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Discussion Starter #1
First, the list.....

HQ

Farseer
Doom
Fortune
Spirit Stones
Jetbike
Runes of Warding
-175
Warlock Retinue
10x Warlocks
Jetbikes
1x Enhance
2x Embolden
7x Destructor
4x Singing Spear
-557

ELITES


Fire Dragons
6x Dragons
-96
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Eldar Missile launchers
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-145

TROOPS

Dire Avengers

5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Eldar Missile launcher
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-145

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Eldar Missile launcher
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-145

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent

Twin-Linked Eldar Missile launcher
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-145

HEAVY SUPPORT

Fire Prism

Spirit Stones
-125

Fire Prism
Spirit Stones
-125

kp's: 11

Tactics: Jet council is the death star unit, roving around and engaging anything within reach. True it is pricey, but oh so hard to crack. Dragons pop out and melt a tank (or two if they're lucky), while the Avengers sit in their serpents, using krak missiles when they need to hit a transport and using plasma missiles as defensive weapons when engaging infantry with the shuriken cannons. Fire Prisms are there to be utility, engaging whatever presents the most relevant threat.

Thoughts?
 

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i think the lack of posts should tell you this is good for 1850.

i'd run with it...some players may not like taking such an expensive HQ at this point level (or at all, TBH) but i think you'll do OK.

good hunting.
 

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List looks good! but to me the HQ is far too expensive, it's just about 40 % of your army dude! the unit is overstrong. though it's awesome(!) and will slaughter anything, they could do just the same thing with two less warlocks.
so i'd drop two with destructor and get holo-fields for your prisms.

also if I couted correctly you had about 10 points spare, and changing warlocks for fields will save you some points as well, and you'll end up with about 50 pts left. therefor I'd consider droppig one fire dragon and get a 3 man squad of jetbikes. you will never have too many troops :victory:
 

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List looks good! but to me the HQ is far too expensive, it's just about 40 % of your army dude! the unit is overstrong. though it's awesome (!) and will slaughter anything they could do just the same thing with two less warlocks.
so i'd drop two with destructor and get holo-fields for your prisms.


It's a death star unit. The fact that it eats a lot of points is a known risk.

That being said, the destructor is just as valuable as anything the warlocks can do, holofields don't belong on prisms, and...


Well, singing spears are BAD. Even with wound allocation rearing it's head. You pay 3 points to be worse in CC.

At 1.85k points you can't rely on your council to take down enough tanks. You need more melta.

I'm not a big fan of EMLs. At this points value you want want want brightlances on your Davus, and I'd drop the spirit stones to be able to afford more stuff, but for the FD transports... well, your opponent is already going to shoot the crap out of that. Why upgrade it's gunnery? Lets not give our opponents any free passes out of target priority decision land.

I like the pattern of the Davus, aside form my loadout quible on the WSs, it shows the right thinking.

It sounds silly, but since you're one of the only armies in the game whose psycker will be not mounted up, RuWi are nice, even with emboldenlocks.

I recently tried to shoehorn the same council into 2.5k points and realized that against psyckic defenses (hoods?), the sole seer just huuuuurts. I might consider cutting the doom (because... do 7 heavy flamers and then a bunch of wounds on a 2+ melee weapons need doom?) and grabbing a second fortuneseer would be good backup, and it'd let you fortune a vehicle whenever you weren't facing down anti-psyker defenses. Granted, I just just 'drad, but at 2.5k points I would be embarrassed not to field 'drad.


Oh, and fuck killpoints. Stop keeping track of them, and just play extra carefully when they're what's on the table.
 

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i would definantly add RoW becuase without them if you fail that fortune than you will get punished hard, and i also like cyklowns idea of another fortune seer becasue with that much power doom isnt thaaaaat important but with that many points in a unit fortune is thaaaat important. I do kinda like the spears though becuase it means that your death star unit has a chance to open up a transport with the spears and then assault it same turn which is great because this unit would destroy on the charge and getting charged is never fun.

i tihnk leaving the fire dragons serpent simple in reguards to weaponry would be a good idea becuase if its charging at the enemy with melta inside they are moving to fast to shoot their guns and with all that melta another single s8 shot wont really matter anyway

I would also get rid of the emls for some bls becuase emls arent great at taking down landraiders and that is always a concern

i would also maybe get rid of the underslung cannons and using the points on something else becuase they make it so that you have to be not moving more than 6 in a turn to fire them and with skimmers you always want to be flying all over the place so as to not be caught and if you are caught make it so that they need 6s rather than 4+ to hit you, but thats more a personal thing becuase i just love an army of skimmers moving 12 a turn around an army and annoying the crap out of people because the cant catch you

the holofeilds on fireprisms in a list like this arent really important becuase your opponent will probably shooting all his weapons that could hit the prisms at the council because it will probably be within range and is alot scarrier

even though i wrote alot i didnt really say that many changes and thats because this list is a monster and its only real fear is anti psyker, i have thought about this running a list like this before but i dont have 10 warlocks and 10 bikes just laying around to make it. the list is great have fun pounding face
 

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as others suggested, drop a few warlocks, id also drop 1 wave serpent and the 5 DA's inside and get 3 war walkers with either Scatter lasers or EML's then upgrade the other 2 wave serpents with BL's.

only problem then is you would only have 2 scoring units for objectives.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the advice all. I've taken in your suggestions, and have come up with a revised list.

HQ

Farseer
Fortune
Jetbike
Runes of Warding
Runes of Witnessing
-140
Warlock Retinue
10x Warlocks
Jetbikes
1x Enhance
2x Embolden
7x Destructor
-545

Farseer
Fortune
Jetbike
Runes of Witnessing
-125

ELITES

Fire Dragons
5x Dragons
-80
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones
-110

TROOPS

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Spirit Stones
-145

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Spirit Stones
-145

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Spirit Stones
-145

HEAVY SUPPORT

Fire Prism
-115

Fire Prism
-115

any better? any worse?
 

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WOW warlocks! i like the idea of filling up the dire avenger groups. that is a heck of a seer concil but you dont want it tied up, and they can only kill things so fast
 

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i dont see the reason for your second jetseer.. seems like a waste. also you're wasting a heavy support slot & we got lots of good heavy support that should fill it!

Walkers
3rd fire prism
falcon

Still 10 warlocks seems like too many if they get caught up fighting something pointless then they are going the be wasted points. - lack of a second power for your farseer with then is a bit of a waste aswell. doom would be the best choice.
 

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Well, the other farseer doesn't need to be in the unit. You can just safely stick him inside a wave serpent. If you do that then you can turboboost on any round where the not-riding-a-bike farseer gets his fortune through. If he's in a vehicle then he's a better holder for RuWa as well.

Overall, much, much better. Even if I loath singing spears. Thoughts:

Turn those spirit stones into chincannons. Underslung shuriken cannons increase what the davus can do, and protect against weapon destroyed results. That's an overall boost AND a save against a 1/6 likelyhood even. It's a better deal.
 

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i would be wary of getting rid of the spirit stones because that makes it so that your expensive vehicles with their weak 5 man davu inside are a ton easier to catch and destroy because all it takes is one turn for them to get caught and have their serpents broken open from rear armor hits.

and the problem with the underslung cannons is that they really dont do to much, on average it will wound .42 marines per turn which means with average rolling you will kill no meq, one if youre lucky, and on average it will kill about 1.25 geq per turn if they are not in cover which is one or 2 if youre pretty lucky, and it will kill .62 in cover per turn only alittle better than meq

they are nice if you have the extra points but i wouldnt lose the stones for them because an entire tank isnt worth alittle less than half a marine a turn and if anyone scores any shaken or stunned on you they will be more points wasted that turn and you wont be able to move if its stunned
 

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Er, no, no they aren't. You are looking at a 1/6 chance of a crew stunned result. You are slightly more likely. to have problems.


OH! and lets not forget... you just get a cover save! A cover save that you could replicate by putting something in front of the vehicle!


The personal narrative of "but, maybe I'll need to boost to give myself a cover save and save the vehicle" is a compelling one, but it's just you telling yourself a story. The human brain is very good at valuing narrative reasoning over probability driven reasoning, but it's better to not do it.




The underslung cannons do a TON, dude. They aren't there for marine popping, they're there so that you still have a gun if the BL goes poof, and because it's... still a decent gun. When not moving quickly it combines with the BL, the rest of the time it allows you to decide which is worth shooting. Against AV10 you want the Shuriken cattas, etc. There's enough AV10 targets out there, and you'll spend enough time only moving 6" that the firepower upgrade is quite solid.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
HQ

Farseer
Fortune
Jetbike
Runes of Witnessing
-125
Warlock Retinue
10x Warlocks
Jetbikes
1x Enhance
2x Embolden
7x Destructor
-545

Farseer
Fortune
Runes of Witnessing
Runes of Warding
-110

ELITES

Fire Dragons
5x Dragons
-80
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones
-110

TROOPS

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-155

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-155

Dire Avengers
5x Avengers
-60
Wave Serpent
Twin-Linked Brightlance
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones
-155

HEAVY SUPPORT

Fire Prism
-115

Fire Prism
-115

Why not have both spirit stones and chin cannons? If i just mount the second farseer with one of the Avenger squads and give him the RoWa, i can spare the 30 pts to give the da's stones and keep the seer protected at the same time.

Also, would cutting 2 warlocks for a 3rd prism be worth it?

Thanks for all the input!
 

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that farseer isn't doing much though...... he's got fortune for some reason? to save a transport with a coversave? 110 points is alot for a unit just to get 1 save re-roll a turn. better with doom or guide if you're sticking with the DA's? maybe bulk out the unit he's with? imo he's really sticking out like a sore thumb... cant understand the point vs usefulness with that second seer setup like this

Here's a list im sticking together atm upgrading from a 1500 point list with it.

Farseer 168 Jetbike + Spear + Witnessing + Fortune + Stones + Guide
6xWarlock 308 Jetbike + Spear + Embolden + Enhance

Fire Dragonsx5 80
Wave Serpent 110 TL Cannon + Stones

Dire Avenger 152 x10 + Exarch + Bladestorm + Shuriken Catapult x2
WaveSerpent 135 TLBL
Dire Avenger 152 x10 + Exarch + Bladestorm + Shuriken Catapult x2
WaveSerpent 135 TLBL
Rangers x5 120 Pathfinders

War Walker x3 180 Scatter Laser x6
Fire Prism 115
Fire Prism 115

Total: 1770
Maybe it will give you a slightly different view on things
 
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