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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings all,

So I'm trying to run a semi fluffy FT list that will still be fun and can win. I have developed a core so far but I'm coming up short and don't know where to put those last points and could use some advice.

HQ: Seth 160
Astorath 220

Troops: DC (9)- Fist, T Hammer, Power weapon x2 265
+Rhino with Ex Armor 65

Assault Squad (10) with JPs-SGT with Power Sword and melta bombs, melta gun and flamer 265

Tac Squad- SGT with Power weapon-flamer and Las cannon 195
+ razor back- las cannon and twin linked plasma gun- ex armor-105

Elites- Furiso Dread- blood talons, extra armor, heavy flamer - 150
+ drop pod-35

Sang Priest- with Jump Pack and Corbulo 180

Honor Guard- Blood Champ, Power fist, l claw - 175
+ rhino- ex armor-65

Total 1840
What else could I/should I do with that last 160??? Part of me feels like I need more bodies on the table. I have a razorback model I need to put together and would need to get the parts for a twin linked assault cannon. I could always order a Baal Pred from my LGS since alot of people swear by them.
So what recommendtations do you have? I have not used any of the named characters in this list yet in any games. I have use Meph and DC Tycho. Both have disappointed (though Meph's failure was my fault for putting him into CC with things like mega nobz and power claws.)
I get the feeling I'm doing too much on the character end and spending too many points there. I do like the idea of Asto since he can buff nearly everything in my list.
Suggestions???
 

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I would either go shooting heavy or assault heavy... this feels like it's trying to do both and as a result won't do either very well.

Three Rhino chassis on the board *should* get popped turn 1. The Furioso can't assault the turn he drops and then he's only got the blood talons... which are cool, but not much good vs mech. So he'll get popped turn 2. You just don't have anything to shut down your enemy's guns.

Astoroth, Seth, and Corbulo are too much points in characters...
 

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Sorry for the double post, but here's an example I put up a while back of a semi-mech BA list - It's 2K, but you could drop a Razorback squad for 1850 and still have a good list...

  • Libby - Jump Pack
    -Assault Squad - 2 Meltas, sgt has Twin LC
  • Sanguinary Priest - PW + Melta Pistol
    -Assault Squad - 2 Meltas, sgt has Thunderhammer
  • 4x Razorback Assault Squads - TL Las
  • 3x Rifleman Dreads
  • 3x Speeders (Typhoon + Multi Melta)

My thoughts were, since it was a fun list, to put in the bare minimum ammt of firepower support and then run a couple of squads of jumpers. That's why you have 4 Razorbacks, 3 Riflemen, and 3 Typhoons... so I have 10 ranged threats every turn... which will keep me in the fight vs mech armies, and should help to drop the Nid big bugs... The Libby and Priest squads are there for Decent of Angels fun....
 

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Alright, lets see what can be suggested to give you idea's for this list without trying to push a complete and utter rebuild of something boring and/or unfluffy for what your aiming for.

HQ: Seth 160
Astorath 220
A personal rule I've always gone by when it comes to HQ's is never spend more than 15% of your total points on them. This helps to prevent your army from becoming to top heavy and overwhelmed from the start.

At 2k, 15% would mean 300 points and your using 380. Not terrible, its 19%, about a fifth of your total points; so I am going to suggest dropping one of these two guys, preferably Seth because at least Astorath is faster and does not have to (forget if he can or not) join or hide near another unit and make it more expensive.

Troops: DC (9)- Fist, T Hammer, Power weapon x2 265
+Rhino with Ex Armor 65
For this unit I would say cut down to eight, swap the hammer out for a fist (assuming its more points then your spending more for what is essentially a powerfist) and I would very much advice swapping the rhino out for a storm raven.

That'll up the number of ranged threats you can produce and will allow you to make use of some of those extra points.

Assault Squad (10) with JPs-SGT with Power Sword and melta bombs, melta gun and flamer 265
I'd suggest a powerfist over the weapon and bombs, and doubling up on special or heavy weapons where possible helps to increase their overall effectiveness.

So if your key on the power weapon, than I would suggest a pair of flamers; if you go the fist then I'd suggest a pair of meltaguns.

Tac Squad- SGT with Power weapon-flamer and Las cannon 195
+ razor back- las cannon and twin linked plasma gun- ex armor-105
Actually I rather like this squad so I say leave it as is, maybe consider going twin linked lascannons for greater effect.

Elites- Furiso Dread- blood talons, extra armor, heavy flamer - 150
+ drop pod-35
Consider the magna grapple, possibly over the heavy flamer. Its not like this guy can assault on the turn he comes in, but you never know when you'll make some insane rolls and pull something into his reach. Did that once to a raider full of incubi and an archon, priceless.

Sang Priest- with Jump Pack and Corbulo 180
Not bad, maybe drop Corbulo down to a regular if you want some more points elsewhere but otherwise fine.

Honor Guard- Blood Champ, Power fist, l claw - 175
+ rhino- ex armor-65
I would very much advise dropping this unit. Its what? Five single wound models in a rhino? Thats nearly the cost of a unit of terminators, and they have neither the save or invulnerable save that those hulking marines do, hell only two, three tops, have weapons that ignore saves in combat.

I'd very much suggest dropping these guys in favour of another unit of assault marines, maybe eight strong in order to even out the points between these two units.
 

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Good Point by DarkReever... so what makes this list "fluffy" -- what are you committed to running. You can pretty much always make room for the things you want and still have a solid list.

So what are your "must haves"?

Alright, lets see what can be suggested to give you idea's for this list without trying to push a complete and utter rebuild of something boring and/or unfluffy for what your aiming for.
Also, please forgive if I gave the impression I was saying "run this" in my post above... it was meant as an example of how you could get a LOT more firepower into the list... as your list currently stands, I don't think it's workable as a competative build because you don't have the elements that will make it effective.

@Reever - optimizing units within a weak overall structure does not lead to a list that works. Good point about keeping it fluffy, but I don't think your critique (while spot on) will fix the overall issues with the list.
 

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optimizing units within a weak overall structure does not lead to a list that works. Good point about keeping it fluffy, but I don't think your critique (while spot on) will fix the overall issues with the list.
Sometimes in the end, it is more fun to not take tons of the same thing despite the fact that doing so will see you win nine times out of ten. For some, the challenge is more fun, being able to get better with 'weak' choices and finding out how to actually make them work rather than conform to the nay sayers of said units. (I gave this very notion a try with possessed, a unit many chaos players will quickly tell you is complete rubbish even though it is most certainly not.)


Was the must have's comment aimed in my direction? Because I can answer that rather easily: I have no must have unit choices, only a select few must have setups to be honest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First, thanks for the input so far. Second, by fluffy, I mean...Flesh Tearers. Up close and mostly assault oriented. But when I started drafting the list I noticed I was lacking ranged anti-armor capability. I dont exactly think that a Tac Squad fits the "theme" but they do have the tools for the job. (and because Devs are still over priced.)
CLT40K, I did not take any of your messages as "Do this or you suck because this is the way I do it." So no worries, I just appreicate honest input.
You are correct in that the Honor Guard ARE expensive. I have only played my BA codex a couple of times so I'm still feeling out the units and how stuff functions. I thought they looked good since they can all have power weapons, fists and a banner which also makes the ICs attached to them nastier.
Im tempted to play with Seth even if he IS a suboptimal choice...rending is cute but not having a power weapon is just wrong.
I put Corbulo in there since others on here and on other boards have sworn by him and his re roll ability. It would be cheaper to ditch him however and free up some points.

I run the Las cannon TL plasma gun razorback since I have the old model of it. And since it is fast I can move and still shoot both weapons. Shooting a transport with a LC plus the plasma gun = a pretty good chance of it getting nuked.
Still building the Furiosio...waiting for the FW parts to come in for the talons. Im using the chain blade attachments from some of the new sets to make my blood talons. The magna grapple sounds interesting...just need to find a way to model it.

I spilt the weapons on the assault squad since I had an idea of combat squadding. Is this a good or bad idea from your experiences? If I do, one will be anti-infantry and the other a tank hunter. Astro would go with these guys, so I was thinking of giving the SGT a fist so he can take out armor while the High Chaplain kills infantry stuff.

Dark, cant use a Storm Raven as I dont have anything close to a model for it. Good idea however.

Hopefully this week I can also get some parts to make a twin linked assault cannon razor back too.
What about getting and inserting a Baal Pred?
And as far a librarian goes...what powers to give him?

Thanks again
 

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Got it... Couple of different thoughts about direction... Since the intent is to be "in thier face" then I think you can go one of a few different routes...

If you're taking Rhinos, then it's turn 1 - move flat out and pop smoke... Right now you need more rhinos to make this really work. Any opponent with a sense of self preservation will make that DC rhino a target early on. So I would advise that you make sure to take a bunch of rhinos... it's not as effective as MSU because your Rhino squad costs more, but it can be done...

If the intent is to go "black templar" then for your backfield, I think it makes sense to take more troop oriented stuff (tacs with ranged weapons / devs / etc) The idea here is to make it so that all my high strength shooting is wasted cause you just flood me with troops.... and your troops with the goods stuff are too well dug in to really focus on.... Taken to the extreme this might look like Seth + 6 full rhinos + extra points in Dev squad... The big downside here is that if you don't go first, then you better hope for lots of terrain on the board... cause you'll be footsloggin with some of them... but once you get there... you pack a hell of a punch.

Another option is to go uber shooty or shooty hybrid (above example)... ie, I overwhelm my opponent with my ability to smite them with High Strength / Low AP... but that dosen't really fit with your theme...

Another option is to go all Drop/Jumper - which your Blood Angels can do well with DoA....

Now each of the above can lead to extreme builds. .. but I think you should build to your strengths and how you want your army to play....

In your list above, you don't have enough jumpers to swarm me (which allows my tacs to get out of thier broken vehicles after you melta them and focus fire on your lone jumpers) And you don't have enough of a rhino rush to make it so my guns can't stop them all...

I think you could make it competative by getting rid of the honor guard, Corbulo, and going with a ML on your tac squad instead of the Las (being points stingy) That frees up about 525 to put in other stuff...

So yoru core list looks like - the two HQs, the drop pod surprise, the DC in a Rhino, the Las Plas, Tacs in a combat squad to objective sit, and the Jumper squad. With the remaining 500-ish points I'd go one of two ways 1. More Rhinos or 2. More jumpers... but I wouldn't go 50/50 cause you need to overwhelm me somewhere. Either way is fine...

You'd be looking at:
3 Rhinos and a Razorback + Astoroth Mini Deathstar
1 Rhino and a Razorback + Astoroth Deathstar + 20 more jumpy marines.


@ Reever - nope the "must haves" were directed towards the OP... but if somebody posts to the board asking for advice, then I think it's only right to think about the list on the whole... if they build in challenges to thier list, then that's one thing... but if we're talking about "fluffy yet competative" then I think it makes sense to talk about the fluffy elements and then how to build competative around it (which was my failure in my initial post)... But I get what you're saying, I would just add that you should point out the weaknesses as well.
 

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but if we're talking about "fluffy yet competative"
Remember that in this case it is fluff, fun, and then competative; that can lead to implications that winning holds some bearing but is not as important as the first two. (Though you have to go with the assumption that the poster is stating the most important first.)
 
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