Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 104 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
GrandMaster Modrak
3 ghost knights with halberds

Inquisitor :
terminator armour, Psyker, Deamon sword, 2 skulls, Psycannon

4 paladins, 2 pyscannons, 2 hammers 2 halberds
1 apathacary, sword

10 purrifiers 6 halberds
4 pyscannons,

1 dreadnaught, 2 autocannons and pysbolts

1dreadknight, incinerator, doomfist

10 strike squads
2psycannons and 8 swords combat squad

10 strike squads
2psycannons and 8 swords combat squad

5 Death cult assassins
1 crusader


Okay since i am critical of peoples list I do not mind people giving their opinions but do base it on book tactics and facts. i like a good debate after all.

i have 32 points left over i am at 1968 and the inquisitor has the devination default power. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Mmmm... I like it, but...don't need one stormreaven or rhinos?

In my opinion, I think tha need more transport.

All will going walk for battlefield..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Only half an army can deep strike, therefore half this army will, at best, be slogging across the board with a 24" threat range. The Dreadnought, I assume, hangs back and some of those Strike Squads will end up holding rear objectives, but you're really not mobile. I can only assume you're hoping for Spear of Light and a good roll.

You also are NOT given the option for a Daemon Sword on a Terminator inquisitor. Taking Termie armor forces a Daemonhammer, and then taking Mastery 1 forces one weapon to become a standard (non-nemesis) Force sword.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
What's you plan with Mordrak?

He's going to be all alone turn 1 and might be an easy First Blood, Slay the Warlord for your opponent?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thank you all for the comments.

The unit is really not sloging it across the field if you really think about it. 6th edition has turn the field into a close combat scenario. the units that need to move will be able to move. With combat squad and pre measuring my army has never had need of a transport. I use to carry a storm raven for air combat. i wish to see how i will do without it and have more shooting units.

mordrak has 3 ghost knights and the inquisitor might be with him. mordrak in many of my games has only fallen once in turn 1 and that was due to my ignorance when i first used him (5th edition). You have to understand the guy and know how to use him properly and he will survive turn 1 and 2. DS him into cover and get that 3+ or even 2+ cover save if its really that desperate. last guy i played put 48 shots into his unit and mordrak lost 2 guys and 3 wounds but gained 3 Ghost Knights back , forgot to do look out sir, just an example.

I dont see how your not given the option. when it says it in the entry. The item is not free and as long as you pay for it i dont see the option being taken away because you are in terminator armour. It would be nice to discuss this further for clarification purpose but it is rather interesting.

at any rate i could if found this option not being present take a rhino for the inquisitor dca/crusader to meet up with the ds paladin unit. re rolling to hit is an awesome option dont u agree and i can join the unit when they come in heheheheh.

I never really found a need to worry about walking grey knights across half the field. Even in hard core nova style tournaments i ds units where they need to be and those units are scoring unless the mission does not call for such an attribute. walking units get to shoot unlike rhino units (limited to 2). I am grey knight so if i should move people will worry and start to make mistakes like always.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
OK but what is Mordrak actually going to achieve even given he survives?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Interesting

OK but what is Mordrak actually going to achieve even given he survives?
Mordrak cause opponents to rethink their tactics after the game has begun. he goes after vehicles or entrenched units on objectives. The unit has halberds plus a MC hammer plus grenades. Never has anyone charge this unit on turn 1. You cant just ignore the unit like they are scouts. Those are 5 guys in terminator armour with a psycannon and re rolling to hit shot and attks. Anything can happen but the law of average will give me 1 to 2 turns to move other units into proper placement. Skulls plus communion allow for proper DS of units in good positions.

I was hoping for some in depth concerns or problems. I really do appreciative all of your comments, but do you see loop holes or unseen issues i may have missed?:victory:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
Well I'm terribly sorry that my concerns aren't "in depth" enough for you, but I see gifting you opponent 2 to 4 irretrievable victory points (Slay Warlord, most likely First Blood, Mordrak + unit and Inq) by turn 3 as utterly foolish. It certainly changes you opponents game plan by allowing him to focus on killing Mordrak et al and holding his home objective and leaving you with all the work to do.

I don't see how he can really do very much to vehicles and entrenched units on objectives given that he gets shot to hell once he steps out of cover.

Mordrak is a good way to gain a lodgement in the enemy deployment zone but if he is left unsupported he is one hell of an expensive throw away.

Putting a Librarian with him does enhance his chances of survival but it also increases the already vast amount of points at risk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
I dont see how your not given the option. when it says it in the entry. The item is not free and as long as you pay for it i dont see the option being taken away because you are in terminator armour. It would be nice to discuss this further for clarification purpose but it is rather interesting.
You really want to be that guy?

What option is the Daemonblade?

'May replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
Daemonblade .... xxx points'

Now, what DONT you get with Terminator armor? Oh, yes. A bolt pistol or chainsword. In fact, it specifically ALSO says that the Terminator armor replaces the bolt pistol and chainsword with the hammer and storm bolter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
BE Reasonable

Uhmmm it is not in depth because you mention half concern and you do not show how this concern is a major problem. Any unit is subject to shooting but the law of average shows a 2+/3+ cover save increases the surviving factor greatly.

Back in 5th edition i lost him to over 60 shots IG opponent. yet my army was able to win the game because of this sacrifice and free movement with no fire on them. It was a small lost to pull the victory just like in chess, now with 6th i have not lost him to turn 1/2 massive shooting never. I am talking about alot of high profile shots, plasma. melta, heavy bolters, dark eldar, tau, new tau, eldar, ig weapons. things like that. you ignore my pyscannon units on the table turn 1 and forget the benefit of deploying anywhere without scatter. You ignore terrain and act as if the whole field can see the guy. We are playing 6th edition are we not? there is more terrain and blocking line of sight. I dont know about you but placing a terminator unit on the table after your opponent deploys is a great benefit is it not!

I type my words "in depth" not as an insult to you but as a intellectual going into detail of your concern. if you dont want to then fine say so, but do not just dismiss a reasonable request and say oh hes gonna get shot to death turn 1 and that is that as if its a marine terminator. The law of average is on my side for a surviving modrak.

xaber: please no insulting language, it has been known for models to have multiple items on them as long as they pay for them and its in their entry. You may turn in an item if you have it but it says "may" if you dont have the free item then it does not mean you cant gain access to another item or you dont get another item. its not like i am saying i get both items which is not out of the norm for an IC. Its a discussion. I am not a that guy as i would not catagorize you as a that guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Law of averages on a 2+/3+ would state that 3 Lascannon shots would kill him. 2 are saved, one IDs him. Heavy Rail Rifles. Bright Lances. Heavy Gauss Cannons. Every army has a long range tank hunting weapon which is perfectly suited to sniping Mordrak first turn, because you've put him there.You mentioned supporting psycannons on turn 1, but depending on how deep you're striking him, he won't be supported, and that's the point Oz is trying to make. To make the most of him as an assault squad, he's gotta be close, otherwise his own threat is storm bolters. If he's close, the rest of your army is busy playing wall-hugger until you get close to him, and then you're using the assault option for your pyscannons, at least on your power armor.

Right now, you keep saying that Mordrak has never fallen to overwhelming guard fire. I'm suggesting that he's a ripe target for heavy guns, since you don't really have anything better for heavy guns to blow up, except for a Dreadnought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I am suggesting LOA is on his side due to line of sight blocking buildings and most units being on the table pointed at my table units and not even concerned about a mordrak unit DS turn 1 anywhere no scatter. I am talking about tournaments where terrain is there and heavy units having 1 to 2 lascannons to fire. i have 3 ghost knights plus 1 ic along with modrak so he can survive with cover saves, Ig has mostly stationary LC so LOS helps me alot. Marine dev. squad has lascannon option but majority players take missile for more options in tournaments.

now lets look at the field of battle in majority of tournament cases and scenarios are 36". You have at least a 12 inch deployment zone which means 24 inch range of fire your opponent also has a 12 inch deployment so your distance has become shorter. GK are barely on the back of the table and can move and fire either 2 or 4 shots. We both can agree pyscannons are still the bane of your opponents who hate them with a passion. with the news movement rules it makes firing them even better in regular armour. I have 3 units that must be on the table turn 1 so thats speaks for them off hand. Ill also have the SS on the table but that is a option i have to choose from. I took it for granted that a Gk player would see these options without me listing them. Sorry for that. But to say oh mordrak would die turn one regardless of his feature of my ability to see my opponent units on the table and use tactics well is wrong of you. thats like saying drop pod armies are useless or Flyers which can be a concern only can potentially come in on turn 2 now period. FAQed.

if you only see me having just a dreadnaught as heavy fire then you are indeed blind and sorry but its just not the case at all. 40k is not about just standing back and shooting anymore. its gear to close quarter fighting now. I thought you knew that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
xaber: please no insulting language, it has been known for models to have multiple items on them as long as they pay for them and its in their entry. You may turn in an item if you have it but it says "may" if you dont have the free item then it does not mean you cant gain access to another item or you dont get another item. its not like i am saying i get both items which is not out of the norm for an IC. Its a discussion. I am not a that guy as i would not catagorize you as a that guy.
Incorrect, and to prove it, look at the most recent DA FAQ. Terminators were specifically FAQ-nerfed because the rules now state any model may replace it's power FIST and storm bolter.... immediately removing the ability for a sgt to change weapons.

Rules as Written are Rules as Written until FAQ'd. 'it has been known' is not a FAQ or a ruling. The rules state that a Daemonsword must replace a bolt pistol or chainsword, however you have already sacrificed them to convert to a suit of Termie armor, Daemonhammer, and stormbolter.

For someone who has been repeatedly making backhanded comments about how you're 'taking for granted' people understanding the rules, or how others should 'be reasonable' about tactics or deployments, or my new personal favorite, being blind, try not to muddle something as simple as a direct quote from wargear options on your own codex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,166 Posts
Even with all the upset rancor, I think this army is not going to work well against Tau. Cover saves are not as useful against them due to marker lights, and they get an insane amount of STR:5 fire that can easily ignore cover saves. A primary foot-borne set of units as you've described, especially taking the factor that you rely heavily on terrain and cover, I don't believe will stand up in this situation, especially since you also stated that DSing into cover is a tactic to keep Mordrak alive. I also believe Tau will be well represented on the NOVA tables, should that be where you're venturing. I also worry about CSM with Noise Marines and HelDrakes also totally taking away cover. I will agree when you close to HTH you have a potent force. But, I am not as sanguine as you seem to be that you will manage to make HTH with any significant force.


In addition, I'd definitely consider your inquisitor taking Rad and Psychotrope grenades. They are very useful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
HAHAHAHHA I like you

Incorrect, and to prove it, look at the most recent DA FAQ. Terminators were specifically FAQ-nerfed because the rules now state any model may replace it's power FIST and storm bolter.... immediately removing the ability for a sgt to change weapons.

Rules as Written are Rules as Written until FAQ'd. 'it has been known' is not a FAQ or a ruling. The rules state that a Daemonsword must replace a bolt pistol or chainsword, however you have already sacrificed them to convert to a suit of Termie armor, Daemonhammer, and stormbolter.

For someone who has been repeatedly making backhanded comments about how you're 'taking for granted' people understanding the rules, or how others should 'be reasonable' about tactics or deployments, or my new personal favorite, being blind, try not to muddle something as simple as a direct quote from wargear options on your own codex.
I Have the codex in front of me as well as the faq and the word "MUST again which you use is not there. Even you say the words "MAY", which is there either way i did mention in my other post other options. Your terminator FAQ rant is incorrect in the 40k faq. 1.4. I love adobe acrobat pro. helps with finding things very quickly lol. You should try it sometime. Space marine faq has nothing to do with grey knights book or its FAQ. Did you also know an inquisitor can have 2 deamon blades. HMMM interesting lol
I called you blind because you said i only have a dreadnaught as a heavy weapon option. which is not the case at all. This is the blind aspect i speak of as a grey knight player to think a psycannon is not the bane of all 40k armies. When i have alot of them shown in my list. I dont backhand anyone. I speak of attributes when they are present and when its my opinion i say so. Your words do show lies or mistake, misquoted attributes which can happen but be sure when you speak of them you leave room to the fact that you could be wrong. With such vigor from your words you assume you place yourself as not being incorrect when you type something.

This was indeed interesting but since there is no tactical information in it then its was all mute.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Mute: silent; refraining from speech or utterance.
Moot: of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

Can we at least use the right words?

You MAY chose to replace a bolt pistol or chainsword with a daemonblade. If you MUST replace it, then you just pay for a daemonblade. You MAY NOT replace another weapon with it. It gives you a set value to replace. you MAY give an OM Inquisitor 2 Daemonblades if it's not in Termie Armor, because you MAY replace the bolt pistol and the chainsword.

forget it. Walk into a tournament with a Termiquistor and a Daemonblade. get laughed off the field for being unable to read a codex. Tactics be damned, your English fails first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thank you alot

Even with all the upset rancor, I think this army is not going to work well against Tau. Cover saves are not as useful against them due to marker lights, and they get an insane amount of STR:5 fire that can easily ignore cover saves. A primary foot-borne set of units as you've described, especially taking the factor that you rely heavily on terrain and cover, I don't believe will stand up in this situation, especially since you also stated that DSing into cover is a tactic to keep Mordrak alive. I also believe Tau will be well represented on the NOVA tables, should that be where you're venturing. I also worry about CSM with Noise Marines and HelDrakes also totally taking away cover. I will agree when you close to HTH you have a potent force. But, I am not as sanguine as you seem to be that you will manage to make HTH with any significant force.


In addition, I'd definitely consider your inquisitor taking Rad and Psychotrope grenades. They are very useful.
Thank you for this. The new tau can be a pain in the ass. I did try another list with less pyscannons and lost only by 1 point. mordrak did survive the 48 shots to him turn 1. but they couldnt get rid of his cover due to me only being seen by 1 mark unit. tau are a pain but those mark units need to still see me. and be alive when they try and mark me. granted you do bring forth a good point about this revamped army. Deamons and chaos marines i am not so concerned about as i still can out shoot them on the move. Tau die to my weapons even though i get saves from most of there weapons.

You are right cover is one of my tactics but 6th edition changed it to be this way so i use it. along with servo skulls and DSing. Changing functions as they be and allowing for wiggle room in my play. Still i do take this concern you listed in mind and watch for it as a game progress.

HTH unless with other super characters goes back in my favour due to the new FAQ about instant death and Feel no pain. One can feel pain from a GK weapon if activated lol.

Ordo inquisitor cannot take rad/psychok nades only xeno can and xeno cant take terminator armour. so no go on that front.

I found it not a need to have rhinos or razor back to carry around my GK squads. perhaps my inquisitorial henchmen but SS can move, scout and or DS and those options go better without a vehicle to hold them back in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,166 Posts
In ALL tournament situations I've encountered, there is little or no LOS Blocking terrain. So counting on being actually HIDDEN is very unlikely, in my experience. I do agree with the fact that you can buy two demonblades for your INQ. He then replaces them with the Termi Armor and weapons, making them useless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Mute still

Mute: silent; refraining from speech or utterance.
Moot: of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

Can we at least use the right words?

You MAY chose to replace a bolt pistol or chainsword with a daemonblade. If you MUST replace it, then you just pay for a daemonblade. You MAY NOT replace another weapon with it. It gives you a set value to replace. you MAY give an OM Inquisitor 2 Daemonblades if it's not in Termie Armor, because you MAY replace the bolt pistol and the chainsword.

forget it. Walk into a tournament with a Termiquistor and a Daemonblade. get laughed off the field for being unable to read a codex. Tactics be damned, your English fails first.
i used the correct word in my sentence because unlike you i dont say one word and use another or portray it as another. I also have myself in cover to another option for the inquisitor which you over look and did not take into consideration just went on this child like rant about a small attribute which i payed for and in a tournament i would have an extra 15 points to spend in my list so i would be allowed to make an adjustment for the 15 points before the battle began. Its called show your list before the tournament starts. It happens in nova style tournaments

"May" is not "must" and do not mean the same attribute and are not covered in the definition with each other. so stop uttering incorrect analogies. This is why i used the word mute and corrected you on your wrong information you listed and to which you did not apologize for giving. At least i can admit the possible notion of incorrect information. :laugh:

In ALL tournament situations I've encountered, there is little or no LOS Blocking terrain. So counting on being actually HIDDEN is very unlikely, in my experience. I do agree with the fact that you can buy two demonblades for your INQ. He then replaces them with the Termi Armor and weapons, making them useless.
i was just reading the FAQ about that notion as to a correct example of faq knowledge. rather then the one xabre incorrectly gave. It was not to say ill take 2 deamonblades. I can go with the notion of being safe then having an extra 15 points to spendI just thought having a discussion about the may factor or at least i thought i could in here.

nova has at minimum 7 types of cover middle being area just in my experience he has been block by cover in the past 100 or so games ive played.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Grand Master Modrak
3 ghost knights with halberds

I have to agree with the others here in saying that Mordrak is quite lack luster. I mean, sure he can deep strike first turn on you enemy's flank, but if you opponents are intelligent, they will be putting their units in the cover near them not going "Oh, that's some nice useful cover I could use to get a 3+ cover. I think I'll stand in the open" Plus, you are assuming that all the cover is a building, thus granting you a 3+ cover save, which is not guaranteed.

On another note about cover, if you deep strike into any cover that counts as difficult terrain, you get to take dangerous terrain tests which could potentially lose you models.

Another point is you seem to like averages when they suit you, but ignore them when they don't. For example, by averages, the most likely number of body-guards Mordrak will gain before he dies is 2, but you seem to think that you are guaranteed to gain 3 back because it happened to you in some games. I've used Mordrak and at times he had gained no body-guards when he has lost wounds.

Your HQ unit as it stands is worth 436 points and would yield, if killed, up to a total of 4 objective points. If you were playing a game with only 3 objectives, your opponent could hold none of them, but have someone in your deployment zone and then as long as he is alive at the end, you would be unlikely to get more than a draw. But no opponent in a tournament would do that, so odds are that one unit would cost you the game.

And you boast about how "He had 48 shots put into him, lost three wounds and 2 guys." as if that's and achievement. A 50 man guard blob worth less than a quarter of that unit can pour 150 shots into him, and would pretty much force you into a lose. And all so you can have 1 unit which could potentially wreck tanks. What if your opponents have no tanks? Or they are nowhere near this magical cover you seem to cling to?

Inquisitor :
terminator armour, Psyker, Deamon sword, 2 skulls, Psycannon

Horray, an illegal unit! In other news, the codex clearly states that "You may replace carapace armour, bolt pistol, chainsword, frag and krak grenades..." and, as has been said before, the codex also says "You may replace bolt pistol/chainsword with...Daemonblade...". So if you have already replaced the bolt pistol with terminator armour, how can you possibly think that you could replace it again with a Daemonblade?

4 paladins, 2 pyscannons, 2 hammers 2 halberds
1 apathacary, sword

A pretty decent squad. I am assuming that you plan to deep strike these around the Servo-skulls you have from you Inquisitor? That would be fair enough, but I would be dubious since Servo-skulls can't be in the enemy deployment zone and only allow you one less D6 scatter, so there is still a chance for mishaps to occur. And then the still have to walk some, and since there is only 5 of them, I could seem them being brought down by weight of fire or and serious assault unit with AP2 (since most AP2 weapons allow for S8 on MEQ and thus would ID them). Just some thoughts of things to avoid really.

10 purrifiers 6 halberds
4 pyscannons,

Pretty good, but I'd still be concerned about them foot slogging it. I mean, a Rhino is only 40 points and it would allow them faster movement and to get into combat faster if that's what you're after.

1 dreadnaught, 2 autocannons and pysbolts

Solid unit which seems to crop up in most lists. Nothing to say here.

1dreadknight, incinerator, doomfist

Pretty decent as far as units go. Can cause other TEQs some problems. I would be more partial to the Heavy Psycannon myself (and I would have thought you would be too considering "Psycannons are the bane of every army". I'd keep this.

10 strike squads
2psycannons and 8 swords combat squad

10 strike squads
2psycannons and 8 swords combat squad

My concern for both of these would still be the fact that they have to walk. Again, Rhinos are only 40 points.

5 Death cult assassins
1 crusader

The one crusader seems a bit...odd, if I'm honest. And again, even more-so than the units with power armour, they are foot-slogging it. I mean, they have 5+ armour for goodness sake. One squad of tactical marines could deal with them with bolters. Not a great unit and it seems like a waste of points without a transport.
So, those are my thoughts basically. I would drop Mordrak and the Inquisitor, pick cheaper HQs and buy some damn transports. Plus, if you did it well enough, you could include a Raven and those things are wonderful IMO and in my experience.

Oh, on that note, my other concern would be that this list has no discernible anti-flyer units. I mean, if you had a Raven or and Aegis defense line with a quad gun, at least you'd have something.

On a general note; stop being a prick. You asked us for our thoughts and then when given them you are like "No, you're wrong." If you don't want to listen to any other thoughts, why ask? Just some common decency would be nice, not demeaning, patronizing responses like "Your terminator FAQ rant is incorrect in the 40k faq. 1.4. I love adobe acrobat pro. helps with finding things very quickly lol." and "Did you also know an inquisitor can have 2 deamon blades. HMMM interesting lol" and calling people who are trying to offer you advice "blind". It just makes you seem like a penis and is really annoying.
 
1 - 20 of 104 Posts
Top