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Discussion Starter #1
Hi ladies and gentlemen. Today, I created the list that will eventually become my next project. I have been thinking about it for a long time and this is what I have come up with. I spoke to a tornament organiser in my area, and he said it would recieve a comp score of about a 4, putting me in good stead to do well in tornaments.

[H.Q.]
Librarian [150]
Epistolary

[Troops]
Tactical Squad 1 [210]
10 Marines
Plasma Cannon
Flamer
Power Fist
Combi-Flamer

Razorback [40]

Tactical Squad 2 [205]
10 Marines
Missile Launcher
Flamer
Power Fist
Combi-Flamer

Rhino [35]

Tactical Squad 3 [210]
10 Marines
Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Power Fist
Combi-Melta

Rhino [35]

Tactical Squad 4 [210]
10 Marines
Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Power Fist
Combi-Melta

Rhino [35]

[Elites]

Venerable Dreadnought [175]
Heavy Flamer

Drop Pod [35]

Sternguard Squad [165]
Power Fist
3 Combi-Melta

Drop Pod [35]

[Fast Attack]

Last Speeder Squadron [210]
3 Heavy Flamer
3 Multi Melta



A brief overview of my tactics:

The Dreadnought drops behind enemy lines turn one. Hopefully pops a tank. Attempts to soak up all the anti-tank fire avaliable, or atleast most of it. If by any chance it survives, repeat steps 1-2. Tactical Squad 1 combat squads and Sargeant, Flamer and 3 Marines go inside Razorback with Librarian. The rest sit on my home objective. His psycic hood will be effective, as his unit will be charging forward attempting to shake the opposition off their objective with 2 Flamers and a str 5 ap 3 psycic flamer, then an assault if needs must. Other squads support this assualt with rapid firing/assualting. If oponents list is mechanised I pop one transport then bait the rest of his army with one of my units (most likely the Librarian's). The sternguard drop in to a position where they will become a sacrifice, but will drag down a squad (hopefully) with them. The Land Speeders go big tank hunting (anything with A.V. 13+).

Please correct me where I need to be corrected and provide helpful sugestions.

Thanks.
 

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Damn, thats a lot of tactical marines! I don't run that many, but I see many guys being quite happy about it. I mostly run them with a meltagun, powerfist and missile launcer in a razorback with TL lascannon. But thats kind of expensive;)

I like the idea of how your going to run you dread, I do the same. I just use a ironclad with some hunter-killer missiles. I find that the high AV and those extra shots are very effective, both for shooting and for soaking fire.

And further on to the sternguards. I think sternguards are awesome. Both being able to take cheap combi weapons and use special issue ammo. But I don't see the special ammo being that helpfull with only 5 man, I usally run 8 with 2 combi-meltas and a pf. But thats just what I prefere :)

And last the land speeders. I haven't run landspeeders for awhile but I thought about maybe using, 2 with just multi-meltas to quickly taking out those high AV threats. But I don't know if 3 are worth it or 2 are good enough.

I hope the list will work out for you and you will have a great time :eek:k:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Damn, thats a lot of tactical marines! I don't run that many, but I see many guys being quite happy about it. I mostly run them with a meltagun, powerfist and missile launcer in a razorback with TL lascannon. But thats kind of expensive;)

I find the high ammount of Tactical Marines equates to alot of objective taking/stealing ability. Walk 6", rapid fire, walk 6", rapid. Gotta love it. Combat squadding is fantastic, but then they are too easy to kill of for my liking. I much prefer a solid block to jump out and yell "Boo!". The Land Speeders are designed to take out tanks, so the TL Lascannon is overkill, in my force at least.

I like the idea of how your going to run you dread, I do the same. I just use a ironclad with some hunter-killer missiles. I find that the high AV and those extra shots are very effective, both for shooting and for soaking fire.

Thankyou for an absolutetly fantastic idea! Hunter-killers are fantastic. I cant believe I didn't pick up on this idea before. Thanks.

And further on to the sternguards. I think sternguards are awesome. Both being able to take cheap combi weapons and use special issue ammo. But I don't see the special ammo being that helpfull with only 5 man, I usally run 8 with 2 combi-meltas and a pf. But thats just what I prefere :)

I also love Sterguard, but eveyone knows that a unit of them will rip through 10+ MEQ's in one round of shooting, so they die early. The plan for them is: drop down, kill a tank, soak up fire, die.

And last the land speeders. I haven't run landspeeders for awhile but I thought about maybe using, 2 with just multi-meltas to quickly taking out those high AV threats. But I don't know if 3 are worth it or 2 are good enough.

Good point, but I am a huge fan of them, not just for their ability on the battlefield, but the fun involved in painting them. I love them, so even though 2 might be a better chioce, I much prefer 3.

I hope the list will work out for you and you will have a great time :eek:k:
Thankyou very much for the outstanding feedback. Very helpful.
 

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I think there are some oportunities in your list...

1 ML from combat squad
3 Meltas in speeders
1 Drop Pod Dred that will be effective for one turn (if he goes to turn two, you've either gotten lucky or your opponent sucks)
1 Stern Guard troop dropping (at earliest on T3)

I think that any army with mobility or tank busting capacity will give you real problems... You'll have a hard time closing with them.. They will eith kite you (play you at range) or you'll be footslogging with at least part of your force (and you don't have much to keep it happening over successive turns)

I think you need some long range support. Cause right now you don't have much. Think about AutoLas preds, Rifleman Dreads, Typhoons etc... You just don't have enough punch to be effective in my opinion. At this points level, I would want at least 6 things that can handle threats every turn (3 preds/3 dreads, 3 dreads/3 Typhoons, etc...)

Also, why spend the extra points on the Libby... he's pretty much only there for the hood... so why dump another 50 points into him?
 

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I would look at putting the lib in the Sternguard force. With gate once they are on the ground they can move point to point fast and still fire. It will also help if your strenguard are assaulted.
I would split the speeders up as individuals just incase 2 speeders kill the target the third can shoot something else or flame the group that just jumped out of the transport.
 

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Sorry to break it to you but in the space marine codex your troops are pretty crappy and sub par....and that's ok. In your codex you have a lot of great options in pretty muche very slot but troops, Dreadnoughts are pretty effective, not to mention terminators, land speeders are golden, predators are amazingly cheap and Librarians are great. Tacticals Just aren't survivable enough against any really determined shooting, sure they can stand up to your opponents infantry shots (s4 rapidfire) but most people don't rely on those to kill much they use their more efficient shooty units to either blow the hell out of your tacs or torrent them to death.

The problem with you army is your tacs just don't provide enough threat, your sternguard or dread has to come in close to be effective which means their essentially suicide units. You dread is as well all those melta guns will kill or cripple him even with the reroll. Landspeeders are also not reknowned for their survivability. Once those things go their is very little threat left. 3 ML, 2meltaguns 2 flamers and a plasma cannon isn't enough to do much especially when the rest of your list kills only 3 of your opponents tanks.

It's a common mistake to believe in 5th edition you have to load up on troops to win and some armies can pull it off but you can't, even if you go with minimal 2 tactical squads you'll have 4 scoring units in combat squads. Also you only really need a lot of troops in 1 mission, the other times it's kill points or you just have to hold your home objective.

So my advice would be to back off the tacticals and buy more efficent unit sin other slots.
 

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i prefer running my tact squads with power weapons instead of fists 1) 10 pts cheaper, 2) still strike first(which my not happen with fists since they have I1) - keep 1 squad with the fist though

id also combat squad the tact squads & run them in razorbacks 1) keeps the list at same point value without dealing without problems 2)this also allows you to shoot at his troops while running at them

now this is just me but i wouldnt pay the points for combi-weapons for EVERY sargent - for a combi melta id just pay half price for a melta gun; wouldnt upgrade to a combi flamer; may take a combi plasma & keep the flamer

also drop the ven dred it costs TOO much for what you want it to do take the ironclad (although if you take 2 HK missiles on the basic you only save 10 points off a ven dread) or normal dread - i would take normal dread with TLLC & either the ML or TLAC that only costs 145 pts - which is the cheapest one & provides semi good anti-armor/infantry

all this can free up ~40-110 points pending what changes you make
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thankyou all very much for your advice. Am I right in asuming the general concensis it to drop a Tactical Squad or two and the Venerable and pick up some fire support, along with some more elite units. What do you suggest that I replace the two tactical squads with?

Today I played three games. One against a gunlike Tau list, which I smashed 13-4 (kill points). They had plenty of anti tank, but my list just seemed to work. The Dreadnought popped a Hammerhead, then soaked up two turns of anti-tank fire. The Land Speaders killed another Hammerhead then proceded to kill some suits. And due to the nulified anti-tank, my troops arived in one piece ready to rapid fire the poor buggers left alive. The seccond game was one objective each and I won that 2-0 aswell. It was against a fairly mechanised Eldar list, althought it didn't incorperate any guardians on bikes. The dreadnought, again, performed astoundingly. Killing two troop transports and soaking up three turns of anti-tank. Admitedly, his list wasn't a tornament list but was still powerful. He included the Avatar, which I gunned down in one turn of rapid firing. I then embarked, drove to his objective and shot them off it with no worries. The final game was against an experienced Marine player. It again was kill points, and I managed to win 9-6. He was using the new Blood Angels list. It was a close game, until my Landspeeders destroyed four of his tanks in four turns.

Any thoughts?
 

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Thankyou all very much for your advice. Am I right in asuming the general concensis it to drop a Tactical Squad or two and the Venerable and pick up some fire support, along with some more elite units. What do you suggest that I replace the two tactical squads with?

Today I played three games. One against a gunlike Tau list, which I smashed 13-4 (kill points). They had plenty of anti tank, but my list just seemed to work. The Dreadnought popped a Hammerhead, then soaked up two turns of anti-tank fire. The Land Speaders killed another Hammerhead then proceded to kill some suits. And due to the nulified anti-tank, my troops arived in one piece ready to rapid fire the poor buggers left alive. The seccond game was one objective each and I won that 2-0 aswell. It was against a fairly mechanised Eldar list, althought it didn't incorperate any guardians on bikes. The dreadnought, again, performed astoundingly. Killing two troop transports and soaking up three turns of anti-tank. Admitedly, his list wasn't a tornament list but was still powerful. He included the Avatar, which I gunned down in one turn of rapid firing. I then embarked, drove to his objective and shot them off it with no worries. The final game was against an experienced Marine player. It again was kill points, and I managed to win 9-6. He was using the new Blood Angels list. It was a close game, until my Landspeeders destroyed four of his tanks in four turns.

Any thoughts?
If all the AT the tau had was two hammerheads the list was built improperly, they have some of the best AT in the game. don't really know much about the eldar list from your desciption. The Blood angels player clearly did something wrong if he had 4 tanks and not enough fire support to clear out such a high threat unit as your land speeders. If he's playing meched up then the only real concern is your anti tank units as his FNP/FC bubbles protect him from your tacs rapidfire. Also don't mech angels typically pack crazy amounts of assault cannons that would be really effective against light vehicles such as speeders. what did you do to mess up this dudes target priority so much I'd like a little elaboration.


What you have seems to be working for you, I don't think it's a particularly strong list but a lot more then list goes into winning games and depending on how competitive people in your local area it may suffice. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The Tau player had two broadsides, which were dealt with by my Sternguard and Librarian. Yes, I had a huge amount of luck, but thats just how it goes sometimes. I believe thats all the anti tank this guy had.

The four tanks that the Landspeeders picked up were his four Rhino's. They were left relitively unharmed due to the fact that first turn my Venerable Dreadnought dropped behind his first Baal, destroying it. The other Baal destroyed it in his first turn. My Sternguard then dropped down and Combi-melted the seccond Baal. I left the Landspeeders, on purpose, until both of the Baal's were destroyed, because if I had of ran right up at him, they would have been destroyed easily.

The competitiveness (sp?) of my gaming area is of a mediocre level. There are a large mix, as I go to the largest store in the southern hemisphere.

Thanks.
 
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