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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1850 Eldar - I Suck!

Hello All

My name's Will, this is my first time posting here. Everyone seems pretty nice, so I thought I would start a thread and ask for help.

First things first, I 100% admit, I suck. So anyone who wants to post "you suck, play another army," all I can say is "yep, I suck, but it's Eldar or bust at this point. I've no time or money to start another army from scratch."

Okay, we good? Good. Here's what I usually field

HQ
Avatar
Eldrad

Elites
8 to 10 Banshees, Exarch with Executioner and Counter Attack
Ride in a Wave Serpent usually with Shuriken Cannons

8 Fire Dragons
Ride in a Wave Serpent, usually with Cannons

Fast Attack
Vyper with a Missile Launcher

Troops
10 Dire Avengers Exarch with Bladestorm
Ride in a Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannons

10 Guardians with a scatter laser platform and a warlock with either conceal or embolden

10 Storm Guardians, Warlock with Enhance, 2 fusion guns

Heavy
1 Wraithlord with a Shuriken Cannon and a Wraithblade
1 Wraithlord with a Bright lance and EML
2 War Walkers with 2 scatter lasers each (as a unit)

Basically the Avatar and Wraithlord with the blade walk forward to draw fire. The storm guardians walk behind them, usually with Eldrad attached. Eldrad fortunes, dooms and guides things as necessary.

The 3 wave serpents stay close together and shoot up past the avatar/lord. When the time is right, the fire dragons disembark and pop a tank. Then the dire avengers bladestorm whatever falls out. Then the banshees mop up.

Two weeks ago I got whupped by vanilla marines fielding at least 8,000 rhinos and 16,000 plasma cannons. yesterday I got whupped by Nidzilla with about 45 monstrous creatures pooping out little gaunts. Before that, I got whupped by Blood Angels with a dreadnaught that got more attacks every time it killed things. Before THAT, I got my butt handed to me by space wolves.

So, any help would be, you know, helpful. I have no idea how to handle the 5th edition game play of tons of tanks and tons of monstrous creatures. Most of the people I play against play some variation of marines, and one guy plays tyranids.

Thanks!​
 

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first off, welcome to Heresy as to the list: the main issue is what models do you own. you mentioned you can't start another army, but what can you buy/borrow?

regardless, here's my advice.

drop the Avatar: put Eldrad with the Banshees.

take TL BL on the Serpent (all of them if you can do it)

Dragons are OK by me: a lot of people will say you have too many Fire Dragons, but at the same time, why not? an Exarch is OK, and more Dragons could mean they'll see play longer than one round. five of these guys is a suicide unit as far as i'm concerned, which, if you're gong to run them like that reduce your current amount.

lose he Vyper.

your Avengers look OK.

lose the Storm Guardians, add 5 Guardians to your standard Guardians, keep them in cover: get an EML, and give them Embolden. give your Warlock the Spirit Seer upgrade.

drop one Wraith Lord; either give EML/BL or go with a Sword + BL. the second option will keep the Wraithlord cheaper, and make your opponent reconsider charging your lines with most units. any opponents with PFs and rending weapons will shred through Wraith Lords.

if you have any points left try to get more DA in Serpents, or you could increase the size of your War Walker squadron, or even take Dark Reapers.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the advice and the welcome! One quick question, what does TL stand for?

Here's what I own:
Yriel
another Farseer with a 3 man warlock counsel
an autarch
5 dark reapers
8 swooping hawks
another vyper with a scatter laser
10 scorpions
8 rangers/pathfinders

Now, specific questions if that's okay.

drop the Avatar
Any specific reason why? He's been pretty effective for me at least at soaking up shots and tar-pitting most stuff.

your Avengers look OK
oddly enough, these are my least effective units. They do nothing. I average 4-5 wounds per bladestorm, which my opponent usually saves, and then the avengers get charged and wiped out.

Not that I'm against any of your advice of course! Just hoping to have more of a dialogue so that I can improve.
 

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TL is short for Twin-Linked, which is handy thanks to the Serpents' mediocre ballistic skill. Being TL makes the Serpent probably one of our most efficient Bright Lance users.

The suggestion to drop the Avatar is most likely due to the points level at which you are playing. After you start getting into decently sized games there just end up being too many things that can easily wound the Avatar. Granted he is still tough and it will take a few shots but there will be more things wounding him on a 2+ and he will be too slow to get into combat. Granted he would be much tougher with Eldrad's Fortune support but that could require keeping Eldrad back from another squad that could benefit more from his presence (the Banshees).

You Dire Avengers being OK is due to them being almost the standard set up. You could give the Exarch dual catapults for more shots, and you would then be using the standard Avenger set up. Against Marines and such normal Avengers are likely to only cause 3-4 wounds Blade Storming and Ork Boyz should see about 11 dead. If you utilize you're 18" range well enough you won't likely be charged in the subsequent round, though you may be shot. The optimal Blade Storm situation would be to have a Farseer guide them and doom the target. This should roughly double the amount of kills a blade storm is likely to achieve. Of course it would either mean a 2nd Farseer or Eldrad in that Serpent.

Personally, I am a bigger fan of Pathfinders than Guardians. Pathfinders would be a major help taking out Terminators and MCs while still being far away with 2+ cover saves. Granted they die just as easy as Guardians to a flamer but they are much harder to get to if you are willing to move. The fact they ignore difficult terrain makes them that much better at avoiding enemies. However, they won't give the Wraithlords that Psyker support...

You priority is going to be popping transports, then Doom and/or Blade Storm (Guided) Banshee (Fortuned) the contents. Or kill the Tervigons, as their death will likely kill a good handful of their spawn. You don't need to be going too slow. Half the fun of Eldar is being much faster than other races due to our Grav Tanks. So do your best to pick and chose your battles, and pick off the stragglers.
 

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oddly enough, these are my least effective units. They do nothing. I average 4-5 wounds per bladestorm, which my opponent usually saves, and then the avengers get charged and wiped out.
not a problem; ultimately it's your list, i just like thinking about 40K and building armies.

if your DA are ineffective, i would recommend one of two things: drop the Exarch and take 10 standard DA, or drop the unit to five for a fast annoying scoring unit in a Serpent. you'll see this set up (5 DA in a Wave Serpent) referred to at Heresy as a DAVU (Dire Avenger Vehicle Unit). very effective. even with TL BL you get a scoring unit for way less than 250 pts.

or you could take the Exarch with Defend, Shimmer Shield, and a PW. you reduce the number of attacks coming at your DA unit by one per model, so say you fire your Avenger Shuricats, and then assault. pretty nasty.

TL is short for Twin-Linked...The suggestion to drop the Avatar is most likely due to the points level at which you are playing.
yes to both counts, but more importantly, Eldrad with the Banshees will make them a more powerful unit. look at it this way, with Eldrad + Avatar your buffing one slow, pondering unit. with the Banshees, you're buffing 10 models that always go first in the 1st round of assault with PW.

with Eldrad there, you should kill at least one enemy model per turn, not to mention if you Doom the opposing unit you've tangled with, your Banshees' puny S3 is not so terrible.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey, I appreciate the help, and I need this kind of discussion/thinking. I've been playing the Eldar for 4 years now, completely alone and in a vacuum. The only place I ever tried to get help was the Tau Online Forum, and I got the "go play another army" line from them. Rage's 5th edition tactica has been a very educational read for me.

I see your point on the avatar. I was running Yriel with the Banshees for a while. What if I drop the Avatar for Yriel, and put Eldrad with the Dire Avengers? I'm thinking then that I can get a solid gun line with the guardians, war walkers, wraithlord and maybe reapers...

Or I could put Eldrad with the gun line to fortune, doom and guide...

And I've been toying with putting some rangers back in the list especially for monstrous creatures. Any opinions on their effectiveness in 5th?

I've never found the dire avengers to be effective on the charge with their 3 strength... so I'd rather keep them kitted for shooting/bladestorming. I'll just have to be more careful with that 18 inch range.

So here's what I'm toying with

HQ
Eldrad
Yriel

Elites
10 Banshees, Exarch with Executioner and Counter Attack
Rides in Wave Serpent with TL BL

8 Fire Dragons
Rides in Wave Serpent with TL BL

Fast Attack
Vyper with Eldar Missile Launcher

Troops
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Bladestorm and 2 catapults
Rides in Wave Serpent with TL BL

10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock with Embolden

6 Pathfinders

Heavy
Wraithlord with wraithsword and Shuriken Cannon

2 War Walkers

5 Reapers with Exarch with Crack Shot

I believe that totals 1811, so that's a weird number to play with. I could put in a second vyper...
 

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better list. personally, i'd go with more Pathfinders, and still drop the single Vyper you have, but TBH, two Vypers with the set up you have may not be as awful as we imagine.

good hunting.
 

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Your plan for where to put the HQ's should be fine. It gives the potential to Guide and Doom for the Avengers while still being able to Doom for the Banshees. Yriel added to that squad will boost up their kill count by a bit, but he should always be on the look out for a good chance to go LOLWTF! bomb a squad (Fortuned if able). Which means you shouldn't spread out too much, which is usually a bad thing to do anyway.

Even though I dislike Vypers, that set up is likely best one for them. The long range offsets their frailty. However, that is still one expensive model that is an easy KP. More Pathfinders may be the answer for you, though at that point your long range anti tank would be a bit low... Perhaps you could toss in some heavier guns in your HS.

If you are giving your Reaper Exarch Crack Shot then consider the Tempest Launcher. At 36" you could severely hurt any MEQ squad. Similarly, I pair up the EML with Fast Shot for a bit of an Anti Tank/ MC option. When I take my Reapers I almost always go with one of these combos.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Here's the final list

HQ
Yriel
Eldrad

3 Warlocks, 1 with Enhance, 1 with Embolden (is it true they can join a separate unit than Eldrad)?

Elites
8 Banshees, Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Counter Attack
Wave Serpent with TL BL

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent with TL BL

Troops
10 Dire Avengers, exarch with bladestorm and two catapults
Wave Serpent with TL BL

10 Guardians with a scatter laser and a warlock with embolden

5 Rangers

Heavy
Wraithlord, 2 Flamers, Brightlance, Wraithblade

2 War Walkers, 2 scatter lasers each

3 Dark Reapers, Exarch with Crack Shot
1850 exactly. :)
 

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I have looked at all of your lists and if I could add a plug nickle I would make the following suggestions.

Drop the 3 Warlocks, I do not think you can add them to other units so it sticks you out in left field as far as attaching Elrad to another unit.

With the points from the warlocks add spirit stones to your wave serpents. This allows them to atleast move every turn which is something you want.

I don't have my codex here so I am not sure on the point exchange for the 3 warlock to 3 spirit stones. If you have the points upgrade your rangers to pathfinders. This is better to pin and save. Then see about adding more reapers.

The list looks nice. If you think about expanding your army look at getting a Fire Prism or two. Good Luck friend
 

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FIRE PRISMS!!!!

As an olderish codex army we, as eldar have to play to our strengths. Against the bloodspacevanillanidorkfrenzy we have to be cleverer. Eldar are the thinkers army, at least thats my excuse and i'm sticking to it! Our strengths are, (imo!) farseers especially eldrad, warlocks especially on jetbikes, and the speed and durability of our tanks and transports.
I love wraithlords, but i find they don't stand up well point for point compared to the fire prism- another strength. Always take two, three is fun but not required, a falcon full of DA's is a better third HS choice.
Now i know two prisms is a big outlay, but they are so....shiny....
With those you almost become- MECH ELDAR!! which is actually very competitive.
I say forget CC with eldar and go the shooty route, doom and guide- say no more.
Peace through superior firepower!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey, sorry it took me a while to get back to people! Thanks for the help, the list is much more competitive right now. Here's what I'm running:

HQ
Yriel
Eldrad

Elites
8 Banshees, Exarch with Executioner
Wave Serpent with TL BL
6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent with TL BL

Fast
Vyper with Scatter Laser

Troops
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch with 2 catapults and bladestorm
Wave Serpent with TL BL

10 Guardians, Scatter Laser platform, Warlock with Embolden

5 Pathfinders

Heavy
Wraithlord with Wraithblade, Missile Launcher and 2 flamers

2 warwalkers with 2 scatter lasers each

3 Dark Reapers Exarch w/ Crack Shot

It went pretty well. I made one major mistake by taking my yriel and banshee crew out of cover and charging a squad of marines, but coming up about 2 inches short because of a bad run roll. They got toasted by flamers (which might have happened anyway in the building)

Next game is tomorrow, I'll post a better report then.
 

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I know your pain, as I too have often struggled with getting my space elves into prominence. But mainly because I try something different every time I play them xp (I COULD just attach a farseer with fortune to 10 Warlocks and wreak havoc on basically everything, but why do the same thing every time? :wink: )

Eldrad is a monster in my opinion. He has a little of everything and can pretty much work anywhere as far as I am concerned. One thing I have liked doing with him is actually attach him to my Dark Reapers. Crazy you say? Perhaps, but figure it this way. Fortune and Guide on my favorite unit, plus doom if the enemy gets to close. And should they sneak an assault unit into my lovely reapers? Well now they wont just be a write off anymore as Edrad knows melee (A fortuned 3+ invulnerable? He wont be dying a whole lot in my experience) But wait, there's more! Since Eldrad can double up on one psyker ability, why not put those lovely pathfinders nearby and fortune them as well when doom is not an option? It is quite hard to kill something when it gets two chances to roll anything but a 1 to stay alive. ;)

Also, speed kills for Eldar....kills the other guy. Dont be afraid to turbo boost that wave serpent full of banshees right past their main attacking stuff and into their heavy but fragile weapons in the rear. As long as you dont put them against anything with a 5 or greater toughness, Banshees are damn annoying in assault, but I'm sure you knew that. BUT, why not have those Dire Avengers tag along in their own Wave Serpent? My philosophy on Avengers is that they are not for attacking, but point capture. Shimmer shield and defend on Avengers means that while they wont be winning any assaults against assault specced units, they will have good chance of bogging them down for a turn or two. And at the end of a game that's all you need to count as being on point right? BUt be warned, outside of cover I have had practically a 0 survival rate for those poor bastards.

10 Guradians + missle launcher + home base = 100 point 10 wound base holder that can pop transports (For your Dark Reapers to then say 'hello' to whatever was inside) I like to have two squads of ten. 200 points for a nice home base that has never failed me.

I like the Avatar. He makes the other guy think twice about approaching my home base when the big guy is giving them all some major melee support as well as fearless for anything near him. The only time I have difficulties with him being affective is when I try and use him for attacking and not defending.

I've never used Yriel, to be honest. Though I do like his potential. remember though, that with independants you can always attach both to the same unit for extra punch. I think thats part of why almost nothing in the Eldar can have more than 10 man squads, and yet the Wave Serpent can hold 12.

Call me crazy, but I like giving my Fire Dragons a heavy flamer. It gives them a touch more diversity, and they dont always get to sit in their vehicle until its time for them to try and pop a tank or termies. Pluss it frees up a few points, and thats always fun. =)

For some reason, 6 is the magic number for my pathfinder squads. More always seems to be overkill, and 5 has had some annoying flubs. Thats more my personal taste than anything tactical, but there you go.

Bright Lances are wonderful. They reduce that Land Raider's armor down to a 12 and thats always nice =) Except...most things arent so annoying as a Land Raider, and most armies I encounter dont have a crapload of stuff with mega armor like that. A brightlance is no more effective against a rhino than a missle is, which gets me to my point here. One, and in some cases 2 bright lances are all you will need below 2,000 points in my experience. Beyond that I have found missle launchers to be just as effective against most targets. But with the added bonus of when you put a missle launcher on a vehicle with another big gun, the plasma missle is S4 and still counts as a defensive weapon. Not to mention a good 20 points cheaper.


Well, thats about all the tidbits of experience I can think up right now. Just remember that with Eldar, you really need to keep control of the situation. Each aspect is great at one thing, and usually blah at everything else. So minimise risk to units by making thier weaknesses as hard to get to as possible and you should find the other players cursing your little Eldar tricks much more often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the tidbits!

I find that the Avatar has been getting hit with way too many Strength 9 lascannon shots lately. He's been dying too quickly, even with fortune on him!

I've been using the Fire Dragons, Avengers and Banshees as a 1, 2, 3 punch. Eldrad casts spells, the fire dragons jump out and pop a tank, the avengers shoot whatever falls out, and the banshees mop up the rest.

Sadly, my opponent didn't show last night. So the two guys that were there were nice enough to play a couple of three man kill team games. I won two of the 3 games we played!
 
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