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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not my list, but the player who used it says he rarely loses with it. What do ya think?

Lysander - 200 Points

Sternguard (x10) - 335 Points
x8 Combi-Meltas, x2 Heavy Flamers
+ Drop Pod

Scouts (x10) - 155 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Melta Bombs

Scouts (x10) - 155 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Melta Bombs

Scouts (x10) - 155 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Melta Bombs

Scouts (x10) - 150 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher

Scouts (x10) - 150 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher

Devastators (x5) - 150 Points
x4 Missile Launchers

Devastators (x5) - 150 Points
x4 Missile Launchers

Devastators (x5) - 150 Points
x4 Missile Launchers

Total: 1750.
 

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Lysander - 200 Points
Kind of an out there choice, the only model in terminator armour after all; Pedro would actually be more of a benefit to this guys list.

Sternguard (x10) - 335 Points
x8 Combi-Meltas, x2 Heavy Flamers
+ Drop Pod
Expensive and generally one trick, I would seriously suggest swapping some of the combi melta for something else (two or three) and would very much advise against the heavy flamers. Those marines aren't going to be able to benefit from their special ammo, and he's paying points to do that.

Scouts (x10) - 155 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Melta Bombs
I like sniper scouts myself, but they are that much tougher with camo cloaks. If most cover is +4, then to have cover equal to power armour is that much better for them and they become just a little harder to kill. (Saving 67% of the time beats out saving 50% of the time.)

The meltabombs look like a waste on these squads, its not like they are going to be moving and then charging a tank.

Devastators (x5) - 150 Points
x4 Missile Launchers
Absolutely do no like these three squads. Yes they have twelve missile launchers, but between them all each squad has a single ablative wound. After that one marine kicks the bucket (and at 1750 it is a safe bet that they will get shot at and will take losses) then the heavy weapons need to be risked.

I have always gone by a rule of thumb of two bodies per heavy weapons in squads like this. Yes the number of heavy weapons present in smaller squads is not so much, but better to have three missile launchers and three ablative marines than four and one (for example.)

I would suggest having a missile launcher dropped from each squad, and a sixth marine put in its place. Firepower drops a little, and that becomes three more points that room is needed for, but it gives the remaining nine missile launchers more wounds to hide behind and lets them stay firing for that much longer.
 

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Lysander is a cool model, but as Darkreever said, hes kind of a random model waiving his hammer around going look at my fire power. I like the scout squads, but I would get ride of the sterngaurd squad as it kind of looks like a random unit going straight into the fray. That way you could further distribute those numbers to your devastaters squads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What do you think this lists main weaknesses would be? It lacks a lot of AP 4 and 5 so I was thinking it may have trouble with horde armies? The sniper rifles would be decent against power armor if you get enough 6's i think. Objectives might be an issue too?
 

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What do you think this lists main weaknesses would be? It lacks a lot of AP 4 and 5 so I was thinking it may have trouble with horde armies? The sniper rifles would be decent against power armor if you get enough 6's i think. Objectives might be an issue too?
The list may not have to much in the AP 4 or 5 department but it has oodles of high strength AP3 to make up for it, which can also be subbed out for small blast AP5 shots to boot; so it is not that.


The biggest weakness of this list is its speed (well lack of speed actually) and reliance on all that firepower, much of which comes from BS3 scouts. Yeah you have fifty of them shooting, but only half that should hit on average, and only half those sniper rifles should even wound (though a third of those should be rending.) So any force that is able to outmaneuver this army has an advantage. Any army with heavy armour, or high movement rate, or can get in this forces face fast, or can generally assault units in this army; those are the kinds of things this army will struggle against.

Actually, it should also struggle against some other gunline forces, like a guard one due to them having access to heavier weapons than marines. Even chaos with access to defilers with battle cannons, or orks with their battlewagons, nids with massed high toughness beasties, tau and dark eldar long range firepower. These are but a few things that can rather easily out shoot, fight, or maneuver this list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The list may not have to much in the AP 4 or 5 department but it has oodles of high strength AP3 to make up for it, which can also be subbed out for small blast AP5 shots to boot; so it is not that.


The biggest weakness of this list is its speed (well lack of speed actually) and reliance on all that firepower, much of which comes from BS3 scouts. Yeah you have fifty of them shooting, but only half that should hit on average, and only half those sniper rifles should even wound (though a third of those should be rending.) So any force that is able to outmaneuver this army has an advantage. Any army with heavy armour, or high movement rate, or can get in this forces face fast, or can generally assault units in this army; those are the kinds of things this army will struggle against.

Actually, it should also struggle against some other gunline forces, like a guard one due to them having access to heavier weapons than marines. Even chaos with access to defilers with battle cannons, or orks with their battlewagons, nids with massed high toughness beasties, tau and dark eldar long range firepower. These are but a few things that can rather easily out shoot, fight, or maneuver this list.
That does all sound troublesome.

One thing though. I thought frag missiles were ap 6. If that's what you were referring too anyways
 

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Woops, looks like you were right, they are indeed AP6 and not AP5 as I originally thought.

My point does still stand, the missile launchers on high strength have the lower AP which will bypass those pesky armour saves of 4 and 5. The small blast will also give the chance to force enough saves to be thrown that those above saves will generally fail a few. (I mean yeah, 10 AP6 wounds will likely not yield as many kills as 10 AP4 wounds against models with save of 4, but its still not a great save as is.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Woops, looks like you were right, they are indeed AP6 and not AP5 as I originally thought.

My point does still stand, the missile launchers on high strength have the lower AP which will bypass those pesky armour saves of 4 and 5. The small blast will also give the chance to force enough saves to be thrown that those above saves will generally fail a few. (I mean yeah, 10 AP6 wounds will likely not yield as many kills as 10 AP4 wounds against models with save of 4, but its still not a great save as is.)
Yea i agree with ya on that. I was told this list was a good anti-tourney list because it's something people don't expect and it's good against those 'cheesy' lists.

Do you and the rest of the forum-goers agree with that and why or why not?
 

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Its not really all that good against a tourney list i play tourney guard against this list u just try to go second and all reserve or just plain all reserve really wrecks the pods day and u get to shoot soft marines with tank ordanance :p
 

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Personally no, I would not say this list would do well in the tourny scene. It has one unit that will be isolated turn one, a leader that doesn't fit into the list, the five scoring units aren't that tough, and the three heavy weapon squads can be brought down in effectiveness after a single loss each.

Of competitive static lists you might see, they will be able to bring more firepower to the table, generally with or backed up by heavier armour.

Against mech lists that might be fought, they will have armour and speed, making heavy use of cover and working to divide and conquer this list. (If the scouts are infiltrated in, only so many can fit in without being a liability.)

And then against horde lists, well at this point level this force may not have the firepower to deal with that much target saturation


In my experience of lists, from ones designed purely for the sake of fluff, and ones designed to crush an opponent, this list falls more along the lines of something that could be considered a fluff oriented Imperial Fists list, of tenth company aiding Lysander and a squad of first company with elements of one of the reserve companies.
 
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