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Discussion Starter #1
HQ

(1)Asurmen-210
(1)Eldrad-210
Elite

(10)Fire Dragons-180
-Exarch
-Fire Pike
-Tank Hunters
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon
Troops

(8)Dire Avengers-96
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon
(10)Storm Guardians-88
-Fusion gun
Fast Attack

(5) Shining Spears-212
-Exarch
-Star Lance
-WithDraw
Heavy Support

Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
(5)Dark Reapers-197
-Exarch
-Missle Launcher
-Fast Shot


Tactics:
Turn 1. Reapers Stay back in cover and shoot at Meq . Falcons go after transports and elite troops with 2+ saves. Shining Spears turbo boost and pick something to assault in the next turn. Storm Guardians are in reserves they’ll walk in later and get objectives. Dire Avenger Wave serpent (With Eldrad and Asurmen) Move as fast as possible and gets into a position to get out and bladestorm next turn. (Eldrad fortunes the tank for cover saves, guides fire dragons, and fortunes fire dragons.) Fire Dragon Wave serpent moves 12’ dumps Fire Dragons in front of a big tank. (After shooting if Fire Dragons kill their target, and they will, star engines to get in front of them for mad cover saves.
Turn 2. Reapers continue to gun down Meq. Falcons keep shooting. The Shining spears should now be in assault range and will dominate their target (if they don’t kill it they withdraw) Hope your storm guardians don’t come in yet. Dire avengers come out of tank and shoot something, it will die(Blade storm, guide, doom = boom) fortune from Eldrad should now be on Shining spears, use star engines to run eldrads tank away after he’s done with powers Fire Dragons get back in wave serpent and run while shooting their brightlance at more tanks.
Turn 3. Storms come in and go for objectives, Falcons start to move toward enemy objectives for last turn contestation, eldrad in his wave serpent move toward shining spears, Fire dragons wave serpent move and drop them again to kill more tanks/heavy infantry.


Im 27 points under 2000, just a side note.

no fluff restrictions I dont need that
 

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Your list is interesting, but I think it can be improved upon. When I look at it, I see an army that is a little to elite, with tons of points per model.

Regarding Eldrad:
I love this guy, but judging from your tactics, you can go with a cheaper Farseer. Grab one with Guide, Doom, Runes of Witnessing & Runes of Warding, and you have a guy that will do the exact same thing at about 1/2 the price of the big E. Sure, you lose some of Eldrad's utility, but you save some points that can be used to buy more goodies.

Regarding Asurmen:
I can see why you have him, for the free Exarch powers and the CC beast he can be. However, if you are doing the 'hop out and bladestorm' tactic, maybe look at just springing for the squad Exarch and Blade-storm power. If you had more units of troops, I would say leave him. However, to get the most out of him, you need to get his squad into CC. That means feeding one of your 2 scoring units into the proverbial blender just to get the benefit of his awesomeness. A tactically sound decision that is not. Maybe looks at doping him for a second Farseer (maybe one with guide to sit with your Reapers).

Regarding your Fire Dragons:
Split the squad into 2, and make your serpents as bare-bones as you can get (i.e., Stock w/ Spirit-stones and Shuri-cannons). I personally keep Exarchs with Tank Hunters, but many here will advise against it (I tend to roll on the south side of average, so like the extra security).
The problem with a big blob of melta death is that it is a mega priority target. I like the idea that you have of 'star engine' in some cover for them, but trust me when I say that a wave serpent will not keep them from getting assaulted by what falls out of 'big scary tank'. Most times, these will be things like TH/SS terminators and the like. Targets that a bladestorm of DA's still won't likely remove in one go. If you split your squad, you can pick two mega-tank targets, and get more mileage from them (all for about an extra 120 points).

Regarding your Troops:
I would still spring for a ten-man squad of DA's with a dual-catapult Exarch. It will give you more blade-storm shots, which makes the blade-storm that much more devastating.

Regarding the storm guardians....really? Why not just get 5 rangers and walk them into cover. Guardians are just too flimsy in my books, and storm guardians don't even have the long-range capability of a weapons platform. I would say drop and grab some Rangers. If you can find the point, upgrade them into pathfinders. Or consider dropping them for a 5man bare squad of Da's to sit in one of your Falcon's to make it scoring.

Regarding the Spears:
......I just wouldn't. Even at T4 with a 3+ cover, they will get shredded by anything that shoots at them, and they don't have the bodies to take casualties and remain effective. If you want something to shred in assault, consider a re-vamp to include a Banshee squad in your other empty Falcon (or a bigger squad in its own Serpent).

Regarding your Heavy Support:

I always find empty falcons to be something of a shame. See my above comments regarding that. Not sold on the starcannon idea, but I can see it's merit.

With regards to your Reaper load-out, I would go with a tempest launcher and crack shot myself. Seeing as how your target is MEQ., you will get more mileage from the tempest launchers shots that from a EML. Yes, I know the range is shorter. However, good positioning can over-come that liability, and you will kill more MEQ with a TL than an EML any day.

Pardon the wall of text. I just see lots of holes in your list, and I think it would crack against many different opponents. Consider this constructive criticism.
 

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Just 1 thing on this, you said you're going to put Eldrad and Asurman with the dire avengers? didn't think you could have 2 special characters with 1 unit?

i think the above poster has covered everything else!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
reply

Regarding Eldrad:
I love this guy, but judging from your tactics, you can go with a cheaper Farseer. Grab one with Guide, Doom, Runes of Witnessing & Runes of Warding, and you have a guy that will do the exact same thing at about 1/2 the price of the big E. Sure, you lose some of Eldrad's utility, but you save some points that can be used to buy more goodies.

Reguarding Asurmen:
I can see why you have him, for the free Exarch powers and the CC beast he can be. However, if you are doing the 'hop out and bladestorm' tactic, maybe look at just springing for the squad Exarch and Blade-storm power. If you had more units of troops, I would say leave him. However, to get the most out of him, you need to get his squad into CC. That means feeding one of your 2 scoring units into the proverbial blender just to get the benefit of his awesomeness. A tactically sound decision that is not. Maybe looks at doping him for a second Farseer (maybe one with guide to sit with your Reapers).


Regarding your Fire Dragons:
Split the squad into 2, and make your serpents as bare-bones as you can get (i.e., Stock w/ Spirit-stones and Shuri-cannons). I personally keep Exarchs with Tank Hunters, but many here will advise against it (I tend to roll on the south side of average, so like the extra security).
The problem with a big blob of melta death is that it is a mega priority target. I like the idea that you have of 'star engine' in some cover for them, but trust me when I say that a wave serpent will not keep them from getting assaulted by what falls out of 'big scary tank'. Most times, these will be things like TH/SS terminators and the like. Targets that a bladestorm of DA's still won't likely remove in one go. If you split your squad, you can pick two mega-tank targets, and get more mileage from them (all for about an extra 120 points).

Regarding your Troops:
I would still spring for a ten-man squad of DA's with a dual-catapult Exarch. It will give you more blade-storm shots, which makes the blade-storm that much more devastating.

Regarding the storm guardians....really? Why not just get 5 rangers and walk them into cover. Guardians are just too flimsy in my books, and storm guardians don't even have the long-range capability of a weapons platform. I would say drop and grab some Rangers. If you can find the point, upgrade them into pathfinders. Or consider dropping them for a 5man bare squad of Da's to sit in one of your Falcon's to make it scoring.

Regarding the Spears:
......I just wouldn't. Even at T4 with a 3+ cover, they will get shredded by anything that shoots at them, and they don't have the bodies to take casualties and remain effective. If you want something to shred in assault, consider a re-vamp to include a Banshee squad in your other empty Falcon (or a bigger squad in its own Serpent).

Regarding your Heavy Support:

I always find empty falcons to be something of a shame. See my above comments regarding that. Not sold on the starcannon idea, but I can see it's merit.

With regards to your Reaper load-out, I would go with a tempest launcher and crack shot myself. Seeing as how your target is MEQ., you will get more mileage from the tempest launchers shots that from a EML. Yes, I know the range is shorter. However, good positioning can over-come that liability, and you will kill more MEQ with a TL than an EML any day.

Pardon the wall of text. I just see lots of holes in your list, and I think it would crack against many different opponents. Consider this constructive criticism.
I Started with a list with about that set up of a farseer and I came to the conclusion that I always seemed to need Eldrads 3 powers or I would run out and assult without fortune and die.
With Eldrad in a wave serpant my 8 Dire avengers lead by asurmen have never lost a combat, Asurmen is a tank and with defend and fortune up constantly if im not wiped out on the first round i wont loes. I dont need 2 farseers. after the bladestorm, they can't shoot in the next turn anyway so eldrad can get doom and fortune up for them then they can get the charge off.

I like the big squad of melta death.......

Storm guardians always seem to do more then they should, and ive never killed a thing with gun platforms. just my luck maybe but melta gun is nice.

I get too many hater comments about shining spears :angry: they ALL have 3+ armour saves as well as cover, Banshees are just trash to be honest. T3 S3, really? you gonna assult something and try to wound on 5+? no your not you are gonna put up doom and fortune which means you end up needing a seer near them anyway, and with the points you need to get a big enough squad and a seer you allready passed the point cost of Shining spears. and spears have hit and run S6 T4 3+ save power weapons AND the Exarch is holding a short range brightlance. their a better choice. :king:

@Udders Just 1 thing on this, you said you're going to put Eldrad and Asurman with the dire avengers? didn't think you could have 2 special characters with 1 unit?

First of all there is no ruel that says you can't. and second Eldrad is just in the serpant not attatched to the squad.
 

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The problem with Spears is that you are paying over 40 points per model for a middling assault unit. For the same points, you can get more effective assault units that have to be knocked out of a transport. a 3+ save is not termi armor, and even 2 spears lost severely reduces the units impact. Go with them if you must, but other assault units (like properly supported banshees, harlies, or scorpions) will get you the most mileage against a wider range of opponents.

I also like big squads of melta death. Splitting them just allows you to neutralize more big tank targets, as Melta Death squads usually never survive to shoot again. Maybe if you are lucky, but likely not.

I advocated Rangers more than Storm Guardians because the former are more durable in cover (better save) and can actually contribute when they hit the board (better range of gun). All for 7 more points that your Strom Guardian squad.

My criticism of Asurmen in the list still stands. Yes he is awesome in the assault. Yes he is a tank. But if you actually assault dedicated CC units, suddenly you are feeding your DA's into a blender. A savvy opponent will ignore Asurmen to kill your avengers with power weapons. When 2/3 of the games played rely on objectives, I don't know why you would hamstring yourself like that.

My comments about the Farseer rely on the fact that I don't think your should be assaulting with your DA's. They should be re-embarked the following turn and sped away.

Yes, you can attach 2 special characters to a unit. If they are an IC, they follow the rules for IC's.

And try not to get too angry when you don't like the response you get from the wider internet community. You ask for our honest opinion, and we give it. Can't take the criticism, don't ask.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
haha thanks for advice think im gonna drop asurmen, the fire dragon wave serpant, and eldrad.

gonna split melta death into groups of 5 and put them up into the falcons. Eldrad becomes a farseer on a bike and runs with fortune in the spear squad. The storm guardians will be swapped for another avenger squad and ill buy them a serpant. heres how its looking now.

HQ

Farseer(A)-140
-Jetbike
-Fortune
-Runes of warding
Farseer(B)- 100
-Guide

Elite

(5)Fire Dragons-110
-Exarch
-Fire Pike
-Tank Hunters
(5)Fire Dragons-110
-Exarch
-Fire Pike
-Tank Hunters

Troops

(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon

Fast Attack

(5) Shining Spears-212
-Exarch
-Star Lance
-WithDraw

Heavy Support

Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Dark reapers-212
-Exarch
-TL
-Crack Shot


Its at 1928

Farseer A helps Shining spears Farseer B helps dark reapers.
 

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eh I always find that eldar needs survivable troops than any other army, and they will need alot of them. all Im saying is that if your cards are not played perfectly all of your troops can be tabled in a single turn.
 

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Vehicles don't need vectored engines unless you plan on moving them flat-out, give them spirit stones instead.
Give farseer A spirit stones and doom.
You don't need tank hunter's on the fire dragons, unless you really want them to explode in your face on a 4+.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 

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arseer(A)-140
-Jetbike
-Fortune
-Runes of warding
Needs Stones and Doom.

Farseer(B)- 100
-Guide
Pointless for just one power, I’d drop him, or add Stones and Fortune so you can reroll cover saves on your Reapers.

Elite
(5)Fire Dragons-110
-Exarch
-Fire Pike
-Tank Hunters
(5)Fire Dragons-110
-Exarch
-Fire Pike
-Tank Hunters
Too many upgrades that you really don’t need. Drop the Exarch for more Dragons, or if you insist on the Exarch for the flamer. It will make this unit more capable of taking hordes if this is an ‘all comers’ list.

Troops
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-190
-Bright Lances
-Vectored Engines
-Star Engines
-Chin Cannon
Too many upgrades on those Serpents. The only way I’d justify taking those would be if you had them on a Serpent that had Banshees and you wanted to do a 1st turn rush to get them in position. Stones and Chin Cannons are plenty.

With the points saved from this and the Dragons you should have enough to get a small Pathfinder squad to sit at home.



Fast Attack
(5) Shining Spears-212
-Exarch
-Star Lance
-WithDraw
Not much to say here, but I’d consider this a Hail Mary unit as if it even survives long enough to reach an opponent you might get at least on attack in, kill one unit or light vehicle, then they’ll get shot up and break.

I would not use these, period. They look good on paper, but you just spent over 200 pts. on five models. 5 TEQ’s are cheaper than this and deadlier.

Heavy Support
Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Falcon-200
-Vect Engines
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Dark reapers-212
-Exarch
-TL
-Crack Shot
Too many upgrades on the vehicles. I’d consider taking EML on this so you can have more options for busting light armor, as with only two reliable TL BL your transports could end up doing double duty killing other tanks.

good hunting.
 

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Mainly agree with with Inq. here just stated.

My main issue with the Jetseer is that if he attaches to your Spears, they lose the ability to Hit & Run. Being unable to disengage from a combat to re-charge is Death to spears. If you want a character to roll with the Spears, consider a Jetbike riding, laser lance toting Autarch. He can have 5 attacks on the charge, at WS 6. Plus, the squad can still benefit from its Exarch powers with him around.

Guideseer works ok if you are really strapped for points (which I am pretty sure was the point, Mal). If you can afford Stones and fortune, I concur wholeheartedly. Also, you math is wrong on him. Unless you ahve given him unlisted upgrades, he is 25 points too expensive.

I personally think your Dragon squads are fine, but as I previously stated, I am a player who likes the extra insurance. Feel free to lose the Firepike and just leave the Exarch with his stock melta-gun. That way you won't be tempted to only have him in melta range.

Also, the transports are pretty expensive. I would lose the Vectored engines from everything. Lose the Star Engines from the DA serpents. Keep them on the Falcons so they can extract themselves after dropping off the melta-death pay-loads to go back to gunboat duties.

Reaper squad looks good.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
HQ


Farseer- 100
-Guide
-Runes of warding

Elite

(5)Fire Dragons-102
-Exarch
-Tank Hunters
(5)Fire Dragons-102
-Exarch
-Tank Hunters

Troops

(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-135
-EML
-Chin Cannon
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-135
-EML
-Chin Cannon
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-135
-EML
-Chin Cannon
(10)Dire Avengers-132
-Exarch
-Blade storm
Wave Serpant-135
-EML
-Chin Cannon
Heavy Support

Falcon-180
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Falcon-180
-Star Engines
-Star Cannon
-Holo fields
Dark reapers-212
-Exarch
-TL
-Crack Shot

Now were at 1944

I think now with 40 Avengers and all with transports im good on troops

.......................... and I dropped the Shining Spears.
 
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