Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the boards, but I've been playing CSM for about six months now, after having started with tyranids in 6th edition. I've played in a few campaigns but I've never gone to a tournament before. I was hoping to hear some more experienced Chaos players comments on the list I've dreamed up.

This won't be a super-competitive tourney (all the competitive players should be at another tournament about an hour away) so I'm more concerned with having fun than with beating everyone I come up against. That said, I would like a list that stands a chance of winning at least one of the three matches i'll be in. Without further ado...

HQ:
Chaos Lord w/ MoK, Bike, Sigil of Corruption, AoBF, melta bombs: 160pts
Kharn the Betrayer: 160pts

Troops:
Cultists x20, autopistols: 90pts
CSM x 9 w/CCW's and Bolt Pistols, 1x Meltagun, MoK, Icon of Wrath: 175pts
Khorne Berzerkers (CCW's) x10, Icon of Wrath, Melta bombs and 2x lightning claws on the champ: 250pts

Fast Attack:
Heldrake w/ Baleflamer, 170pts
Bikers x 9, MoK, Icon of Wrath, 1x Meltagun: 238pts

Hvy Support:
Land Raider with Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade: 240pts
Land Raider with Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade: 240pts
Predator with Lascannon sponsons, autocannon turret, havoc launcher: 127pts

Obviously it's a bumrush list, focused on charging right in and delivering the deadly Kharn and Chaos Lord. Kharn rides in one of the land raiders with the vanilla CSM, while another land raider brings the berzerkers. The Chaos lord and his bikers will try to stay behind the land raiders until they're ready to charge. Simple, and I hope effective.

I'd prefer to keep to the spirit of the army, but I welcome any advice on what can make it work better. I know it will be a small tourney, there will be at least 2 ork players and an eldar player, but apart from that I don't know who I'll face.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Welcome to the boards, Heretic.
The list could work but i'd make some changes.
1) remove icon of wrath from zerkers: you are charging from a landraider, so yuo'll probably be near the objective
2)split cultists in 2 squads for better objective grabbing.
3)icon on bikers too, is redundant, imo. drop it and take another meltagun and a combimelta
4) predator...meh...only shooty part of the army.not going to help. a Maulerfiend, instead, could add a nice punch to your infantry assault!
GLORY TO CHAOS!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the advice!

The icons may be unnecessary, but I really hate having no recourse if I whiff a charge. Still, a few more meltas would be nice...

The predator is only there to crack transports so we can charge the soft, squishy things inside. Im afraid I don't have a maulerfiend model yet either. I thought about switching the predator for havocs with lascannons/autoguns, though. Any thoughts?
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
Welcome to the boards! Glory to the Dark Gods! Skull for His Throne, etc!

Have you considered fielding this list as a Combined Arms Detachent from the new Khorne: Daemonkin book? You would have to ally in Kharn and, say, the cultists, and would lose the dirge casters on the Land Raiders... but you'd gain the Blood Tithe points giving basically your whole army Feel No Pain and such, after you kill/lose a few units.

Chaos Lord w/ MoK, Bike, Sigil of Corruption, AoBF, melta bombs: 160pts
Aww, no Juggernaut? I mean, yeah, you can't go Flat Out or Jink, but... +1A and +1W is a worthy swap, I think!

CSM x 9 w/CCW's and Bolt Pistols, 1x Meltagun, MoK, Icon of Wrath: 175pts
Khorne Berzerkers (CCW's) x10, Icon of Wrath, Melta bombs and 2x lightning claws on the champ: 250pts
Two things here--first off, Berzerkers don't suffer any penalty for being lowered to 9 minis in the squad, while the CSM can get another melta if they go up to 10. I know that the 'Zerkers are already a sort of dedicated melee slaughter-nasty unit, to some degree, but... have you considered throwing Kharn into them and filling out the CSM squad a bit more?

Then would probably come swapping the gear on the Zerker Champ onto the CSM champ (WS4 though he only is, ah well), if the CSM are no longer supported by Kharn. From there, I might well argue that you should swap the meltabombs and the second lightning claw in favor of a power fist--fisticlaws is still 2 Specialist Weapons, so you get the bonus attacks, but then the champ can address 2+ armor saves in addition to mere tanks. Only a few points more, too!


Welcome to the boards, Heretic.
The list could work but i'd make some changes.
1) remove icon of wrath from zerkers: you are charging from a landraider, so yuo'll probably be near the objective
2)split cultists in 2 squads for better objective grabbing.
3)icon on bikers too, is redundant, imo. drop it and take another meltagun and a combimelta
4) predator...meh...only shooty part of the army.not going to help. a Maulerfiend, instead, could add a nice punch to your infantry assault!
I'm going to quibble with a few of these points: I've made some very important charges thanks to being able to reroll a flubbed roll, on Icons of Wrath. Especially on bikers, who aren't disembarking from a Land Raider into the enemy's face but having to actually run up. IoW also help if you want to kill some foes with shooting and still be in a reliable assault range!

Another meltagun on the bikes is solid advice, though. And honestly, I'd say--9 bikers is kind of a massive squad. Have you considered shaving it down to 7 or 8, just so that you have more points to go around? I mean, I'm sure they perform their melta duties and act as a retinue to the Lord, being some ablative wounds from enemy shooting before you get stuck in... I rather think that a few less minis in the squad can accomplish that without being overkill.

As far as the Predator--well, that's a value judgement. If you take the Predator, you have a decent spitting chance at getting First Blood, whereas if you commit all out with the Maulerfiend, you have a more potent assault wave... but are basically guaranteeing that you will give up First Blood.

Well, perhaps not with this list: you only have hard targets and large squads. Which is in itself an argument for more armor tearing up the field alongside the Land Raiders--and Maulerfiends are good fun, whether you have them cracking tanks with magma cutters or tying up Wraiths or MCs with lasher tendrils. If someone kills 5 cultists and gets them to flee of the board, or something. An argument to hold those cultists in reserve, I suppose. This is assuming that Kharn fills the empty slot in one of the Land Raiders and isn't making them Fearless, of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the advice guys! And the warm, warped welcome. :)

Aww, no Juggernaut? I mean, yeah, you can't go Flat Out or Jink, but... +1A and +1W is a worthy swap, I think!
I agree! But alas I don't have a model to use for the juggernaut yet. While proxies are allowed for this tournament, I'm going to try and stick with the bike for now. Maybe I can whip up a juggernaut from some of my old 'nid bits eventually.

Two things here--first off, Berzerkers don't suffer any penalty for being lowered to 9 minis in the squad, while the CSM can get another melta if they go up to 10. I know that the 'Zerkers are already a sort of dedicated melee slaughter-nasty unit, to some degree, but... have you considered throwing Kharn into them and filling out the CSM squad a bit more?

Then would probably come swapping the gear on the Zerker Champ onto the CSM champ (WS4 though he only is, ah well), if the CSM are no longer supported by Kharn. From there, I might well argue that you should swap the meltabombs and the second lightning claw in favor of a power fist--fisticlaws is still 2 Specialist Weapons, so you get the bonus attacks, but then the champ can address 2+ armor saves in addition to mere tanks. Only a few points more, too!
I agree with you about the 'zerkers; they're definitely less affected by losing a man than the CSM. My rationale behind sticking Kharn with the CSM is that his 1's will be killing slightly cheaper models. Another melta would be nice, but Gorechild is already armorbane, so is it really neccesary?

Fisticlaws on a champ sounds risky to me; I'm uneasy putting so many points on a 1W model as is. But he'd definitely be more versatile. I'd prefer the WS5 of the berzerker champ but I guess it comes down to how many meltas I want to field. (Could always do a combi-melta, I suppose.)

And regarding the bikes; I'll try shrinking the squad down a bit, though where to spend...:grin:

Any advice on who should be the warlord? Kharn or the Lord?

Welcome to the boards, Heretic.
The list could work but i'd make some changes.
1) remove icon of wrath from zerkers: you are charging from a landraider, so yuo'll probably be near the objective
2)split cultists in 2 squads for better objective grabbing.
3)icon on bikers too, is redundant, imo. drop it and take another meltagun and a combimelta
4) predator...meh...only shooty part of the army.not going to help. a Maulerfiend, instead, could add a nice punch to your infantry assault!
Icons have saved my bacon on a number of assaults, I'm with Mossy on this. I've never tried fielding cultist squads smaller than 15; I'm always worried about morale checks with them. If you think they can be effective (perhaps holding in reserve?) then it would offer more objective-grabbing power.

The predator is there to hopefully crack open transports so my guys can assault the squishy things inside when they roll up. I don't have a maulerfiend model yet, though it's on the list. I was also thinking of running a squad of havocs with autocannons/lascannons, but the predator looks like a better value to me for that purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
I've made some very important charges thanks to being able to reroll a flubbed roll, on Icons of Wrath. Especially on bikers, who aren't disembarking from a Land Raider into the enemy's face but having to actually run up. IoW also help if you want to kill some foes with shooting and still be in a reliable assault range
i guess you are right...the two IoW are a minor usage of points that can, however, be game changing. Still, its really needed only to the bikers, imo.
As far as the Predator--well, that's a value judgement. If you take the Predator, you have a decent spitting chance at getting First Blood, whereas if you commit all out with the Maulerfiend, you have a more potent assault wave... but are basically guaranteeing that you will give up First Blood.
i think that first blood will be either given by cultists if not reserved or any other single choice we could make here. A predator is going to die as easy as a maulerfiend. only good choice could be a beefed up havoc squad, so the opponent has to deal with 6-8 Marines in cover 40-48" away to get that point. maybe 30-40 pts more costly, but better for list resilience. Still, adding more armoured threats to the list incredibly benefits the land raiders. more armour means the enemy has to split its firepower to take the tanks down. 2 landraidrìer can be singled out and melted away pretty fast. Thats why i still advocates the maulerfiend. If you melt him, the raiders are fine, but if you melt a raider, the maulerfiend will then..well..maul you!
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
A predator is going to die as easy as a maulerfiend.
Objection! AV13 across the field dies much slower than AV12 sprinting forward into melta range, unless the enemy are Drop Podding in or something. Hehe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
rejected! AV 13 compared to an AV 12 with 5++ is the same for long range firepower while definitely better against melta! :laugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So I realized I never updated this! Wanted to say thanks again. Tournament was a great time, ten guys total, everyone got three games in.

My first round was a maelstrom mission against a Tau player, who brought 3 riptides and 6 units of 3 crisis suits. I lost; he didn't have much he could do against my land raiders, but the bikers only got one charge in, and all his shooting eventually brought me down.

Second round I played a space wolves/grey nights army. Biker lord charged and slaughtered a unit of ten GK terminators on turn 1 (lol) and immidiately turned into a daemon prince (doh!) who got killed with the next squad DS'ed in. But I just ignored that squad and took out the rest of his units, winning the game.

Third round I played Ork/Tau allies. Berserkers did heavy work, charging a squad of 30 boys and coming out on top. Kharn and his unit got their shit wrecked by a failed charge (reroll also failed...I didn't think 9 inches would be that bad) but in the end I won.

When points were tallied I somehow came in second. I also won a sportsmanship award for $20 store credit. Thanks again for all the advice, I'm already planning my next tourney list. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
So I realized I never updated this! Wanted to say thanks again. Tournament was a great time, ten guys total, everyone got three games in.

My first round was a maelstrom mission against a Tau player, who brought 3 riptides and 6 units of 3 crisis suits. I lost; he didn't have much he could do against my land raiders, but the bikers only got one charge in, and all his shooting eventually brought me down.

Second round I played a space wolves/grey nights army. Biker lord charged and slaughtered a unit of ten GK terminators on turn 1 (lol) and immidiately turned into a daemon prince (doh!) who got killed with the next squad DS'ed in. But I just ignored that squad and took out the rest of his units, winning the game.

Third round I played Ork/Tau allies. Berserkers did heavy work, charging a squad of 30 boys and coming out on top. Kharn and his unit got their shit wrecked by a failed charge (reroll also failed...I didn't think 9 inches would be that bad) but in the end I won.

When points were tallied I somehow came in second. I also won a sportsmanship award for $20 store credit. Thanks again for all the advice, I'm already planning my next tourney list. :)
Excellent. And trust me: you actually WON the tourney. We are NOT taking seriously the Tau guy with the "I-have-social-issues" list. Great great work expecially for the Sportmanship prize. :eek:k:
If you happen to be in Italy, i'd love to have a game :)
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top