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232 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So some one suggested I made a post for advice in how to creat a list to stop my friends cheese FMC list.
This is what He usually brings, 3 Flyrants, 10 Hormogaunts, 2 groups of 10 Gargoyles, Biovoars ( some formation where he gets to re roll all misses, and only rerolls the scatter dice) 2 Venomthropes, Tyrannocyte that carries a Tyrannofex, then last time he palyed me he also brought a Mawlock.

So here is what I have to fight back with

2 Bloodthisters,
1 Daemon Prince
1 Bel'kor
35 Bloodletters
20 Marnies
25 cultists
1 Helbrute
1 Heldrake
Ageis Defence Line
2 spawn

Daemon Allies:
20+ plague bearers
2 units of 3 Nurglings

I also Have a Knight i was thinking I could bring as well.

So if you want please help me find a way to end the cheese lol

3,700 Posts
mmh...honestly i see few options to end his cheesing.
I'd absolutely bring the Knight, the battlecannon one.
then, aegis with quadgun, manned by a khorne herald, with another 9 bloodletters hiding behind the aegis.
heldrake, then be'lakor.

but honestly you have too few of the cheesy stuff that makes chaos good...

I'd use:

Hades cannon drake
Hellblade with helcannons
a nurgle daemon prince w wings and armour and black mace of dooooom

10 cultists
10 cultists
imperial bunker+quadgun
5 havocs w/4 lascannons
5 havocs w/4 lascannons
@Mossy Toes , @venomlust let's help this poor heretic!

2,558 Posts
BAH I typed out a ton of stuff then accidentally closed the window...

Here we go again. I don't know too much about Tyranids, but here are some thoughts:

Be'lakor: Yes. Invisibility on something important like the Heldrake (or whatever), and Shrouding to give anything behind the ADL a 2+ cover save. Invisibility should also protect whatever unit from being hit by the Mawloc, because they have to place a large blast template to hit, right? I think Be'lakor would be ideal to take out the Tyrannofex, because he's going to get his 2+ cover save to shooting no matter where he is, and Flyrants can shoot him at normal BS anyway. They can't shoot him if he's locked in combat, and he can still cast psychic powers as needed.

Daemon Prince: Run him as Nurgle from the Daemons codex, ML3 with all 3 points in Telepathy. Also very expensive, but can do a lot of damage with Psychic Shriek and if you're lucky you can have a second chance at Invisibility/Shrouding in case Be'lakor perils. The 2+ jink will allow you to be aggressive with his positioning. Any turn spent shooting at him with Flyrants means they aren't shooting your more vulnerable units. He can also vector strike, which can add a wound or two to a flyrant. It would make him even more expensive to give him a Balesword, but he'd make quick work of a lot of stuff should he get a charge off.

CSM as Noise Marines: Gives you some S8 AP3 Ignores Cover small blasts to plink away at his back-field stuff while ignoring the buffs from the Venomthropes.

Helbrute + Cultists: Helcult Formation. 2 units of fearless cultists to protect the Helbrute, who can be armed with whatever seems best. 2 Fists + 2 Heavy Flamers could work, or maybe 1 Fist/Flamer + Missile Launcher. Perhaps a Thunder Hammer instead to hunt down MCs while using the Cultists to bubble wrap him and provide 3+ saves with their deaths.

Heldrake: I'd personally run it with a baleflamer, because there's still a pretty big chance you're going to miss all your shots. If Hive Tyrants have a 3+ then I'm not sure it's worth it. If they have a 4+ then it could definitely be worth it. The drake will probably be most useful just erasing his objective holders while ignoring shrouded from the Venomthropes. As long as the tyrants can't shoot his rear armor, they'll have to roll 6's to glance (assuming their shots are only s6 max).

ADL + Quad Gun for sure: 2+ cover from Shrouding, without going to ground, is pretty sweet. Bloodletters/Herald of Khorne on the quad gun will more or less guarantee you'll hit.

Nurglings make a nice minimum troop investment for an allied/CA detachment, and can scramble around to grab an objective.

You can also run your 2 Spawn as Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle, if your opponent is cool with that. They will probably accomplish much more than they would as Spawn.

A completely left-field suggestion is to build a promethium pipe relay out of a couple dollars worth of PVC pipe from your local hardware store. This fortification allows you to give flamer weapons the torrent rule, along with a 4+ cover save. That means even cultists can torch fools in the middle of the board. If you do this with the Nurgle Obliterators they can toss out 2 Heavy Flamer templates followed by 2 twin-linked flamer templates. It's sort of a gimmick and it can backfire because when something happens (I forget what) you can suffer a small blast, but it could still be hilariously effective at wiping out his wave of gaunts/goyles as they come at you, bro.

I don't have a lot of experience fighting 'nids in 7th, but hopefully something I've mentioned will give you some ideas.

Entropy Fetishist
4,224 Posts
3 Flyrants are really, really a pain in the rear end for CSM, given their lack of good anti-air. That problem is only made worse in the Daemonkin book: a Vector Strike and Lash of Khorne ain't much to speak of, for some damned expensive minis...

Flyrants can't hurt AV13+, like they say, but I'm not seeing any bunkers, Soul Grinders, Land Raiders, etc, in your list example there, so the best you could bring is a Knight and hope they don't get too many 6s to glance on multiple facings, with those Flyrants--and it's not like the Knight can do anything to the Flyrants by way of reply, or anything.

I'd start with a Heldrake with a HAC and a quadgun--though they're only AP4, they should put some wounds on the Flyrants by weight of numbers. Beware Vector Striking with the Heldrake, because though it's a good tool for finishing off a badly injured Flyrant (D3 hits that wound on 3+ with no saves? Yay!), you can also expect them to turn around and dump their 12 twin-linked S6 shots into your AV10 rear if they survive the Vector Strike.

I really like Be'lakor, though you need to take care to hide him--even with Shrouded for a 2+ jink save, you can expect him to be the center of Flyrant focus-firing, unless you safely cover him in Invisibility--and with 3 Flyrants, your opponent will be able to get a goodly number of dispels dice to throw at Invisibility. So hide Be'lakor behind some sort of LoS blocking terrain T1, if at all possible. He might make for some decent AA, especially if you've burned your opponents' dispel dice on Invisibility: he could Vector Strike a Flyrant for a shot at some wounds, then follow it up with Psychic Shriek.

That said, you're unlikely to have too many power dice in a a Khorne army list, and you need to ally Be'lakor in already just in order to be able to field him, since Daemonkin aren't a Daemons or CSM codex list, they're their own thing. Be'lakor and 3 nurglings isn't half bad of an allied detachment, though...

Plaguebearer Poisoned is great for killing Nid MCs (on the ground at least), but I wouldn't take them on account of biovores and Mawlocs: if you want them to cross No Man's Land before T4, you have to DS them, and Slow and Purposeful means no running to spread out right after that tightly clustered DS in.

With Daemonkin and your collection of minis, you can't out-Skyfire a triple-flyrant list, so going the 2 Thirster, Be'lakor list would be a seriously uphill battle all the way. That said, you do have one advantage they don't: if Be'lakor manages to cast Invisibility on himself (on top of his 2+ cover) and Shrouding when Bloodthirsters are within 6", they can jink for 2+ cover too. That means less Skyfire that isn't snapping shots on anybody that the enemy Flyrants manages to force to jink, but makes your FMCs a lot harder to put down than his--as long as they stay tightly clustered. Well, I guess to have a knot of them triple-Vector Striking single Flyrants, you might be able to deal with that foe...

A concern is number of Warp Charge, with only 3+D6. You might want to consider taking 11 Pink Horrors as Be'lakor's allied Troops, if only to fund Be'lakor's power-casting.

Going full MSU with as many small units as possible sounds tempting, but... has the downside that if a Flyrant can wipe out one small unit per turn, and your opponent has 3 Flyrants... I don't care how many units you bring, that's 15 units dead by T5 from his HQ choices alone. It's not a very viable counter, I think, unless most of your army is stuck in close combat the whole game so he can't shoot at it.

If I were playing with my own collection, I would probably bring about 35 Flesh Hounds in 7 squads, just to Scout up and assault the enemy and tie up his army T1 or T2, so he'll only get one round of Flyrants shooting at those 7 units before they're stuck in, but... that's on me, not on what you have that you're able to bring, and that's a lot of minis to buy.

580 Posts
More Cowbell. Heldrake meteoric decent is great against flyrants, to stave off the loss of viable troops might I suggest cultists.... otherwise more heldrakes. Or fmc of your own, with heldrakes the price is not too bad for its anti air smash out.

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