from other things. Alternately you could include the screamers; they do well for late game objective blocking or go hunt the stronger enemy tanks- put them in the centre of your force and any tanks the enemy sends your way to counter parts of your lists expose themselves to easy destruction (means you dont have to dedicate the MCs to killing cheap vehicles that they are frankly better then.. like rhinos).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
I like the BT and big stompy Princes.

The Kherald don't really do it for me though, as Tim/Steve explained.

Beyond the big stompy flyng MCs, you don't have a lot of mobility. Flamers can fly, but they're pretty fragile. Bloodletters are very smashy, but have a tough time getting into HtH due to their slowness.

You need to be able to shut down mech armies and catch up to more mobile armies, otherwise they can maneuver around and keep you at arm's length while shooting you away. Fiends, Tzeralds with bolt, DPs with bolt, Flesh Hounds, Sheralds on chariots and the like are all ways to bring in more mobile or shooty units that can give you that leg up against mech.

As is, you pretty much live or die on the BT and Princes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,539 Posts
Skulltaker: 160 pts
-Chairot

Kherald: 145 pts
-Unholy Might
-Juggernaught
-Chaos Icon
I think it'd be best to drop Skulltaker altogether and give the Herald the Chariot. Give him Unholy Might and Fury of Khorne (to deal with annoying Dreadnoughts and similar) and go to town. You'll have a W4 3+ save protected mini-monstrous creature with S7 and I6 on the charge, plus Rending. This guy's job is basically to chew through infantry and hopefully absorb some shooting that would be heading the way of your Troops instead. Some people might even ignore him to begin with until you tear one of his squads to pieces. The Herald will then shoot up your opponent's target priority list.

Elites

(3) Flamers: 105 pts

(3) Flamers: 105 pts
These guys are nice, though I've found a single squad is good enough. I'm not personally a fan of suicide squads, though the amount of damage that these guys can cause is absolutely incredible if circumstances work out.

Troops

(5) Plaguebearers: 75 pts

(5) Plaguebearers: 75 pts

(12) Bloodletters: 197 pts
-Instrument of Chaos

(12) Bloodletters: 197 pts
-Instrument of Chaos

(12) Bloodletters: 192 pts
-Kherald joins this squad
The Plaguebearers are probably okay, though I don't think a sixth member in each unit would hurt. It's no big deal either way, though.

The Bloodletters are also fine, though I'm not convinced that they need an Instrument. Typically Bloodletters don't need upgrades and do just fine.

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince: 235 pts
-MoN
-Iron Hide
-Daemonic Flight
-Unholy Might
-Cloud of Flies
-Noxious Touch

Daemon Prince: 235 pts
-MoN
-Iron Hide
-Daemonic Flight
-Unholy Might
-Cloud of Flies
-Noxious Touch

These guys are hella expensive but they do kick righteous amounts of ass. Combined with the Bloodthirster and the sleeper threat that is the Herald on a Chariot, you have four extremely hard hitting units backed up by some very angry Troops choices. This list's main weakness is a way to deal with mechanized armies. Since you're not into purchasing more units until the second wave hits (nothing wrong with that, mind you) there's not a ton that can be done about it other than perhaps squeezing in the Screamers to fill in the points saved from removing Skulltaker.

Hope this helps!

Katie D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
like everyone is saying just drop the kherald. he is on a juggernaut so he will be running around easily getting picked off. and it if comes down to kill points he is one of the easiest ones to take out. I would also the chariot for the taker. Stick him in a unit if you want to use him. he is pretty mean just make sure he gets in there. do like the instruments on the bloodletters they have won me so many things before when I just wiff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Tim/Steve, the idea of the Masque is interesting. It will definitely be something I might try for fun, but could easily be a game changer and major help to my bloodletters. As usual though, the main problem with Masque is lack of independent character.

Katie, Ill think about that variation of the Kherald. Definitely sounds effective, but I want to see how Skulltaker plays out since I have never used him and he sounds good. Reason for separating the Flamers is just so my opponent has to choose between the two for targetting purposes. Most likely they will still be some what close to each other targeting maybe the same unit, but I want the flexibility to spread the damage. Finally I have definitely wanted to try out the Screamers, a simple 48 pts could be put in if I do have just the Kherald with your suggested upgrades without Skulltaker.

Thanks for all the info everyone. I know I am lacking in the anti-mechanized army lists. Although I usually play against Nids, Imperial Guard (Valk/Vendetta Heavy), Blood Angels (Death Comp Jump Packs), Grey Knights, and mixed Eldar. So overall not that much with the usual mech lists. In theory, the hardest armies to beat should be the Imp Guard and Eldar. I should be okay with my list at least for testing, plus my opponents have never played against Daemons, so thats a little edge. Probably gonna tweak a little here and there in what you all have suggested to give me more options and ideas.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Skulltaker got massively nerfed by the 5th edition rulebook- he is priced (pts) for his special rending rule to work on the 'to hit' dice not the 'to wound'... so before he wounded anything non-vehicle with 50% of his attacks and then had the odd hit that needed to wound (but still ignored armour due to his power weapon)... but now he rends on a 4+ to wound he has to hit and then wound as well. Thats made him about 15% worse for no benefit.. and the nerf gets much greater against tougher targets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It also hurts that most characters you want dead are Eternal Warriors, barring a handful of marines and all Tyranids.
Yeah, but the army I play against the most is Tyranids actually. 2nd most Imp Guard and 3rd Marines. Which I believe are the 3 armies with the least amount of eternal warrior models.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Against nids skulltaker is immense, but I wouldnt use him on the chariot. If it increased his speed it would be great but as it is it just gives him an extra wound over a juggernaught and forces him to act alone. Being able to join units means he cannot get picked out by shooting- and any good nid army should be able to pump out a lot of shooting. IG and SM certainly will be able to deal with him if they choose to (they might be forced to decide who to shoot if you cluster skulltaker near bloodletters or the thirster).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ill probably tweak my list a little later to take out Skulltaker except when I face Nids. When making this list I kept in mind that Nids are my primary opponent. So against Imp Guard, Marines and all others Ill think about either just getting rid of Skulltaker and beafing up my Kherald. Or maybe consider putting in the Lord of Change and switching up my list a lot to add him in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Some people may not like him but to me the Lord of Change is freaking awesome. Granted I've only used him against Tau and plaguemarines, but in both he kicked some serious ass. He's expensive yes, but there is a reason for it. he has 4 wounds and a 3+ INVULNERABLE!!!! and already comes with flight (making him quick) and Bolt (making him a tank eater). Pick up Legion with him and you can then use daemonic gaze against troops as well as using bolt against tanks/vehicles. And with a BS of 5, he is rarely missing.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
List tweaking depending on specific enemies is often frowned upon- the mark of a good list is that it can face everyone without having to switch everything round... and sometimes it just makes it really unfair: for example a SM player knowing they are about to play daemons can drop all the plasma/melta/lascannon and vindicators in their army and exchange it for dreadnaughts and daemonhunters inquisitors/inquisitor lords with psycannons and mystics. No daemon army would ever beat a SM army if the SM player properly optimises their list to play daemons.


Lords of change are quite fun but if you are going to tool him up then consider taking fateweaver instead. Personally I dont think he's worth the cost but you get all the upgrades and have a 3++ with a reroll (plus giving it to the rest of your units within 6"). Rather then a ~300 LoC that can threaten the enemy you have a 333pt gamechanger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
i just think for more points with weaker stats he's just not worth it. Especially if you fail one of your rerolls. (which I did :( when i proxy'd my LOC as fateweaver, very very upset).

And swapping out for 2 heralds of tzeentch. While it may be cheaper, you are also swapping it out for something which has weaker combat stats (not that it should be getting into combat, but the LOC isn't that bad at combat situation depending, which adds to his versatility, the herald cannot say the same).

The LOC also has a better BS meaning he's hitting more often and a higher toughness meaning he's resisting more damage.

But as Tim/Steve said the best thing is trying to find balance within your team, and furthering that point balance to how your play style works. It's probably why I don't get on with daemonettes, yet others do.

I would however highly recommend the LOC. The guy does cost a lot yes, but he can do SOOO much as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
I really like Skulltaker especially against Nids where he is a machine. He's not that expensive and on a juggernaut hes not going to be a liability against anyone else.

Guard and Eldar will be tough matchups for you, those fast skimmers will be a nightmare to bring down. I guess your winged monstrous creatures will be your best bet. Just what ever you do do not spread out too much. As an Eldar player myself that is exactly what they're looking for to use their speed to manoeuvre, isolated and kill part of your army bit at a time. It's rough on Daemons because they get a head star on isolating your units.

Aramoro
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top