Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Daemons are my primary detachment in this list. I figured I'm putting out enough big things out there to threaten and scar my opponent into making the wrong choices. Let me know what yall think.

HQ
Bloodthirster w/Greater Reward- 270

CSM Sorc w/ ML 2, Spell familiar, GoM, Sigil of Corruption- 135

Troops

Pink Horrors x10- 90

Bloodletter x10- 100

CSM x9 w/ 8 CCW, Meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess, Power Weapon, Meltabombs- 221

Cultists x10- 50

Fast Attack

Heldrakes x2- 340

Heavy

Soul Grinder x2 w/ Daemon of Nurgle, Baleful Torrent- 340

Land Raider w/ Dirge Caster- 235

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ Comms relay- 70

Total
1851
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Problem I can see just looking over the army is that the CSM of course are your allies, but you have taken 2 Fast Attack in the form of heldrakes from the book. Ally formations can only have 1 HQ, 1-2 Troop, 0-1 Elite, 0-1 Fast, 0-1 Heavy.
I would also scrap the Gift of Mutation as they are normally cack and also increase the horror unit to 11 for that extra WC dice until 1 of them dies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I planned on using the CSM as another combined arms detachment just not the primary one. That should allow me to have the two fast attacks. I wish i had the model for the extra horror haha and i agree about the Gift
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
You can do allies as another full detachment?

Where is the sorceror here? Is he with the cultists behind the ADL or in the land raider? In either case I'd probably give him terminator armour instead of the sigil (same points). I kind of suspect you need to use the allies FOC for a detachment from a different codex, and if so perhaps you could swap the excess helldrake for four termies to go in the land raider with (or without) the sorceror. Or maybe find some points somewhere to take a winged nurgle daemon prince

I'm very curious about whether an allied detachment can use the standard FOC. I feel like I would have heard about that if it were possible
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Some thoughts in my point of view:

you are putting a squishy sorceror and 9 marines into a land raider? that's a suboptimal use for the landy, to say it mildly. :)

Landraider is so costly that you either deliver a hard blow with it or you just spend 500 pts for nothing.

Since the sorc cannot shoot or cast from the landy, why ML2 and familiar? he is probably going to need just one roll on biomancy to buff himself before the melee. the gift of moot is horrid, i second mayegelt.

then, i can't really understand your point on the drakes...you take 2 of them, but as an allied detach you are allowed to one alone. I don't think you can take 2 primary detachments.

So my suggested modifications are
1) drop the second illegal drake
2)since cultists take the mandatory troop slot you swap from slaan marines to
9 Chosen of Slaanesh, Icon of excess, 2 single lightning claws, 2 power axes, 1 power sword champion, meltabombs (285) (i know axes ruin your initiative, but you want to have some AP2 otherwise you will get beaten to death by any terminator out there)
3) the sorc is not going to help you much. i suggest Huron for that odd psy power, good melee capability and infiltrate for himself and slaanesh marines. otherwise a Slaanesh Lord with sigils Powerfist and Lightning Claw can be useful and deadly enough for rougly the same price.
the unit in the landraider is now deadly altough overpriced

My two cents
:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
An allied detachment must use the allied detachment force org chart. However you may have as many combined arms detachments in a battle forged army as you like. Each of those combined arms detachments may take one allied detachment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Yeah, you need to use allied detachments for allies :)
Same goes for space marines (ravenguard) having a unit of space marines (salamanders) for instance.
The only arguing point at the moment seems to be with CSM - CSM CS - CSM BL. The supplements say that CS and BL are allies to CSM, but the new rule book says that they all class as the same 'Faction'.
With this the use of the word 'Faction' seemed to be used in 2 separate context. One to refer to the army (aka Space Wolves, Grey Knights, CSM, Tyranids), but also refers to it in the collective group (Armies of the Imperium).
So some started to argue that you could take a Primary for a Space Wolf army as a Combined Arms as Imperial Guard. This seemed to get quoshed though with the FAQ for Space Marines that said that a space marine chapter would need to take an allied detachment if it wanted to include space marines with different chapter tactics. As this proved that "Armies of the Imperium" need to ally with each other rather than combined arms.

Each of those combined arms detachments may take one allied detachment.
Actually I don't think there is a limit on the amount of allied detachments you can take anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
Some thoughts in my point of view:

you are putting a squishy sorceror and 9 marines into a land raider? that's a suboptimal use for the landy, to say it mildly. :)

Landraider is so costly that you either deliver a hard blow with it or you just spend 500 pts for nothing.

Since the sorc cannot shoot or cast from the landy, why ML2 and familiar? he is probably going to need just one roll on biomancy to buff himself before the melee. the gift of moot is horrid, i second mayegelt.

then, i can't really understand your point on the drakes...you take 2 of them, but as an allied detach you are allowed to one alone. I don't think you can take 2 primary detachments.

So my suggested modifications are
1) drop the second illegal drake
2)since cultists take the mandatory troop slot you swap from slaan marines to
9 Chosen of Slaanesh, Icon of excess, 2 single lightning claws, 2 power axes, 1 power sword champion, meltabombs (285) (i know axes ruin your initiative, but you want to have some AP2 otherwise you will get beaten to death by any terminator out there)
3) the sorc is not going to help you much. i suggest Huron for that odd psy power, good melee capability and infiltrate for himself and slaanesh marines. otherwise a Slaanesh Lord with sigils Powerfist and Lightning Claw can be useful and deadly enough for rougly the same price.
the unit in the landraider is now deadly altough overpriced

My two cents
:)
Without spending more than the 9 chaos marine troops cost you could make them into 5 slaanesh termies, who can have all of the weapons you'd give the chosen but with twin lightning claws instead of single ones. Would you take 9 chosen at 285 over 5 termies for no more than 220?

The sorceror in the LR seems a waste, I agree with that. Behind the aegis with the cultists he could be pretty effective though. With all powers taken from telepathy it's likely he'll get invisibility or shrouded (or both) plus psychic scream. D6+3 dice and a spell familiar is enough to get invis off almost every turn (invisible gliding bloodthirster) and still have one dice to throw at psychic scream
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Without spending more than the 9 chaos marine troops cost you could make them into 5 slaanesh termies, who can have all of the weapons you'd give the chosen but with twin lightning claws instead of single ones. Would you take 9 chosen at 285 over 5 termies for no more than 220?
the only problem is that terminator only dish out 15 attacks on the charge and don't have assault grenades..., while the chosen can reach an astounding 30 or more attacks always striking at initiative 5. Moreover, every powerweapon armed chosen makes an attack more than a terminator.
Also, with 4 ablative wounds, you start losing power weapons attacks from the 5th dead marine. Every dead terminator, instead, is a true nuisance. You are also losing icon of excess, if my calculations on the 220pts are correct. Not so bad a bargain for 60 pts.
About the sorceror, yes, behind the aegis he can be very useful, i agree. i assumed from the odd marines number he would be with them :)
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
A Chosen with a power weapon costs as much as a Termi with a power weapon, and that's about where the argument ends for me, honestly, when you compare the survivability of the two...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
in this precise case, since the two are both inside a landraider, the only survivability that should matter is that of the landraider, for when the unit is in melee, 9 chosen with FnP are going to (usually) last and hit more than 5 terminators, imo.
However, the point issue is to be taken into serious consideration by the poster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
the only problem is that terminator only dish out 15 attacks on the charge and don't have assault grenades..., while the chosen can reach an astounding 30 or more attacks always striking at initiative 5. Moreover, every powerweapon armed chosen makes an attack more than a terminator.
Also, with 4 ablative wounds, you start losing power weapons attacks from the 5th dead marine. Every dead terminator, instead, is a true nuisance. You are also losing icon of excess, if my calculations on the 220pts are correct. Not so bad a bargain for 60 pts.
About the sorceror, yes, behind the aegis he can be very useful, i agree. i assumed from the odd marines number he would be with them :)
The chosen with lightning claws and power axes have the same number of attacks as a terminator because of specialist weapons. The unit leader with the sword gets an extra attack but then you could give termies twin lightning claws for three attacks each. The extra weight of attacks from the other guys in the unit is good, that's going to be useful. I was going to mention terminators can have great utility with combi meltas, chainfists and a heavy flamer, but then I guess you could also give chosen weapons like melta guns, flamers etc and they come with krak grenades. If you were set on taking a land raider I can see that an argument can be made for chosen but I'd still lean towards terminators

For me chosen or terminators in a land raider is just too expensive. The limits of the ally FOC obviously shut down some other options, but without those limits I'd be looking at maybe deepstriking two termie squads instead of the land raider, or perhaps two units of chosen in rhinos. Instead of chosen you could take a CC chaos lord and unit of regular CSM with CC weapons, or even a terminator lord and four terminators. Allied FOC limitations prevent some of these alternatives so it's not really relevant but it's just to highlight how expensive a tooled up unit in a land raider is
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
agreed. whe where discussing the two options of a bad situation :)
if he wants to take a landy, however, (and in an allied detach) there aren't really other options, imo :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm looking at the rule book and I need someone to explain to me why I can't have two combined arms detachments. I have one Daemon combined arms detachment and one CSM combined arms. For allied detachments the rulebook says that it has to be a different faction than the Primary Detachment, no such restriction on the Combined Arms Detachments. I'm probably going to switch out the Sorc for a Warpsmith to help out the landraider and if it gets popped, the soul grinders. The whole chosen/termie debate only applies IF i can't have my two combined arms detachments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
as i read it, because the allied detachment is comprised by 1 HQ, 2 troops, 1 elite 1 fast 1 heavy. but i'm going to reread that part later :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Looks like Kristof is right.

A Primary Detachment has your Warlord and everyone has to be from the same book / supplement.

A CAD doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is NOT REQUIRED to be from the same book / supplement as the primary detachment.

An Allies Detachment doesn't have your warlord and has to be from the same book / supplement. Though is REQUIRED to be from a different book / supplement to the primary detachment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
that's the correct FOC for an allied detachment but what I'm saying is that I'm NOT taking CSM as an allied detachment haha. I'm taking them as a combined arms detachment. My rulebook is an e-book so i can't give you the page number or anything but its under the Choosing Your Army chapter. There should be no reason why I can't take two combined arms detachments of different armies because there is no such restriction on combined arms detachments like there is on an allied detachment. I'm basically fielding two separate and completely independent armies but nominating the Daemon detachment as my primary for Warlord purposes.

EDIT: thanks @mayegelt :grin: i posted close enough to your post that i didn't see it until i posted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Just about beat ya to the post Kristof :)
Basically this was hashed out in another thread and the consensus gained seems to have been the wrong one :). The consensus seemed to be that a CAD had to be of the same faction as the primary detachment, otherwise there was no real point in the allied detachment rules.
Equally with the Space Marine FAQ it says they do have to allied detachment to include legions that don't have the same chapter tactics as they do. This muddied the waters a bit as this implied that a CAD then by proxy must have to be the army as the primary (what it kinda still does). But with no mention of this in the BRB it is void, and just seems to allow a legion to take allied detachments of other space marine chapters that don't have their chapter tactics what is bizarre as they are limited more than everyone else for no reason then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hopefully that bit about the SM's is something that will be clarified with the inevitable BRB FAQ/errata. Until then, I agree. Its an odd reservation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
It might have been done deliberately in attempt to stop people saying
"I will take all my Jump Pack guys as Ravenguard (cos they get better jump packs and HoW),
All my High Strength Heavy Weapon Centurions / Devastators as Imperial Fists (cos they get tank hunter and +1 dmg vs buildings)
All my bikers as Whitescars (cos they get better jink, HoW)
All my Vehicles as Ironhands (cos they get IWND)"
and taking 2X 5man tactical squads and a cheep char to fill the min req for a CAD. Cos if you go for even just 2 out of the 4 of those bonuses (normally Imp Fist and Whitescars ATM) you only need 20 tactical marines for that... oh noes!!!
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top