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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm thinking of starting a Space Wolves army, and this was my first idea for a 2000 point list:

HQ

Rune Priest


ELITE

10 Wolf Guard:
5 w/combi-meltas
2 w/terminator armor, and CML
3 w/powerfist and combi-flamers (A)


Dreadnought w/2 TL autocannons


TROOP

10 Grey Hunters w/2 plasma rifles, drop pod, power weapon

5 Grey Hunters w/flamer, razorback, power weapon (+ wolf guard A)

5 Grey Hunters w/flamer, razorback, power weapon (+ wolf guard A)

9 Grey Hunters w/flamer, rhino, powerfist (+ wolf guard A)

9 Grey Hunters w/flamer, rhino, powerfist (+ rune priest)


FAST

Land Speeder w/2 multi-meltas

Land Speeder w/2 multi-meltas


HEAVY

Vindicator w/siege shield

Vindicator w/dozer blade

6 Long Fangs w/5 missile launchers

..

The first 6 wolf guard in the group are together. The rest are distributed into units as shown.

How's it look?
 

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So, are those Terminators waking? Why even have more expesive WGTS if the cyclones are doing all the work?

Plasma Guns? No melta? What do you do against armor?

Dual MM Speeder? Pretty mono-task for an AV10 skimmer.

Fangs > any Heavy Support pick. Cheap missile launchers are great. Also bringing just 1 unit is a good way to get them killed, it's only 6 marines. If you want S10 killy doom with a 24" threat range, get TWC.

Wolf Scouts? Unreliable, easy to avoid/mitigate.

I think it needs some pretty serious work. If you want to go mech, 2-3 Rhinos full of GHs backed by Razors, Speeders, Dreads and Vindies would work, but it seems awfully Ultramariney without anything too good and Wolfy. I'd go for the mixed mech deal, namely GH in Rhinos/Razorbacks with Dread support, Speeders and TWC to run up behind and help up close, and Fangs to provide supporting fire.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Av14 will eat you alive. I would advice droping your current loadout of GHs and replacing them with 2-3 units of 9 GH and 1 unit of 8 GH and fitting them out with standard, MotW, melta and maybe a PW if you are up for it. I would also include 1 PF CM WG in each unit. After that I would drop the vindis and replace them with LF ML squads each with a plaslas razors. I would also drop the scouts and the mortis. If you want some real CC punch I would throw in some TWC, I don't use them but that's just because there are no models for them at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
To Chumbalaya:

I play against a lot of IG, and I wanted to give the termies a 3+ invulnerable save, to see if they'll survive longer. I might drop the storm shields if it doesn't seem to make a difference. I like feel of the unit, and want to give them a try.

I really want something to move in front of the razorbacks, to help obscure them, and vindicators seemed like a nice choice.

The 10 man squad is for sitting on objectives. I gave them the plasmas because they seemed like the best choice for a unit that's guarding an objective. I could give them a rhino, but would have to cut something else out.

The scouts and skimmers are for melting hard to reach targets. I like them because they're cheap enough that it won't matter if they're destroyed. I was thinking of replacing the scouts with another melta speeder. Would that be better?

I like the 5 men + wolf guard combo, since 10 guys + wolf guard won't fit in a rhino, and 9 + wolf guard don't get the second gun.

What's a TWC? Thunder Wolf Cavalry? How do they inflict S10 hits at 24in range? Or do you mean something else?


To General Ahab:

That's not really what I had in mind for the army. I could include more meltas or combi-meltas, but I don't really want to load up with nothing besides melta, as I face hordes a lot more than I face armor 14/14/14.


Thanks for the help everyone! I'll think it over.
 

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Yup, 43 got it. TWC are delightful.

Instead of paying 60 points for the Termie armor and storm shield, you can simply use normal PAWG to suck up wounds. Stick to cover and life will be swell. Wolf Guard get pricey quick, the best way to run them is efficient and streamlined.

Vindicators will draw fire. I'd say Rhinos/Razors would do fine with smoke or Storm Caller keeping them safe. Plus you can fit in more Fangs.

MM/HF Speeders are the way to go for cheap mobile tank busters. Tack on the HF for some extra versatility. I like TWC myself for the huge reach, survivability and potency in HtH.

5 GH and a WG isn't very survivable, so the added combat gear really isn't worth it. If you take Razors, don't bother kitting out for combat. The 9+WG or 10 thing really depends on how you want to use them. I go for 10 men to keep the dual melta and use TWC for combat, while others may prefer the more self-contained (if less efficient) 9 plus WG config.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I would actually say you should use both TWC and the WG GH unit. That way you will have a viable backup in the event the cav are neutralized.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I've updated the list, to follow some of the suggestions.

I've dropped the scouts, and the terminator armor/storm shields from the wolf guard (except the WG with the CMLs). In their place I've added some more grey hunters in two of the units, a drop pod/pw/melta bombs for the plasma squad (melta bombs are so it's difficult to tank shock them off objectives), and another land speeder.

I'll consider using TWC as soon as there's a model that can represent them that isn't $40 each.

Thanks again for all the help!
 

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in the future, instead of editing the original list, can you make a new post with the new list? that way it's easier to see what you changed and it can help other people who read the thread, since all the comments make no sense after the list has been changed.

regarding the list shown in the OP atm, I'd still make a few changes:

- give the speeders MM and HF. 2 MM is excessive and makes speeders a one trick pony. with a HF you can suddenly threaten everything and will make them more dangerous. There is the possibility that you'll miss with the MM when it really matters, but then you have the rest of the army to help out.

- I'd switch vindicators for more long fangs. The reasoning is:
1) Vindicators take a lot of fire and can be rendered useless with a single weapon destroyed or immobilized result (either you'll have no gun, or you won't be able to get into the small range)

2) your list right now is very much a short range shooty list. What you want to do is pop things out of their transports, then rapid fire them with your hunters and take the charge or charge them yourself if they're weak. The thing is then if you're gonna be shooting S10 large blasts that can scatter you don't want to have your guys anywhere near. If you plan on including TWC, even worse since S10 is the only thing that can instakill them. I'd go for more long fangs with MLs (they're amazing and cheap, and can shoot anything) which will also provide target saturation.

- the pod unit will die. I see the idea, drop in and rapid fire plasma, but the thing is most things you want to rapid fire plasma to death will be either in transports (termies in a LR), which you might not be able to pop in time, or in cover (broadsides). I'd much rather have a more focused force. put the pod squad in a rhino too and rush him to midfield with the rest. You can even keep the plasmas if you want (although I'd go with melta)

- I like the idea of the wolf guard on foot with the 2 CML termies but I don't think it'll work well in this list. It works very well if you take logan and fill the board with units like this which are on top scoring, but otherwise all they'll do is provide the enemy with targets for his anti infantry guns on turn one before he has popped your transports. what you could do is, take the squad as it is but give them a rhino or a razorback, and put the termies with CML in the long fang units. That way you add more punch to those, keep the missiles, give a little bit of CC protection to the fangs, and keep the combi melta death squad but in a rhino so they can go hunt whatever they want.

- you need to give more melta to your GH squads. As it is you're relying on the speeders which WILL get popped.

as far as I remember the list before the edit, you're getting there, but there's still a few places where you can optimize your points spent better.

Looking forward to the next version,

43
 

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if you have a ten man squad in a drop pod you can't put a wolf guard in there.

i dont know why your giving vindicators dozer blades instead of siege shields.

also if your going against horde why double MM speeders. actually, forget that, why double MM speeders at all. 10 points cheaper to add a heavy flamer and it's more versatile. plus unless you move 6" you can only shoot one and that takes away from the point of it being a fast vehicle.

i used to give a wolf guard a power weapon but it's only S4 and WS4 so 4+ to hit and 4+ to wound. its likely you wont do anything at all with it. up grade to a frost blade or give him a fist.

i would switch the vindi's for fangs. they kill horde from farther away, which is where you want to be, far away.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sorry, in the future I'll repost the list, so you can see the changes more easily.

I didn't realize that Space Wolf drop pods only hold 10 guys. Don't Space Marine drop pods hold 12? Thanks for the heads up. I like having the plasmaguns in there, so I dropped the wolf guard (merging him with the CML squad).

The point of the squad is not only to drop in and fire plasma, but also to have the option to drop on an objective and sit on it. Yeah, they might die, but that's just the way things go.

A land speeder with a single MM would miss far too often for my taste. The rest of the army is good enough at anti-horde. If I gave meltas to the grey hunters, then I'd either have to use 1 melta each, or drop the wolf guard, drastically changing the list.

Personally, I hate giving tactical squads meltaguns, because it doesn't fit well with the rest of their abilities. They should be taking out hordes with bolters and flamers, not rolling 2 dice to see if they do anything to a vehicle, and then doing nothing else until next turn. That's just my preference though.

I like vindicators. Besides their S10 AP2 lg blast gun, they also draw a lot of fire away from the transports. Again, that's just my personal preference.

Thanks for the help everyone!
 

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Plasma isn't versatile enough and simply too pricey to waste an entire squad on.

You take melta because it makes your unit versatile. Not every army will have something you can ping bolters off of, especially if they're all hiding in METAL BAWKSES. Meltas give your unit the ability to crack open anything.

Vindies have an impressive gun, but 1 weapon destroyed result makes it useless. The short range can also make it easy for your opponent to line up side armor shots.
 

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Plasma isn't versatile enough and simply too pricey to waste an entire squad on.

You take melta because it makes your unit versatile. Not every army will have something you can ping bolters off of, especially if they're all hiding in METAL BAWKSES. Meltas give your unit the ability to crack open anything.

Vindies have an impressive gun, but 1 weapon destroyed result makes it useless. The short range can also make it easy for your opponent to line up side armor shots.
and a good player can counter act these things if he is aware of it. side armor is easy enough to hide where ever you are (except CC duh lol) and he does have the multi melta speeders. would it be more versatile if he traded the vindicators for fangs and switched to meltas, then traded a MM for a heavy flamer on the speeders, yeah sure. but he said something about facing mostly horde and is planning around that.

i think it'll work fine for what he is planning.
 
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