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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes, have my cake and eat it. Fluff here.

Got a few points to spare (think the list comes to 1979). Feel like it will struggle if the enemy is decent at CC and gets close - what to do then? I've never played with or against AM (or IG), so really need a good bit of advice as to whether this list makes sense or is full of holes, before I dole out the readies. Thank you all very much in advance.

I have had some advice from the forum a while back, both in 6th and 7th, and last left it promising to post up a list. Needs to be able to cope with a variety of opponents.

So here it is:

HQ

Company Command Squad - 178 points

- Officer of the Fleet (Zefla - the sexy lawyer has sent an injunction in some form or another to limit who can turn up - the oppo are delayed arriving as they are either dealing with the issue or realise it's a load of rubbish!)
- 5 x Sniper Rifles
- Chimera with heavy flamer

ELITE

Militarum Tempestus Platoon - 459 points

- Command Squad, 4 x meltaguns
- 10 Scions, 2 x sniper rifles, Taurox Prime with missile launcher & camo-netting
- 5 Scions, 2 x meltaguns

TROOPS

Infantry Platoon - 405 points

- Platoon Command, Chimera with heavy flamer
- 2 x Infantry squad, Chimera with heavy flamer, auto-cannon
- 1 x Infantry squad, auto-cannon

Vets - 155 points

- 3 x meltaguns, Chimera w heavy flamer

Vets - 155 points

- 3 x meltaguns, Chimera w heavy flamer

Vets - 90 points

- 3 x meltaguns

FAST ATTACK

2 x Valkyrie - 250 points

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 x Hydras - 140 points

1 x Manticore - 170 points
 

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I'd tool the Vets embarked in Chimeras to only have two special weapons because that's how many can shoot out of the top hatch. You could use those points to add special weapons to your Platoon Command Squad or to add a Heavy Flamer in for each Vet squad in a Chimera. You also have no real long-ranged anti tank, changing your Vendettas over to Valkyries would solve that and not jeopardize the squads meant to be transported. I'm also not a fan of Hydras here, since you have two fliers that can cover anti-air no problem. Do you face a ton of fliers for this to be necessary? Dropping them and a few Melta Guns means you could add in a Leman Russ Demolisher with some Heavy Bolter sponsons to accompany your Chimeras. Not necessary changes mind you, just some food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd tool the Vets embarked in Chimeras to only have two special weapons because that's how many can shoot out of the top hatch. You could use those points to add special weapons to your Platoon Command Squad or to add a Heavy Flamer in for each Vet squad in a Chimera. You also have no real long-ranged anti tank, changing your Vendettas over to Valkyries would solve that and not jeopardize the squads meant to be transported. I'm also not a fan of Hydras here, since you have two fliers that can cover anti-air no problem. Do you face a ton of fliers for this to be necessary? Dropping them and a few Melta Guns means you could add in a Leman Russ Demolisher with some Heavy Bolter sponsons to accompany your Chimeras. Not necessary changes mind you, just some food for thought.
Good call re: the meltaguns. What specialist weapons would you go for on the PCS? I'm not very trusting of Gets Hot for AV 5+.

Guess you mean Valkyries over to Vendettas. Guess the reason for having the former was the extra capacity (so one or possibly two of the Veteran squads can get dropped on the enemy), the lower points cost and for BS 3 it looked as though a multi-laser & two hellstrike missiles wouldn't be too much worse than three las-cannons. Although the lascannons are twin-linked, which makes a big difference. Maybe I'll go for one of each? And drop a Hydra?

Dropping a few sniper rifles from the CCS leaves me with 72 points spare. Not enough for a LR Demolisher.

To let you know a little more about my regular opponents. One takes Eldar, with lots of skimmer tanks, wraith and a crimson figher, the other space marines with a couple of flyers. They are collecting 'nids and orks respectively, so I was thinking of magnetising e.g. the Hydras so I can use a Wyverns against the hord armies. I could put the Hydra back in?

Or are there other changes I should be making?
 

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What specialist weapons would you go for on the PCS? I'm not very trusting of Gets Hot for AV 5+.
In my PCS I play them bare, because they're just going to stay within Order range of the blob they were taken with and out of Line of Sight of the enemy. In my CCS, when I use them, I kit them with Flamers because they are following up 2-3 Vet squads in Chimeras with Melta. There's been lots of times where I've moved my 'command' Chimera between my disembarked and vulnerable Vets and the enemy to block LoS, flame and lasgun-array an enemy unit. It has worked nicely for me so far.

Guess you mean Valkyries over to Vendettas. Guess the reason for having the former was the extra capacity (so one or possibly two of the Veteran squads can get dropped on the enemy), the lower points cost and for BS 3 it looked as though a multi-laser & two hellstrike missiles wouldn't be too much worse than three las-cannons. Although the lascannons are twin-linked, which makes a big difference. Maybe I'll go for one of each? And drop a Hydra?
:laugh: yes, I do mean Valkyries to Vendettas. Dropping your third and non-transportable Vet squad makes up for this swap perfectly points-wise, leaving the Scions to embark no worries.

Dropping a few sniper rifles from the CCS leaves me with 72 points spare. Not enough for a LR Demolisher.
Dropping the Hydras, the third Melta gun in the two remaining Vet squads, and using the remaining 20 points you say you have in the list accommodates this change. If you're trying to gun down AV12 with S7 Hydras it will take that many shots and more to do any lasting damage (not accounting for lucky dice), but at the same time it is a lot of shooting for you to lose for the one Demolisher. This is a change I would surely make, but one I would understand you not wanting to do.

To let you know a little more about my regular opponents. One takes Eldar, with lots of skimmer tanks, wraith and a crimson figher, the other space marines with a couple of flyers. They are collecting 'nids and orks respectively, so I was thinking of magnetising e.g. the Hydras so I can use a Wyverns against the hord armies. I could put the Hydra back in?
The Eldar's Skimmers took a hit in 7th with Jink now making you fire Snap Shots the following turn, I think you'll find them slightly easier to deal with now. Space Marine fliers come in either tiny with a bit of weapons to big and scary with weapons and troops and a dreadnought. Both of which can be easily taken down by a pair of Vendettas (speaking from experience on both ends, I play both armies).

Or are there other changes I should be making?
The 10 Scions in a Taurox with Sniper rifles is a bit silly. They're also not allowed to take Sniper Rifles, as per the stipulation in the Wargear List. In reference to Sniper Rifles:

Cannot be taken by Rough Riders, Militarum Tempestus Scions or Militarum
Tempestus Command Squad.
I would drop the Sniper Rifles from the CCS, and the Missile Launcher and Camo Netting from the Taurox to add three Melta Guns into that squad so they have a bit more punch on the disembark.

Truthfully, I wouldn't take Scions at all. There isn't an Elites choice in the Codex that I would prefer over a couple Leman Russ's. I habitually play a pair of Battle Tanks with a Manticore in the back of my deployment zone and have never had any issue with hordes :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I could kiss you, brilliant. :so_happy: Thank you very much for taking your time with the advice, hugely useful.

The Scions are part of the fluff - they will be dressed as clowns, as per the first time the Solipsists are seen in "Against a Dark Background".

I think the answer is magnets. I'll get a couple of Vendetta/Valkyrie models and magnetise to swap, similarly with one Hydra/Wyvern. I will invest in a LR, with a few gun options (at least demolisher and battle tank).

Was thinking of transporting the Vets without a Chimera in the Valkyrie, again partly for the fluff.

Good call re: camo nets & missile launcher on Taurox. And thanks for spotting the error re: snipers for the Scions.

All good. Getting excited now. :grin:

I'll post up here how the collection grows, gets modeled and painted (just got an airbrush for the first time...), and then how it plays. Thank you again.

PS - any further advice very welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
PS...

Still feel low on close combat specialists...does that ever cause a problem? Worth taking any close combat upgrades for any of the squads? Or Ogryns / Bullgryns?

Am likely to take a very small detachment of White Scars allies to fit the fluff for some army combinations at some point. They will represent Sharrow, Miz, Dloan and Cenuij. They could help with the close stuff maybe.
 

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Whenever I think of magnets and how they work.

Seriously though, yeah magnets are a solid win. I cut up my Valkyrie to make it into a Vendetta, I had about a dozen Lascannons sitting around so I cooked something up and it works...no need to buy a conversion kit on that one! The Scions are a nice fit in the list, I am just of the opinion that aside from Hot Shot Lasguns in-game they're pretty much Veterans with fancier rules (plus I have tanks and don't have them). Amazing looking models.

I really wouldn't worry about close-combat man, I never have with Guard and I rarely lose a game with that army. They shoot better than they'll ever punch, I think it's better to play to their strengths than try and address their weakness as an army with one unit. I'm sure O/Bullgryns would make a great addition, I just thematically love the idea of a shooting Guard army. Ever seen a WWII movie that had more close combat than shooting? That being said, White Scars can be a powerful ally to you. A Captain on bike with Artificer Armour, a Storm Shield, and Power Fist running with a bike squad kitted with Meltas is definitely on my list of things to build.

No worries on the list advice man, I'm paying back to Heresy what is has done for me :drinks:
 

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Dang it, making me want to pick back up Banks's books. Think I read Consider Phlebas and Use of Weapons, but lost my copy of Player of Games halfway through... and speaking of fluff-based armies, you might inspire me to brainstorm ideas for an army of Malazan Marines, damn it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Scions are a nice fit in the list, I am just of the opinion that aside from Hot Shot Lasguns in-game they're pretty much Veterans with fancier rules (plus I have tanks and don't have them). Amazing looking models.

I really wouldn't worry about close-combat man, I never have with Guard and I rarely lose a game with that army. They shoot better than they'll ever punch, I think it's better to play to their strengths than try and address their weakness as an army with one unit. I'm sure O/Bullgryns would make a great addition, I just thematically love the idea of a shooting Guard army. Ever seen a WWII movie that had more close combat than shooting? That being said, White Scars can be a powerful ally to you. A Captain on bike with Artificer Armour, a Storm Shield, and Power Fist running with a bike squad kitted with Meltas is definitely on my list of things to build.
It was the Deep Strike the Scions bring I wanted to make use of (hence no transports for the small Scion squads). Might just end up failing to kill something and then dying, I suppose. Time will tell on that one - I'm keeping them in the list for fluff reasons, as I said.

Brill on not needing the close combat guys, fits better with the fluff as well, great.
@Mossy Toes - you have a lot of gongs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

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My buddy used to Deep Strike Stormtroopers all around my shit with Plasma Guns, it was a real pain in the ass. Granted that was when you could choose a doctrine (I think that's what it was called) for them, and one of them allowed you to re-roll your scatter dice when arriving from Deep Strike. Now, whenever I have multiple units showing up as such (which is very frequently) I always ally in at least a bare-bones Inquisitor with some Servo Skulls to reduce scatter. 34 points for a dude that gives a squad Stubborn and offers 3 massive zones of safer scatter (that's a 24" diameter bubble for each Skull)...totally worth it. Plus he can be your Warlord and has some ridiculous traits for those with lucky dice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My buddy used to Deep Strike Stormtroopers all around my shit with Plasma Guns, it was a real pain in the ass. Granted that was when you could choose a doctrine (I think that's what it was called) for them, and one of them allowed you to re-roll your scatter dice when arriving from Deep Strike. Now, whenever I have multiple units showing up as such (which is very frequently) I always ally in at least a bare-bones Inquisitor with some Servo Skulls to reduce scatter. 34 points for a dude that gives a squad Stubborn and offers 3 massive zones of safer scatter (that's a 24" diameter bubble for each Skull)...totally worth it. Plus he can be your Warlord and has some ridiculous traits for those with lucky dice.
Interesting. I was also thinking of an assassin (one of the shooty ones, don't know their name) to represent the albino Keteo from the book.
 

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Vindicare is the temple you're thinking of, and they're really fun. I use mine pretty much only on vehicles, as it's a hit on a 2+/4+ and at S10 AP2 it's usually a win. I've gotten burned by a few Crew Shaken/Stunned results, but typically I'm doing lasting damage more than a Hull Point. That same shot is also handy against Monstrous Creatures as it causes D3 wounds instead of one, still at AP2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Vindicare is the temple you're thinking of, and they're really fun. I use mine pretty much only on vehicles, as it's a hit on a 2+/4+ and at S10 AP2 it's usually a win. I've gotten burned by a few Crew Shaken/Stunned results, but typically I'm doing lasting damage more than a Hull Point. That same shot is also handy against Monstrous Creatures as it causes D3 wounds instead of one, still at AP2.
Good for Wraithlords and Wraithknights, then! :biggrin:
 

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To be clear, against Vehicles that shot is S10 AP2 and against anything else it's S- AP2 D3 Wounds (wounding on a 4+ like all sniper weapons). Something that I'm unclear of is whether you roll to-wound against non-vehicles and if successful generate that many wounds, or if you roll the D3 before you roll to-wound and then roll that many dice to-wound.

The other two shot options deny invulnerable saves or wound on a 2+, and nothing gets cover saves against him.
 

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@Mossy Toes - you have a lot of gongs.
I confess, you've lost me in bewildered amusement here. Am I missing a Culture reference?

That custom mini design program looks like the user-friendly progression of 3d printing in just the right direction, though! Making me drool over it even more. Definitely +repping you for that link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I confess, you've lost me in bewildered amusement here. Am I missing a Culture reference?

That custom mini design program looks like the user-friendly progression of 3d printing in just the right direction, though! Making me drool over it even more. Definitely +repping you for that link.
Te he, I inadvertently got you with a British colloquialism. No Culture reference - "Gongs" are medals. I clicked on your medals to see what they meant and found out the four that appear under your name are just the tip of the iceberg. You appear to be a Heresy Online legend.

Ta for the +rep, sir.
 

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I, ah, have been around a bit, yeah. They tend to accumulate like STIs (though are, needless to say, a trifle more welcome).
 
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