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Discussion Starter #1
I'm making a list to take to a few upcoming tournaments that is made of pure Deathwing. I know they will never be a top tier army but I love the idea of it. Here is my plan

Belial 190
Sword and Storm Bolter

Terminators 235
3 x Thunder hammer/ Storm Shield. 2 x Lightning Claws

Terminators 235
3 x Thunder hammer/ Storm Shield. 2 x Lightning Claws

Terminators 245
Cyclone Missile Launcher

Terminators 245
Cyclone Missile Launcher

Land Raider Crusader 260
Multimelta

Land Raider Crusader 260
Multimelta

Land Speeder Typhoon 75

1745

With the 5 points left over I could put a chainfist on somebody or similar. For theme reasons I am thinking of dropping the Land speeder and making the Land Raiders into Deathwing vehicles and adding storm bolters and Chain fists to the shooty Terminator squads. Also, swapping Belial for Azrael could be interesting, he would give my LC guys a 4+ invun and I get to pick a better warlord trait than Belial's rather lame one.

Thoughts?
 

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290 points in a tank seems like a lot... but I really can't see anything wrong with it; it'll get your Assault Marines in fairly effectively, I think. I'd ditch the Typhoon if you want your DW to be 'fluffy', removing the Ravenwing aspect. You'd have 20 points left. Chain fists in every squad? No, that won't work in the Assault squads, but you could double up in the others.
 

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You can no longer change your DW sgt's loadout. He's stuck with a stormbolter/power sword now so your all assault DW is invalid. (Stupid FAQ!)

I feel you should always get the DW vehicle upgrade. Your entire strategy is based on using your LRCs to get your assault DW squads into charge range while your other 2 squads DS in and shoot things. One lucky pen hit and if your opponent rolls a immobilize or higher, you're boned mate.

Consider swapping one assault DW squad to Deathwing Kinghts. For the same points cost you get T5 Stormshields that strike at S6 AP4 I4 concussive with smite option. If you come up against Chaos.... S6 AP3 at initiative with PE? Rape.

I think your strategy isn't very solid. Against armies that cant deal with AV13/14 you'll shred them, but come up against tau/DE/Eldar and your LRCs will pop by turn 2 latest. You also have no means of dealing with flyer spam in a tournament environment. 24 TL bolter shots from your LRCs isnt going to do much unless the dice gods favor you.

Almost 600 points in 2 non scoring units (Big guns never tire excluded) is way too high a tax to pay. I think you should go for pure DS army with dreadnought firebase instead of using LRCs.

Just my opinion mate. Cheers!
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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I support what D said about the dreads. Have you thought about dropping the LRCs and Typhoon and adding some RW bikers to guide in the Assualt Termies while the Shooty Termies and the Dreads hold the line?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Page 99 – Deathwing Terminator Squad, Options
Change the second bullet point to:
“• Any model can replace his storm bolter and power fist with:
- a pair of lightning claws .....................................free - a thunder hammer and storm shield .............5 pts

Well that's just shit...

I would add bikers but I'm already breaking theme with typhoon. I had actually considered using knights because they are pretty badass. I just didnt think I could justify loosing a scoring unit with so few models.

I don't have any anti flyer but most flyers don't affect me in massive ways, especially if I'm in a land raider, hell drakes loose a lot of their edge against av14 and 2+ saves.

You are right about my land raiders being able to be popped easily against certain armies which is why I'm considering the expensive upgrade. I'm certain I want land raiders though because every army is packing plasma now.
 

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I would add bikers but I'm already breaking theme with typhoon. I had actually considered using knights because they are pretty badass. I just didnt think I could justify loosing a scoring unit with so few models.

I don't have any anti flyer but most flyers don't affect me in massive ways, especially if I'm in a land raider, hell drakes loose a lot of their edge against av14 and 2+ saves.

You are right about my land raiders being able to be popped easily against certain armies which is why I'm considering the expensive upgrade. I'm certain I want land raiders though because every army is packing plasma now.
Imagine playing against Ravenwing. A Nephilim with lascannons, with the Hunter rule and Strafing Run? Good chance you lose that Raider. I think Necrons with their Scythe spam have something just as messy. You'll need the anti-air somewhere.

Does your local allow FW? Maybe you could look into Contemptors. If you look at most of my recent Dark Angels lists I throw them in... for 200 pts you get x2 Autocannons, a CML, and they can switch to skyfire for a round. Plus they get an Invul save.
 

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The sad bit about PURE Deathwing is that we only have 4 options. Terminators, Knights, Dreads and Landraiders. HQ choice? Belial. No other.

There's only so much list tweaking before all our lists start to look the same.
The most competitive list I can think of is a firebase of contempator mortis dreads (2-3) with a PFG techmarine and the rest of your points in deep striking terminators. No command squad, no knights.

Pure DW probably isn't going to win many tournaments unless you're the next Macharius or the dice gods love you. But who cares? We are the First Legion! We'll still wreck face (especially chaos face, PE is broken). Just have fun! :grin:
 

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I still remember 3rd Edition when DW didn't even have that many options. I feel old.

Ravenwing doesn't have that many options either. Knights, RAS, Speeders, and Fighters. The only difference is they have numerous configurations; plasma, missile launcher, assault cannon, shroud, etc etc.

On the other hand, not counting FW, Deathwing has Dreadnoughts with as many weapon options as the Speeders, as well as three different types of Land raiders...
 

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DW are way more limited then RW when it comes to choice. Truly competitive DW lists so far consist of DW/Knight spam ONLY, or DW/Knights supported by a dreadnought firebase. LR spam doesn't work due to reasons already covered.
As to the 3 types of land raiders, only 1 is actually used. the Godhammer is a weird hybrid of long range and close range assault vehicle, and the Redeemer just doesn't match up to the carrying capacity and mid-close range firepower of the Crusader. Competitively, we only have the LRC as an option.
So DW has 4 unit options, and competitively only 3 options should be taken. And out of the 3, knights can easily be replaced by assault DW squads for utility (CML on a TH/SS).

RW on the other hand, have about the same number of unit options. RAS, RWBK, RWSS, flyers. Like you said, the main difference is in the loadout of the units, as well as the type of list you can build. Competitively, a list built around the dakkapole, elite black knight lists, RAS supported by typhoons/attack bikes, pure RAS spam lists all work. You don't have the same glaring weaknesses a DW list has. (aside from anti air, the neph sucks terribly)

Of course once you add in FW, DW start to win out. Contempator Mortis dreads are insanely good for their price. Not too sure what RW has from FW, but off the top of my head nothing comes to mind.

Most of my comments so far are from a competitive standpoint. I've done some local tournaments in my area with my pure DW army while my mate does pure RW, and the flexibility RW has in list crafting far outstrips the DW. And Sammael is a better HQ then Belial IMO. Oh well. :ireful2:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've taken your advice on board, we do allow FW at our tournies so I've swapped Land Raiders for Contemptors, I haven't given them CMLs because the points saved let me squeeze in a 5th Terminator squad which I have considered swapping for Knights, even though I do like the extra scoring unit:

Belial 190

Mortis Contemptor 180
Kheres Assault Cannons

Mortis Contemptor 180
Kheres Assault Cannons

Terminators 235
3 x THSS, 1 x LC

Terminators 235
3 x THSS, 1 x LC

Terminators 235
Plasma Cannon

Terminators 235
Plasma Cannon

Terminators 245
Cyclone Missile Launcher

Leaves 15 points spare
 

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I'd drop the Kheres down to Autocannons, simply because you get some more range and a little bit higher strength. Yeah, I know, Rending, but even a single point means you have a better chance of glancing most fliers, without needing to depend on lucky 6s. Especially because a ranged platform with 24" weapons means it's in range of other people's 24" weapons.

With the points gained, you could upgrade one of the Terminator squads to Knights, even with a Relic if you wanted.

That leaves you with 105 points... considering you'd be Striking the whole army I'd suggest using every squad mixed with Hammers, claws, fists and bolters... Just so you never lose any to a bad deep strike counter. they can always get a shot or two in. You'd have enough points for a Plasma Cannon and 2 Hammers in every squad if you wanted to play it that way, or even a Cyclone in every squad, but no hammers.
 

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I don't really agree with mixing DWT load outs. It's never worked for me. We're going to deploy in 5 man units where we don't have the numbers to be effective in both roles at once. You deploy with majority melee weapons, you're wasting the vengeful strike and split fire rules we pay for. You deploy as an all shooty unit, no doubt that you're much more vulnerable to plasma then before. But I personally prefer a strong alpha strike to take out the plasma wielding units rather then trading firepower for a hope that some shields will protect my terminators from return fire.

But that's just me! Mixed units I've fielded in my games don't do very well. They can't shoot enough to hurt the enemy significantly, and since the melee armed troops die first, when they get assaulted its all the powerfists left anyway. Just try out both configurations and keep what works for you!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I agree with the not mixing shooty and choppy for the most part but I've made a few more tweaks...

Belial 190

Mortis Contemptor 190
Autocannons, CML

Mortis Contemptor 165
Auto Cannons

Terminators 235
3 Shields, Lightning Claw

Terminators 235
3 Shields, Lightning Claw

Terminators 245
CML

Terminators 245
CML

Deathwing Knights 245
Perfidious Relic

Was going to try and get a command squad in there but the only reason to take them are the banners and they are so very expensive.
 

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Looks solid! But since you have 8 units, you'd have to deploy 4 units on field to satisfy the 50% reserves. Taking out the two dreads, you'll need to throw 2 terminator squads there.
Think about giving one TH/SS terminator squad a CML to hold objectives, and squeeze out the points (can remove the relic, it's done nothing much for me in the games i've played) for another couple of chainfists on the AC squads. Then combine the squads to make a large 10 man squad. So it'll look something like

Belial

2 x mortis contemptor dreads

260 DWT squad with 3 TH/SS and 1 CML

480 10 man DWT, 3 TH/SS, LC, 2 heavy weapons (maybe CML/AC)

245 DWT, 1 CML

235 DWKs.

That's 7 units, and deploying the 2 dreads and TH/SS, CML squad you get to DS the remining 4 squads.
 

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Mortis Contemptors withTLAC & CML are 200. I have this unit ingrained in my brain as a favorite, it's 200pts.

Something else to remember is that a Hammernator CAN take the Cyclone launcher, which means technically you could mix one hammer/shield into a full fire support squad, to give you that one better save and the concussion. Not perfect, but a little bit better off.
 
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