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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone

I am going to be working on a themed Blood Angels army, where every single model will be painted as Death Company to represent them all succumbing to the Black Rage. Now people will say I should use actual Death company but instead I will be using the models to represent Tactical marines (Bolters) and Assault Marines (Even though there are none in this army list). For this army I will be using the Flesh Tearers Strike Force Force Organisation from Shields of Baal. Idea is to drop the 4 Dreds and run the Assault terminators in Land Raider down my opponents throat and the Tactical marines drop onto objectives.

HQ - Librarian Dreadnought: 245 Points
Heavy Flamer, Level 2 (Biomancy), Warlord
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Location Beacon, Deathwind Launcher

HQ - Librarian Dreadnought: 235 Points
Heavy Flamer, Level 2 (Pyromancy)
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 150 Points
Heavy Flamer
Sergeant; Power Sword, Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

Stormwing Formation

Storm Raven: 225 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Typhoon Missile launcher

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher

Total: 1835 Points
Never done a Drop pod army so all new to me, What do you think?
 

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HQ - Librarian Dreadnought: 245 Points
Heavy Flamer, Level 2, Warlord
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Location Beacon, Deathwind Launcher
I have never had any luck in the 6/7 games I've tried using these bastards in. They're just too damn easy to kill and you've got them in Pods so they'll be even closer and easier to kill. They just don't land with enough of a shooting impact. What discipline were you thinking of for them?

ELITES - 8 Assault Terminators: 610 Points
Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields
Dedicated Transport - Land Raider Crusader
If you go second you will have nothing on the table for you opponent to go after aside from this, and if they've taken anywhere close to appropriate measures for anti armour then it's likely to be hobbled T1 or hiding somewhere less opportune for a strike. Walking around with hammernators can be frustrating.

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 185 Points
Heavy Flamer, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

TROOPS - Cassor the Damned: 140 Points

FAST ATTACK - Drop Pod: 50 Points
Deathwind Launcher
I'd run two frag cannon/heavy flamer ones instead. Way more impact on your enemy's army when they land, still decent after (if they don't get blown up). Not to mention, points saved.

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 135 Points
Heavy Flamer
Sergeant; Power Sword, Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 135 Points
Heavy Flamer
Sergeant; Power Sword, Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 115 Points
Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Two of these units, and one unit of Assault marines in a Drop Pod with two meltaguns and a combi-melta. It's the same points and gives you anti-armour...which this list kinda lacks outside of close combat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you @ntaw I was hoping the resident Blood Angel player would help. I have no experience with Marines and in this case I am slightly balancing a theme. I would really appreciate your help on getting this list pretty solid as I am only going to do this once and not buy more than I will use


I have never had any luck in the 6/7 games I've tried using these bastards in. They're just too damn easy to kill and you've got them in Pods so they'll be even closer and easier to kill. They just don't land with enough of a shooting impact. What discipline were you thinking of for them?
I was thinking Divination for one and no idea for the second



If you go second you will have nothing on the table for you opponent to go after aside from this, and if they've taken anywhere close to appropriate measures for anti armour then it's likely to be hobbled T1 or hiding somewhere less opportune for a strike. Walking around with hammernators can be frustrating.
Any idea for solutions, Deep Strike is probably worse
 

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I was thinking Divination for one and no idea for the second
What role do you want your Libbynaughts to fulfill on the battlefield, one man armies or buff units?

Any idea for solutions, Deep Strike is probably worse
It's just....you have this sweet Drop Pod list, but then you have this 600+ point juggernaut sitting by itself on the table likely with nowhere to completely hide. Five Terminators can fit in a Drop Pod, six in a Stormraven, both of which save you points to use elsewhere. Does that fit your theme?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
What role do you want your Libbynaughts to fulfill on the battlefield, one man armies or buff units?
Having never used Psychic powers (Tau player) I honestly dont know. I was thinking Divination to buff the terminators but one man armies sounds fantastic

It's just....you have this sweet Drop Pod list, but then you have this 600+ point juggernaut sitting by itself on the table likely with nowhere to completely hide. Five Terminators can fit in a Drop Pod, 6 in a Stormraven, both of which save you points to use elsewhere. Does that fit your theme?
Both of those options work, Stormraven will help plug the no AA gap in the army. I was actually thinking a Storm Wing formation would be pretty good, drop the Land raider and Terminators to fit it all in
 

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I was thinking Divination to buff the terminators but one man armies sounds fantastic
If you're going for buffing units Divination is the way to go, if you want to buff the Psyker go Biomancy or even Pyromancy (though Biomancy is far more reliable). I have to reiterate though that these units are at best decent when they're not your Warlord, and when they are your Warlord you're basically just saying "hey, want Slay the Warlord?" to your opponent. I know you're after a theme, but it's not just me that is having a hard time with the effectiveness of the Libbynaught. I don't know of, and haven't read about, anyone enjoying this unit outside of a total fluff match.

I was actually thinking a Storm Wing formation would be pretty good, drop the Land raider and Terminators to fit it all in
Totally works, but I tend to play Blood Angels and not Red Marines (shudder). It's a damn shame we don't get the Stormtalon (since, you know, it kinda fits the whole BA thing like a damn glove) but meh. More money for me.

EDIT: just noticed this:

I was hoping the resident Blood Angel player would help.
Guess that's why when I post a list it's crickets :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you're going for buffing units Divination is the way to go, if you want to buff the Psyker go Biomancy or even Pyromancy (though Biomancy is far more reliable). I have to reiterate though that these units are at best decent when they're not your Warlord, and when they are your Warlord you're basically just saying "hey, want Slay the Warlord?" to your opponent. I know you're after a theme, but it's not just me that is having a hard time with the effectiveness of the Libbynaught. I don't know of, and haven't read about, anyone enjoying this unit outside of a total fluff match.

Totally works, but I tend to play Blood Angels and not Red Marines (shudder). It's a damn shame we don't get the Stormtalon (since, you know, it kinda fits the whole BA thing like a damn glove) but meh. More money for me.

EDIT: just noticed this:



Guess that's why when I post a list it's crickets :laugh:
I have updated the first post and have thought of a solution. I could drop the two Librarian Dreds for another Furioso, Cassor the Damned and Librarian on foot

Agreed StormTalon is a big miss

Dont worry about posting lists, I get the same when I post Tau lists (Rarely in the scope of things)
 

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Your edit seems to be missing some stuff/not in line with what you said it was.

As an aside, I feel like it's more helpful to other people reading these threads aside from us if you show your work on lists. If we post varied incarnations of what we're talking about in comments instead of editing the original post other people can learn what's going on without reading the nitty gritty of every comment to piece together what happened. Hell, maybe there's someone lurking going "that NTAW guy is off his rocker! THIS is what it should be" but they now have no reference to the original list to show alternate points of view. I don't know if this matters at all and I'm not a mod so by all means you don't have to take it to heart. Just seems like the right way to play it :eek:k:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your edit seems to be missing some stuff/not in line with what you said it was.

As an aside, I feel like it's more helpful to other people reading these threads aside from us if you show your work on lists. If we post varied incarnations of what we're talking about in comments instead of editing the original post other people can learn what's going on without reading the nitty gritty of every comment to piece together what happened. Hell, maybe there's someone lurking going "that NTAW guy is off his rocker! THIS is what it should be" but they now have no reference to the original list to show alternate points of view. I don't know if this matters at all and I'm not a mod so by all means you don't have to take it to heart. Just seems like the right way to play it :eek:k:
Fair enough, I will do that in future. So I updated the list and have thought of the next possible update and would like your opinion. Drop LibDreds for Furioso, Cassor the Damned and Librarian on foot
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Third Update:

HQ - Librarian: 90 Points
Level 2 (Divination)

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

TROOP - Cassor the Damned: 140 Points

FAST ATTACK - Drop Pod: 50 Points
Deathwind Launcher

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 150 Points
Heavy Flamer
Sergeant; Power Sword, Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs, Power Sword
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs, Power Sword
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

Stormwing Formation

Storm Raven: 225 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Typhoon Missile launcher

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher
 

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All of your infantry squads are small 'use once and destroy' kind of units, where were you thinking of putting the footslogging Libby?

I feel like I'd sooner drop the Tactical squad in your list up top for Cassor and take the typhoon missile launcher off the Stormraven to give him a Drop Pod (15 points extra in that list, no?). If you want to put a DWML on the Pod you can always drop the locator beacon in the one instance you have it. Tac squad is 150, 15 points extra plus the locator beacon and TML is 190: all you need for Cassor and a DWML Pod.

Does your theme extend past the army's paint job?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
All of your infantry squads are small 'use once and destroy' kind of units, where were you thinking of putting the footslogging Libby?

I feel like I'd sooner drop the Tactical squad in your list up top for Cassor and take the typhoon missile launcher off the Stormraven to give him a Drop Pod (15 points extra in that list, no?). If you want to put a DWML on the Pod you can always drop the locator beacon in the one instance you have it. Tac squad is 150, 15 points extra plus the locator beacon and TML is 190: all you need for Cassor and a DWML Pod.

Does your theme extend past the army's paint job?
I was thinking the Tactical squad

Not sure I follow sorry, drop Cassor for large unit of Tactical marines? Cassor already has a drop pod

Paint scheme and not taking actual Death company because I would not be easily able to distinguish between them and my other marines on the board
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Update, gone more Red Marines here than just Blood Angels

Flesh Tearers Strike Force

HQ - Sanguinary Priest: 95 Points
Melta bombs, Lightning Claw, Jump pack

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer

FAST ATTACK - Drop Pod: 50 Points
Deathwind Launcher

TROOPS - 5 Tactical Marines: 130 Points
Heavy Flamer
Sergeant; Power weapon
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT - Storm Raven: 200 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-Melta

HEAVY SUPPORT - Storm Raven: 200 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-Melta

Skyhammer Annihilation Force

FAST ATTACK - 10 Assault Marines: 215 Points
2 Flamers
Veteran Sergeant; Power Fist

FAST ATTACK - 10 Assault Marines: 220 Points
2 Flamers
Veteran Sergeant; Melta bombs, Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT - 10 Devastators: 215 Points
4 Multi-Meltas
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT - 10 Devastators: 215 Points
4 Multi-Meltas
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

What do you think?
 

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Ha! Sorry, over new year's I forgot to reply.

Not sure I follow sorry, drop Cassor for large unit of Tactical marines? Cassor already has a drop pod
I mean this:

HQ - Librarian Dreadnought: 245 Points
Heavy Flamer, Level 2 (Biomancy), Warlord
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

HQ - Librarian Dreadnought: 235 Points
Heavy Flamer, Level 2 (Pyromancy)
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

TROOPS - Cassor the Damned: 140

FAST ATTACK - Drop Pod
Deathwind Missile Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - 5 Assault Marines: 125 Points
2 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Melta bombs
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

FAST ATTACK - Land Speeder: 70 Points
Heavy Flamer, Melta gun

Stormwing Formation

Storm Raven: 200 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher

Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile launcher

Total: 1850 (?) Points
I can see how that was worded real weird...might have already started drinking :grin:

As for your new list..

HQ - Sanguinary Priest: 95 Points
Melta bombs, Lightning Claw, Jump pack
His WS buff is useless on Red Marines, maybe drop his jump pack and put him in with the Tactical squad? I don't know how I feel about this guy here.

FAST ATTACK - 10 Assault Marines: 220 Points
2 Flamers
Veteran Sergeant; Melta bombs, Power Fist
Melta bombs and a power fist?

HEAVY SUPPORT - 10 Devastators: 215 Points
4 Multi-Meltas
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Why not have them equipped with grav? Higher rate of fire, better against units the better their armour is, still AP2, Immobilize/Wrecks Vehicles. They just about outclass the multi-melta, though I think they might be more points as a result. They're a lot more expensive but if if you're using that Formation you're going for the throat anyway right? Make it as effective as it can be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As for your new list..



His WS buff is useless on Red Marines, maybe drop his jump pack and put him in with the Tactical squad? I don't know how I feel about this guy here.



Melta bombs and a power fist?



Why not have them equipped with grav? Higher rate of fire, better against units the better their armour is, still AP2, Immobilize/Wrecks Vehicles. They just about outclass the multi-melta, though I think they might be more points as a result. They're a lot more expensive but if if you're using that Formation you're going for the throat anyway right? Make it as effective as it can be.
Oops two mistakes. Could run a Librarian or Chaplain instead, thoughts?. Melta bombs is an oversight.

I considered Grav and to put 4 in each squad is 200 more points. Prefer that 2nd Storm Raven to be honest
 

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Could run a Librarian or Chaplain instead, thoughts?
Maybe check out the Archangels Strike Force instead of the Flesh Tearers one? Your BA detachment could literally be three Drop Pods: two Fragiosos and some Sternguard with a TDA Libby casting Prescience on them. Leaves more points for the kill factors from the SM dex that you're now leaning toward...if it's even worth taking if you want to go Red Marines. You can still get your anti air from the Stormwing Formation. Might need to drop those Devastator squads down to a svelte five marines to accommodate.

Prefer that 2nd Storm Raven to be honest
How many Fliers are you facing at this points level? I own two Stormravens because they're cool and I thought I'd need them but I rarely even take one since Vector Strike and Heldrakes changed. The only thing that really makes me jump to my 'Ravens is Fire Raptors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Maybe check out the Archangels Strike Force instead of the Flesh Tearers one? Your BA detachment could literally be three Drop Pods: two Fragiosos and some Sternguard with a TDA Libby casting Prescience on them. Leaves more points for the kill factors from the SM dex that you're now leaning toward...if it's even worth taking if you want to go Red Marines. You can still get your anti air from the Stormwing Formation. Might need to drop those Devastator squads down to a svelte five marines to accommodate.

How many Fliers are you facing at this points level? I own two Stormravens because they're cool and I thought I'd need them but I rarely even take one since Vector Strike and Heldrakes changed. The only thing that really makes me jump to my 'Ravens is Fire Raptors.
Cannot take Librarians in an Archangels strike force if I remember but I do like that idea as currently that tactical squad is more tax than anything else (Edit: Remember nowhas to be in Terminator armour)

I dont play against fliers a lot I just like fliers. Having never played with a Stormraven, is it not good against ground targets?
 

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Cannot take Librarians in an Archangels strike force
As you remembered, yep you sure can. Captain (or Karlaen), Librarian, or Chaplain provided they take Terminator armour (even though there's Mephiston in the picture leading the charge :angry:).

Having never played with a Stormraven, is it not good against ground targets?
Not nearly as good as I ever wanted it to be. I have used mine specifically in an anti-air role pretty much since the inception of Fliers. If I need my Stormraven to be able to deal with infantry I'll put a Fragioso inside it :laugh:

There's a lot that out-shoots it for way less points when it comes to herd thinning from both Codices, though more I'm sure if you do go Red Marines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Not nearly as good as I ever wanted it to be. I have used mine specifically in an anti-air role pretty much since the inception of Fliers. If I need my Stormraven to be able to deal with infantry I'll put a Fragioso inside it :laugh:

There's a lot that out-shoots it for way less points when it comes to herd thinning. How much is a Thunderfire Cannon again?
Point taken its about 100 point I believe

As you remembered, yep you sure can. Captain (or Karlaen), Librarian, or Chaplain provided they take Terminator armour (even though there's Mephiston in the picture leading the charge :angry:).
So based on this, quickly knocked up this, its 1820 Points so 30 points to spend on upgrading Librarian or Combi weapons or something else. Had to sacrifice 5 Devastators and 2 Multi-meltas.

ArchAngels Strike Force

HQ - Librarian: 115 Points
Terminator Armour, Force Sword, Level 2

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITES - Furioso Dreadnought: 180 Points
Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod
Deathwind Launcher

ELITE - 5 Sternguard: 145 Points
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Storm Wing

FAST ATTACK - Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

FAST ATTACK - Storm Talon: 115 Points
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

HEAVY SUPPORT - Storm Raven: 200 Points
Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-Melta

Skyhammer Annihilation Force

FAST ATTACK - 10 Assault Marines: 215 Points
2 Flamers
Veteran Sergeant; Power Fist

FAST ATTACK - 10 Assault Marines: 215 Points
2 Flamers
Veteran Sergeant; Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT - 10 Devastators: 215 Points
4 Multi-Meltas
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT - 5 Devastators: 125 Points
2 Multi-Meltas
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

What do you think?
 

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If you like Fliers, I'm really enjoying the Raptor Wing formation. It's technically Ravenguard, but can be used for any Codex marines, and since its all vehicles, the chapter tactics mean nothing.

1 squad of Speeder (I'd probably run a double melta, because you want to be in close for the benefits) and 2 Stormtalons.

Cheaper by far than using the Stormraven, still gives you some good anti-air, and you could use the points to get some of those devastators back.
 
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