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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HQ
Sammael
Librarian in terminator Armour, level 1

TROOPS
6 Ravenwing bikers, Veteran Sergeant with Powersword, Attack Bike with Multi-Melta, Landspeeder with Typhoon Missile Launcher

6 Ravenwing bikers, Veteran Sergeant with Powersword, Attack Bike with Heavy Bolter, Landspeeder with Typhoon Missile Launcher

ELITES
10 Deathwing Knights

FAST ATTACK
6 Ravenwing Black Knights, Huntmaster with Powersword
Nephilim Jetfighter with Twin Linked Lascannons
Nephilim Jetfighter with Twin Linked Lascannons

Apologies, if this is over the 2000 points, I'm staying at my Mum's over Xmas and New Year and haven't brought my Dark Angels Codex with me for exact points (I did get the Ravenwing elements minus a powersword I believe, and a Whirlwind in 1500 a while ago and that list has stuck with me). I also haven't played my Dark Angels for a while, been really enjoying playing my Chaos Space Marines.

My brother has Orks and a friend of mine has, Tyranids as his main army, plus some Grey Knights, Tau and Necrons, so that's what I would be mainly facing.

When I've tried making Dark Angel lists that focus more on Deathwing or the Average Green Dark Angel (yes, I've looked at doing 2 10 man tactical squads in Rhinos, with a Command Squad in a Razorback with Twin Linked Lascannons-even Orks and Nids need some Lascannos to go up against them).

I've also suffered badly with the dreaded "Gets Hot" with the Dark Angels plasma happy guys.

I'm hoping that the bikes +1 T (making the Ravenwing Bikers T5) will help them to survive a bit longer, plus their "Hit And Run" helps them get out of anything that's going badly for them.

The Nephilim Jetfighters with their "Strafing Run" +1 BS shooting ground targets, so hit on a 2+ with Lascannons (Twin Linked) should help deal with any big, nasty problems, and hopefully the Multi-Melta on the Attack Bike.

The Plasma Guns on the Black Knights will also help whittle down the big problems, even if the Plasma just knocks away Hull Points and the 2 Attacks in Combat (not including Charge +1 bonus) should help in Close Combat situations.

Finally, The Deathwing Knights with their +1 T (if they stay touching bases, so each one touches 2 more) and their 2+ Armour and 3+ Invulnerable saves from their Storm Shields, should help them to last the game. Also, with their weapons, they won't be hitting last, like Thunder Hammers do. By putting the Librarian with them, they will have a +1 modifier to any Deny The Witch rolls, so stopping Psychic Attacks on them with a 5+, plus with the ability to take the Divination Primaris Power, "Prescience" and allow 1 unit within 12 inches of him to re-roll hits.

Any comments or advice would be most welcome. Thanks.
 

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Firstly, this is an illegal list; you need to have either Azrael or Sammael to use Ravenwing as Troops, so they are technically still FA; and you have 5 choices of that.

The Dark Angel Fighters suck terribly. Compare 180pts for a TL'd BS5 Lascannon, Heavy bolter and with S6 Missiles, versus 200pts for a Stormraven - which provides the same, but Melta immunity and 12/12/12 AV and a Transport Capacity for 20pts more.

If you want flyers, you want Space Marines for that. For a 175pt tax (Mastery 1 Librarian, 2x 5 Scouts), you can pick up to 3 Stormravens as a Heavy Flyer (200pts for TL'd Lascannon on Turret, multimelta, and S8 AP2 Missiles with a Transport Capacity, versus 180pts for a TL BS5 Lascannon, Heavy Bolters and S6 AP4 Missiles, no Transport... no comparison).

You have a ton of Knights. 465pts in Terminators 2+/3++ Save Terminators, tough as they are, are still only Terminators. Unless you stay close together, in which case the large volume of S7+ AP2 weaponry that Tau and Orks can potentially put out render those defences useless.

In short, look at the models you wish to field;

11 Terminators
18 Bikes
2 AV11 Flyers.

That's... nothing, compared to what Orks, Nids and Grey Knights can bring. GKT's with Hammers. I don't really play Dark Angels, and can't much offer advice than *don't*.

They have some niche units; such as Black Knights.

Consider;

Allied Detach 1 ~600
Sammael
Ravenwing Command Squad, Apothecary, Ravenwing Grenade Launcher, Blade of Caliban
Black Knights, Grenade Launcher
Black Knights, Grenade Launcher

Allied Detach 2 ~350ish
Librarian, Divination, Mastery 2, Space Marine Bike, Powerfield Generator
Ravenwing Command Squad, Apothecary, Ravenwing Grenade Launcher, Blade of Caliban
Scouts

This leaves you around 1k ish pts to spend elsewhere;

For example, Space Marines;

White Scars Captain, Bike
2x Squads of Bikers (+1 Member, 2x Gravguns, Attack bike, Multimelta)
1x Storm Talon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher or Lascannons
2x Stormravens, any one of Lascannon/Asscan/Plasma Cannon+Multimelta

This should come in at 2k points. I couldn't fit the Terminators in, but dropping Sammael's detachment lets you drop a ton of points into a Deathwing Knight squad if you wish.



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You're only over by 19 or so points from what I can tell. Vaz made some really good points. He also made an oversight or two but he's helped me before so we'll forgive him!

I do love the bikes. White Scars can do it better but if you have an Angels army then by all means they aren't terrible. The scout and teleport homers are great assets for allies. I also love the stand alone Objsec attack bike. It's just fun when people forget it's objsec.

Terminators just aren't what they used to be. Very expensive for durability that's really not all that durable. Plus they lack mobility.

The flyers are pretty bad. Can't wait for a rules update on these guys.

Since you have to have Sammael in your primary detachment to make bikes troops, I wouldn't recommend putting him in an allied detachment.

Bike command squads are cheaper than Black Knights by a little, but can't bring any more models. But can bring the Banner of Devastation making those bolters on your relentless bikes Salvo 4 and still twin-linked. More shots at more range. You could eat hordes alive by just staying out of charge range and mowing them down.

If you're dying for some terminator support I'd recommend the Space Wolves' Wolf Guard Void Claws formation. For 240pts you can run 5 deepstriking S5 Shredding terminators that auto arrive first turn, then allow you to reroll reserves as long as they're alive. Good synergy with those bikes, fluff aside. But there are other ways to get reserve manipulation.

I'm not too sure about spending 600 points on 3 Stormravens when you could take the Stormwing formation and bring a Raven and two talons in one reserve roll, rerollable with the Void Claws. I run mine with Twin-Linked Las all around and a Melta on the Raven for anti-armor/MC/FMC.

I'm a bit iffy on the Libbie too. A single psyker can easily be Denied every turn. The Culexus Assassin makes the game's best psyker defense. I highly recommend looking up the Officio Assassinorum dataslate on Google.

What I would take would be something like:

200 Sammael
185 3x Command Squad (Banner of Dev)

291 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), MM Attack Bike, Typhoon Speeder
291 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), MM Attack Bike, Typhoon Speeder
236 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), Typhoon Speeder
90 5x Tactical Squad (Lascannon)

75 Imperial Bunker w/ Comms

480 Stormwing
-Stormraven (TLMM, TLLC)
-Stormtalon (TLLC)
-Stormtalon (TLLC)

140 Culexus Assassin

This leaves you 12 points, plenty of flyer support, lots of anti-tank, horde control, and a touch of plasma.

This all is of course if you don't want to run a pure DA army. Since I painted up my White Scars I've kind of ignored my Ravenwing unless mixing in heavy allies (mixing Wolf Lords with scouting bikes, and Sammael with Thunderwolves is fun, especially conferring hit&run and skilled rider), and I haven't used my Deathwing in so long that I can't remember if I painted them bone white or if they've just collected that much dust!

I hope at least some of this was helpful, or even got some ideas popping up for you. I'm sure no matter what you field it'll still be fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi guys, thanks for your input. Vaz, I am taking Sammael, so its not an "illegal" list.

I love the Dark Angels models and have some already, though its not a great army as I hadn't been working to a theme. I do struggle when trying to put together a decent DA army list. I do find that some of their units and vehicles are overpriced, points wise for what they do, however, I do realise that DA are more of a synergy army and you need the different elements to work together, more than trying to rely on 1 particular aspect of the army. That said, whenever I have tried doing a list, I find that I make a better list by basing it around Ravenwing than I do with my current Deathwing idea. Yes, I have Belial and have used him with a 10 man Deathwing squad (which consists of Sergeant, 1 DW with Assault Cannon and Powerfist, 1 Cyclone Missile Launcher and Powerfist, 2 Stormbolters and Poerfists and 5 w Thunder Hammers and Stormshields) Deep Striking and using the Twin Linked and Split Fire Deathwing Assault rule. I did it when I was mainly facing Tau and Necrons, it caused them some problems, but against hordes, well, it tied up half an army for a turn or 2, but ultimately, they died. That's an embarrassing and expensive 700 points!

I do like the Sammael model and I do like the idea of the Standard of Devestation, but I do feel that its overpriced for what it does.

I don't feel that the flyers are fantastic, but they'd be harder to shoot down, plus some Lascannons somewhere definitely are needed and I quite like the model.

I can drop both my Biker Veteran Sergeants to normal Sergeants and be within the 2000.

I do love the Deathwing Knights models and will have some at some point, for that reason alone.
 

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I'm with you on the models. They are great. I bought a used army off of ebay but I have a hard time using them without allies. There are ways though. Run a Ravenwing/Greenwing combo! You've got access to some awesome dreadnoughts (mortis) as elites and you can forget about taking expensive flyers. That and the dual las mortis dread is sexy as hell. Devastator squads can also give some much needed ranged fire support. You can also hook up your bikes with meltaguns for some scouting anti-tank. You could mix in Tacticals with razorbacks for even more ranged shooty.

And I'm most certainly not saying you're wrong, but I do disagree about the banner of dev. It is expensive and on paper I thought the same. But in game terms it's cheaper than a 5 man terminator squad and gives an area effect to your other bikes that doubles your shot output and range on 2 or 3 squads. Imagine 3 scouted bike squads, moving another 12 across no-man's-land, sitting on your opponent's doorstep turn one unleashing up to 72 twin-linked bolter shots combined or divided at up to 3 different targets all the way to the back of the enemy deployment zone in a dawn of war mission. If I could I'd bring two!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I shall have to have a look at other combos ideas that you've given me when I get back to my DA Codex.

Maybe swap the 10 Deathwing Knights for a couple of 5 man Tactical Squads in Lascannon armed Razorbacks to back up the Ravenwing and a Multi-Melta and Powwerfist armed Dreadnought in a Drop Pod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Another list I've thought of...

HQ
Dark Angels Company Master, Articifer Armour, Powersword, Digital Weapons,
Command Squad, 2 Melta Guns, Banner of Devestation in Razorback w Twin Linked Lascannon

Librarian, level 2, Terminator Armour

TROOPS
10 Tactical Marines, Veteran Sergeant w Powersword, in Rhino
10 Tactical Marines, Veteran Sergeant w Powersword, in Rhino

ELITES
10 Deathwing Knights
Dreadnought w Multi-Melta and Powerfist w Heavy Flamer, in Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK
6 Ravenwing Bikers, Veteran Sergeant w Powersword, Attack Bike w Multi-Melta and Landspeeder Typhoon
Nephilim Jetfighter w Twin Linked Lascannon
Nephilim Jetfighter w Twin Linked Lascannon

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator w Twin Linked Lascannon and side mounted Heavy Bolters
Vindicator
 

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You're only over by 19 or so points from what I can tell. Vaz made some really good points. He also made an oversight or two but he's helped me before so we'll forgive him!

I do love the bikes. White Scars can do it better but if you have an Angels army then by all means they aren't terrible. The scout and teleport homers are great assets for allies. I also love the stand alone Objsec attack bike. It's just fun when people forget it's objsec.

Terminators just aren't what they used to be. Very expensive for durability that's really not all that durable. Plus they lack mobility.

The flyers are pretty bad. Can't wait for a rules update on these guys.

Since you have to have Sammael in your primary detachment to make bikes troops, I wouldn't recommend putting him in an allied detachment.

Bike command squads are cheaper than Black Knights by a little, but can't bring any more models. But can bring the Banner of Devastation making those bolters on your relentless bikes Salvo 4 and still twin-linked. More shots at more range. You could eat hordes alive by just staying out of charge range and mowing them down.

If you're dying for some terminator support I'd recommend the Space Wolves' Wolf Guard Void Claws formation. For 240pts you can run 5 deepstriking S5 Shredding terminators that auto arrive first turn, then allow you to reroll reserves as long as they're alive. Good synergy with those bikes, fluff aside. But there are other ways to get reserve manipulation.

I'm not too sure about spending 600 points on 3 Stormravens when you could take the Stormwing formation and bring a Raven and two talons in one reserve roll, rerollable with the Void Claws. I run mine with Twin-Linked Las all around and a Melta on the Raven for anti-armor/MC/FMC.

I'm a bit iffy on the Libbie too. A single psyker can easily be Denied every turn. The Culexus Assassin makes the game's best psyker defense. I highly recommend looking up the Officio Assassinorum dataslate on Google.

What I would take would be something like:

200 Sammael
185 3x Command Squad (Banner of Dev)

291 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), MM Attack Bike, Typhoon Speeder
291 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), MM Attack Bike, Typhoon Speeder
236 6x Bikes (No Upgrades), Typhoon Speeder
90 5x Tactical Squad (Lascannon)

75 Imperial Bunker w/ Comms

480 Stormwing
-Stormraven (TLMM, TLLC)
-Stormtalon (TLLC)
-Stormtalon (TLLC)

140 Culexus Assassin

This leaves you 12 points, plenty of flyer support, lots of anti-tank, horde control, and a touch of plasma.

This all is of course if you don't want to run a pure DA army. Since I painted up my White Scars I've kind of ignored my Ravenwing unless mixing in heavy allies (mixing Wolf Lords with scouting bikes, and Sammael with Thunderwolves is fun, especially conferring hit&run and skilled rider), and I haven't used my Deathwing in so long that I can't remember if I painted them bone white or if they've just collected that much dust!

I hope at least some of this was helpful, or even got some ideas popping up for you. I'm sure no matter what you field it'll still be fun!

I love this list. The Stormwing Formation is awesome. And you can still paint the flyers in DA colors, if you wanted too.
Only thing I don't like, is the Culexus Assassin. Only because it makes the list unbound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys.

The StormTalon and StormRaven aren't available in the Dark Angel Codex.

HQ
Sammael
Librarian level 2

TROOPS
10 Man Tactical Squad, Veteran Sergeant with Powersword, Plasma Gun
10 Man Tactical Squad, Veteran Sergeant with Powersword, Plasma Gun
10 Man Scout Squad, Veteran Sergeant with Powersword, 4 Scouts with Combat Knives, 5 Scouts with Boltguns

ELITES
8 Deathwing Knights with Perfidious Relic of Unforgiven
Venerable Dreadnought with Multi-Melta, Powerfist with Heavy Flamer in Drop Pod with Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK
6 Ravenwing Black Knights, Huntmaster with Powersword, 2 Grenade Launchers
Nephilim Jetfighter

HEAVY SUPPORT
Whirlwind
Vindicator with Siege Shield
 

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It's not unbound with an Assassin. You can add one to any list. They have a formation where you can bring one of each and get a small boost, but it's expensive. A single assassin is still okay because their dataslate allows one per Assassin detachment and still be battle forged.

The raven/talons are in a formation and can be brought as allies without needing troops and such.
 

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A single assassin is still okay because their dataslate allows one per Assassin detachment and still be battle forged.
...but as many Assassin Detachments as you want! :crazy:

I play a Vindicare and Callidus with my Deathwing army.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's not unbound with an Assassin. You can add one to any list. They have a formation where you can bring one of each and get a small boost, but it's expensive. A single assassin is still okay because their dataslate allows one per Assassin detachment and still be battle forged.

The raven/talons are in a formation and can be brought as allies without needing troops and such.
Ah, I did not know that there was a formation of Stormtalons and Ravens.

I would not say "No" to Stormtalons to be fair, nice model.

Assassins look nice, as well.
 
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