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Hai there, everyone. Trying for the best possible Daemon list, with most of the models I like. Statwise, I think the Flesh Hounds of Khorne would be better than seekers, but I'm kind of a Slaanesh fan ;)

Also noting that I should probably max out the Fiend squads, and also get Might on them. Just don't know where to get the points, probably from sacrificing more seekers. Keeping in mind, this is also from the models I have in my possession ;)

Criticism... go!


Code:
Cruor's Daemons1750 Pts  -   Chaos Daemons Army

1 Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot of Tzeentch (HQ) @ 110 Pts
     #Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; We Are Legion; Master of Sorcery;
     Jetbike; Furious Charge

1 Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot of Tzeentch (HQ) @ 110 Pts
     #Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; We Are Legion; Master of Sorcery;
     Jetbike; Furious Charge

1 Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot of Tzeentch (HQ) @ 110 Pts
     #Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; We Are Legion; Master of Sorcery;
     Jetbike; Furious Charge

1 Herald of Tzeentch on Chariot of Tzeentch (HQ) @ 110 Pts
     #Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; We Are Legion; Master of Sorcery;
     Jetbike; Furious Charge

5 Fiends of Slaanesh (Elites) @ 150 Pts
     #Soporific Musk; #Rending Claws

5 Fiends of Slaanesh (Elites) @ 150 Pts
     #Soporific Musk; #Rending Claws

5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (Troops) @ 75 Pts
     Plaguesword

5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (Troops) @ 75 Pts
     Plaguesword

5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (Troops) @ 75 Pts
     Plaguesword

9 Seekers of Slaanesh (Fast Attack) @ 153 Pts
     #Aura of Acquiescence; #Rending Claws

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos (Heavy Support) @ 210 Pts
     Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; Iron Hide; Unholy Might; Mark of Tzeentch

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos (Heavy Support) @ 210 Pts
     Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; Iron Hide; Unholy Might; Mark of Tzeentch

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos (Heavy Support) @ 210 Pts
     Daemonic Gaze; Bolt of Tzeentch; Iron Hide; Unholy Might; Mark of Tzeentch

Models in Army: 41


Total Army Cost: 1748
 

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The heralds and fiends are good. More Fiends and UM would be better like you said if you have the models/points.

I would definitely get more seekers if you can as well, if not probably drop them. I haven't used them much so I can't speak out of experience but I don't think a single group of 9 is going to be very useful. They'd do much better with another group of them or in conjunction with regular Daemonettes I think.

I don't like Unholy Might on your princes. If you drop it from them that's enough to max out your fiends in those two units or enough to add some seekers. You have them geared for ranged combat mainly and unless you're going to give them wings I don't recommend giving them CC upgrades. Another thing to keep in mind that you have 4 heralds, 3 Tzeentch DPs on top of that may be a bit more ranged anti-tank than you need, you could consider going CC with them instead.

Personally I don't like IH on Tzeentch DPs either. 2 reasons mostly:
1. They have a 4+ invuln so the 3+ armor is not worth 30 points a piece imo.
2. Your DPs will probably only be taking fire from high str low ap weapons as it is, since they are the toughest things you have. The weapons that you would actually get that 3+ armor save on will probably be directed at your Fiends, Seekers, and heralds instead so the armor won't really help at all.

There's my two cents.
 

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Angel Sanguine
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2. Your DPs will probably only be taking fire from high str low ap weapons as it is, since they are the toughest things you have. The weapons that you would actually get that 3+ armor save on will probably be directed at your Fiends, Seekers, and heralds instead so the armor won't really help at all.
I think it is because he regularly plays (my) eldar which pack loads of high str shots, and he needs some saves to be albe to stay on the table lol. Still the upgrade costs much...
I would get another group of seekers (squads of 5?), as one is not reliable enough. Maybe drop them for more fiends? :p

Other than that I quite like it, though you know quite well that I don't like your heresy, and you WILL be punished for it, mark my word!
 

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Heres the list i came up with......Cept its for 1850 which is what most rouge trader tournies are around here.

Herald of tzeentch, Mastery of Sorc, We are legion, bolt of tzeentch, Charoit 110
Herald of tzeentch, Mastery of Sorc, We are legion, bolt of tzeentch, Charoit 110
Herald of tzeentch, Mastery of Sorc, We are legion, bolt of tzeentch, Charoit 110
Herald of tzeentch, Mastery of Sorc, We are legion, bolt of tzeentch, Charoit 110

5 Pink Horrors, Bolt, Icon, Changeling 142
7 Pink Horrors bolt 129
7 Pink Horrors bolt 129

6 Blood Crushers, Fury of Khorn 250
6 Blood Crushers, Fury of Khorn 250

Daemon Prince, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Mark of Slaneesh, Pavane of Slaanesh 170
Daemon Prince, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Mark of Slaneesh, Pavane of Slaanesh 170
Daemon Prince, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Mark of Slaneesh, Pavane of Slaanesh 170



Comes out to 1850. This list does well against most other lists. You can deal with mech....you can deal with hordes....and you can deal with MC wound spam(ie nids)
 

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Cant say Im a particular fan of that list- its only got 19 horrors, which is less the I use in 1k games... and often doesnt seem like enough then. When 2/3 games are objective based only having a handful of relatively easily killed troops just seems like a bad plan. I also dont like slaaneshi DPs, since they only really have the pavane going for them, and seeing as how your army doesnt revolve around combat seems a waste. I run either tzeentch or nurgle DPs and both seem very fragile... since the slaaneshi DPs have a worst invulnerable save and a worse T then the tzeentch/nurgle DPs you'll fall really quite easily (especially since there is nothing else for the enemy heavy weapons to fire at
 

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This list is a mix of shooting and close combat......most armies cant deal with the close combat elements in this army. 90% of the lists cant deal with 12 blood crushers.

this list supports its self. The pavane isnt for the DPs its to pull things closer to the blood crushers and the DPs will support that combat.

The charoits are distraction units with 5 wounds a piece and ET. Not to mention they will be poping transports and splitting fire to widdle down 3+ save troops.

This list isnt easy to play, its not like Nids or guard......its not a list that just any person can pick up and win with. You have to understand what your units do and how they support each other. When played properly this list does not make friends and most people bitch and complain about how OPed daemons are.
 

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Sure, dont get me wrong- its a nasty list in an anhiliation game. Lots of decent combat with loads of anti-tank shots on the weaker units that people will ignore. But as soon as you play the other 2 missions you'll really struggle- all the enemy need to is kill 19 horrors and have 1 living rhino driving round the board and they cannot lose. Have 1 troop in that rhino and get it on an objective and they just beat you... even if they lost everything else in their army. Having a solid core of troops is vital for 5th ed mission... while this is much more of a 4th ed 'go out and kill' army.

Switch all the horrors into plaguebearers and you have a decent army for all the missions, although you sacrifice a little anti-tank... otherwise you need to spend a whole lot more points on troops.
 

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FYI Contesting and owning nothing will result in a draw......which then comes down to KPs in most tournies and same and my flgs.

Once again it comes down to knowing your army. If you know it is bad a objective missions then plan for the draw and rack up KPs.
... which is complete bollocks.

BRB P91 Seize Ground/Capture and Control said:
The player controling the most objectives wins. If the players control the same number of objectives , the game is a tactical draw.
A draw is a perfectly acceptable end point for a game, and is used as such in tournaments (hell, most tournaments I've been to or organised split 'winning' up into 2-3 different categories with different points for each level so they certainly dont want to lose 'draw' from the different points schemes).

The only rules in the BRB for a tie-break is the optional addition of victory points during a game, but they wouldnt be used in tournaments to allocate game wins, although they could be used by the organisers to split players on equal points at the end of the competition... but they certainly wouldn't use KP. The only use for KP is in the annihilation mission.
Whatever house rules you want to use with your friends is great... it fits into the golden rule nicely. But dont try to pawn them off onto less experienced gamers as "the rules" because you only come off sounding like a fool.
 

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most lage scale tournaments dont go off victory points because most people dont even know how to add them up....only those who have been playing since third understand them. Fact is every tourny has PRIMARY and SECONDARY and tertiary objectives. If its a tie all teh way through all objectives then yea i suppose its a 100% draw but that usually doesnt happen.

dont get mad at me tim/steve because thats how most tournies are ran....get made at the TOs....

I see your from the UK......i dont think you guys are had over all competative as us americans.....everything is a competation.
 

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Yeah, the competitiveness of people here drives me nuts. It's why I don't have many friends, and don't enjoy tournaments of any kind. But generally in American games, I could see them working in some sort of tie breaker.
 

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Fact is every tourny has PRIMARY and SECONDARY and tertiary objectives. If its a tie all teh way through all objectives then yea i suppose its a 100% draw but that usually doesnt happen.
Keelia have you been to any big tournaments in the US, have you been to them all? If you have then you raise an interesting point about the difference between gaming in the US and UK.
If you havent then you are talking rubbish.
 

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Yea head hunters...then victory points. But like i said most people dont even know what victory points are or how to add them up.

In everything theres always a winner or a loser. There can always be a way to seperate.

Not trying to start anything Tim Steve but after reviewing your 40k lists i dont see you being very competative. I play in AMERICA not the United Kingdom. Its different here, more competative more cut throat. Yes we have fun games but those are reserved for the FLGS. As soon as something gets put on the line we switch over to WIN mode. And yes i have been to numerous large scale events here in the US and YES most events break down game objectives into 3 parts. Primary, secondary and Tertiary. You usually have a composite score.....How nice you were, your sportsmanship, any notable things in your army...does it spam? is it fluffy and so on...this is graded by your opponent. Do i really need to break down tournament scoring? Like seriously?
 

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Saying something like "I dont mean to be offensive but you are a fucktard" isnt going to stop someone taking offense. But I wont bite- I dont care what you think of my lists... or if you think everyone in the UK is a fluffy ponce who never fights to win. I'm assuming you've clicked on the links in my sig... and they are friendly lists for friendly games. I dont use tourny listsoutside of tournies.

Anyway- I've been looking around at various US GT and large scale tourny rule packs and despite the attitude Keelia has a very interesting point to make, but needs to find some humility because he is only partially right.

Looks like the US GT circuit uses tertiary objectives such as the recent Washington DC event, with points being awarded for VP (yes it used victory points, not KP), objectives and board quarters in each round (to a varying degree of importance) and that draws are indeed not possible. Then they use a complicated % system to split the players...

Meanwhile I also checked the 'Ard Boyz rules and they go the exact opposite- there is only primary mission objectives and if it finishes a draw then the game is a draw (splitting victory down into massacre, major and minor) in order to split the field. This is much more in line with UK tournaments, where a draw is a perfectly acceptable endpoint to the game so only 1 mission objective is used.
 

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Man - I would love to take my shitty British game over to the states to kick some arse. thats like an ass with an extra R in it :D

The list is nice and de railed. But back to the list.

What a load of bilge. 12 crushers isnt anything to be scared of. You can see exactly how a good player will take this list to the cleaners. Its not fast enough. The troop choices are poor. The chariots wont be able to stay out of combat (where they just get tied up and die horribly) the princes are not good. Pavane is an ok idea with the crushers but in reality it will rarely work. Kill the princes - win the game. If you faced anything fast your toast. 4 chariots isnt enough fast units. the DP are just 2 TWC models... wow - survive much? and dont give us the old - 'its only good in the hands of a pro' BS. that is wrong. In the hands of a pro vs baby seals yeah maybe, But play vs someone who knows how to play vs demons (ie good players who seek out the new/exotic lists) then your fighting a losing battle. Troops are non existant, I dont know how you think you can face hordes with this. you cant. or our idea of hordes are different. Anyway i look at this list all i can see is losing something important every turn.

Whats your waves like? 6 in each. What goes where? in what wave? 2 identical waves? summit like 2 dp, 1 crushers 1 troop and 2 chariots? vs an entire army? maybe all the chariots and the 2 dps? damn i dont know. Whatever you choose to do with it, its just going to go away. Saying that the USA plays exclusively competitively and then sighting this list as an example of it doesnt say much for you first statement. Let alone that this is an 1850 list! 1500 point armies i have seen at a GW store could beat this! ;-)
 

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Man - I would love to take my shitty British game over to the states to kick some arse. thats like an ass with an extra R in it :D

The list is nice and de railed. But back to the list.

What a load of bilge. 12 crushers isnt anything to be scared of. You can see exactly how a good player will take this list to the cleaners. Its not fast enough. The troop choices are poor. The chariots wont be able to stay out of combat (where they just get tied up and die horribly) the princes are not good. Pavane is an ok idea with the crushers but in reality it will rarely work. Kill the princes - win the game. If you faced anything fast your toast. 4 chariots isnt enough fast units. the DP are just 2 TWC models... wow - survive much? and dont give us the old - 'its only good in the hands of a pro' BS. that is wrong. In the hands of a pro vs baby seals yeah maybe, But play vs someone who knows how to play vs demons (ie good players who seek out the new/exotic lists) then your fighting a losing battle. Troops are non existant, I dont know how you think you can face hordes with this. you cant. or our idea of hordes are different. Anyway i look at this list all i can see is losing something important every turn.

Whats your waves like? 6 in each. What goes where? in what wave? 2 identical waves? summit like 2 dp, 1 crushers 1 troop and 2 chariots? vs an entire army? maybe all the chariots and the 2 dps? damn i dont know. Whatever you choose to do with it, its just going to go away. Saying that the USA plays exclusively competitively and then sighting this list as an example of it doesnt say much for you first statement. Let alone that this is an 1850 list! 1500 point armies i have seen at a GW store could beat this! ;-)



..................What your groups are would be 100% dependant on who your playing and what they are running. If they are running transport heavy then id drop in the prefered group with as many 8/1s as i could to drop his mobility. This list works.......

Ive also seen nid lists that invovles 35+ T6 wounds work and 100% stomp people. Yet ive never seen that list posted here on heresey. Actually 99% of the lists i see posted on Heresey are dumb lists. The one list that was posted that was good was Goatboys 1850 Space wolves list. People bashed it.......Then he went and stomped Adepticon with it and won overall 1850 national chapion tournie with it. But according to people here it was bad because it didnt have all the things that people nut hug here.

OH and guess what that nid lists doesnt have.....Swarmlord.....or a tervigon.....or a Hive tyriant with old advasiary....All the things that people here say YOU HAVE TO HAVE.......yet it stomps people in my local area........OMG get this u silly GW nut hugger.....its stomps GW employees as well.......Just my 2 cents. Just cause you look at something and it doesnt make sense to you doesnt mean it doesnt work.

If i made a list that looks dumb but for some odd reason it works...then shit im gonna run it if it works.

Here ill give you one point of advice...............Check this out
 

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hilarity prevails...

Im all for the anti meta lists. Hell I make a killing with mine. I have played vs American players. The best ones. talked to them about the game over there. This isnt based on some wild game of perception. This list will beat some armies. Some generals. All demon armies do at some point vs certain other builds/players.

The problem I have with*this* build is that its not bringing anything to the table that is at all hidden. it wears its strenghts on a big banner above its head. Its not versatile enough to win any event (contrary to popular belief the uk does play like you do - balls out to win - even without a full set of teeth) I can see what you will try to do with it but unless your playing theory hammer its not going to work.
 

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Biggest problem I find with a lot of lists is they just arent fast enough- I dont like khorne, I dont even own any crushers. Simple reason for both is that they have a <12" threat range... so it doesn't matter how nasty they are, they're too easy to avoid (I have a WE army... I know the benefits of simply ignoring a unit or 2 of the enemies and walking away).

This is why my 'nastiest' army is actually a near mono-slaanesh. Skarbrand as the HQ (converted KoS with a snake-like body/tail and foaming mouth: he's experiencing the rage of the gilted lover :p) who actually feels far more like a KoS then a BT thanks to his fleet and lack of wings, lots of fiends, lots of daemonettes and a unit of seekers (mostly because they look amasing, but it gives me the ability to charge long distances into cover- fiends are more killy, but dont have the grenades).

Just a quick idea of how nasty this army is- the seekers should be lowest on anyone's target priority, but let them charge a unit of 10 marines (and they have a 24" range) and they wipe it out in 1 turn if skarbrand is around to buff them (the marine get buffed too... but I strike at I6) and against the bane of daemons, the fast transport, by daemonettes should get a couple of pens/glances even if it moved flat out (skarbrand normally just sits around in the middle somewhere giving out his rage (if he/she/it is a gilted lover then its lets its mobile do the damage, rather then getting its own hands dirty... though with 7 S9 WS10 attacks on charge it certainly can).

While I freely admit that a crusher army might well be able to beat any one of my units 1 on 1 it just wouldnt happen. Slaaneshi daemons are basically faster then anything else in the game, so I can normally charge more then I deem necessary into any combat I want to fight... or just avoid them entirely (record to date was 5 units into an 800pt nob biker unit- fight lasted 2 combat phases thanks to an ork insane courage roll... they had 3W left).
There are a couple of armies that I would be scared of... but thankfully they dont tend to be the popular tourny builds (its really only massed lasgun/bolter/shiruken fire that I fear... but the sort of levels seen in most armies just dont scare me- espcecially not those from mechdar or razorback lists which would normally be almost auto-wins against daemons).
 
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