[Yochanan]

I haven't played W40K in over a year and I sold my lot awhile ago. I'm looking to put together a Blood Angels army at 1750 points. I want something straightforward, ie: jump packs and Baal support. Here's my two lists that I've come up with so far (list number 1 has 50 points remaining; perhaps a Librarian and drop a Death Company?) I'm really not sure. I could probably get 50 points in upgrades easy that I've missed. As for list 2, it has 145 points left, and I'm really not sure where I'm going HQ wise. I have to admit I like Dante a lot, but I do want this to be reasonably competitive (perhaps it can with him?).
Thanks in advance!

List 1:
Commander Dante =225
w/Sanguinary Guard (Chapter Banner) =230
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
8 Death Company (Jump Packs, Power Fist) =305
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
---
1700 (50 points left)

List 2:
Librarian (Jump Pack)=125
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
8 Death Company (Jump Packs, Power Fist) =305
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
------
1605 (145 points left)

 

[Kirby]

I'm not a fan of Death Company, particularly with Jump Packs, expensive for what they do and the scarier they get the more likely your opponent will simply lead them around by the nose due to rage. But to each their own .

With list 1 you're not really taking full advantage of Dante. He makes SG Troops and only taking one squad isn't really taking advantage of this. For this reason I like the 2nd list more and would look to add in another Baal or perhaps an HG squad with some upgrades here are there (like hand-flamers on the ASM squads).

 

[OIIIIIIO]

I have to say this ... I played a game last night with a guy that I have not seen in about 4 months. I used Mephiston and he was utterly floored by how versatile he was. He actually quit calling him Mephiston and started calling him Game Genie. I was laughing my ass off. It was all in good fun, but Mephiston is seriously good. I had my doubts at first due to points cost and no IC or EW. Way to side step this? Honor Guard. Give em JP and run a screen for him. So worth it.

 

[HKJGN]

someone suggested on an Online blog that you can fit Mephiston in a Dedicated Transport as long as it has room. Meph also has Fleet and Wings wich basically make him a Motorbike, so i'd keep him behind a Baal predator and use him to strike an important enemy unit, in assault he will tear up a squad and send them running, trick is to keep him near a Priest so he has Fearless and FNP.

I don't know if i would be comfortable without some kind of transport, but that's just me and i'm pretty new. the Baal Predators are nasty, and if you have a regular Predator teamed up with one they can tag team armor and infantry.

i agree that with Dante take more Sanguinary Guard, the golden nipples are really sick and if you can take em as a troop choice you could definately assault some targets. niether seem to have alot of anti tank, and alot of infantry, maybe some Dreads? or replace a Baal with a regular Predator.

Death Company are Expensive but you can make them truely devistating, i prefer to drop them on the enemy, so Rage doesn't really matter if they're near the objective i want to hurt, it's also good to take a DC dread, with Blood Talons they can eat infantry.

these are all tips i got when making my BA army, i have a 2000pt army thats really fast but relies on transports, so yours is probably better off with the Assault Marines, are you planning to Deep Strike them or just run across the field?

 

[Dallas_Drake]

How can Mephiston take a dedicated transport?

Both of your lists are solid, just drop the DC and use those points to get something better.

Dallas

 

[HKJGN]

i was just told on a blog that if a Dedicated Transport has room, it can take Meph, even if he's not attached to the squad. he can't start in the transport however (of course, because he's not the squad that chose it)

but with his movement of like 24 inches, i'd just keep him under cover and strike at necessary units that suck at CC, crush/kill/destroy, general disarray and all that.

 

[Yochanan]

Thanks for the input so far everyone. Taking into consideration a lot of what you've said, I've made a lot of changes. There seems to be a near consensus on DC so I dropped them from both lists and made some other changes (including Mephiston in the second).
Tell me what you think.

List 1: (Dropped Death Company and added another Sanguinary Guard and Baal Predator)

Commander Dante =225
w/5 Sanguinary Guard (Chapter Banner) =230
5 Sanguinary Guard =200
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
---
1740 (10 points left)

List 2: (Dropped Librarian and Death Company and added Mephiston, Honor Guard and another Baal Predator)

Mephiston =250
Honor Guard (Jump Packs)=165
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
Sanguinary Priest (Power Weapon, Jump Pack) =90
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
Baal Predator (Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters) =145pts
------
1735 (15 points left)

Concerns:

List 1:
I'm having a hard time seeing when its efficient to run anything with jump packs other than plain ole' Assault Squads, with the exception of Sanguinary Guard with Dante. Is list 1 better now that I have 2 squads of Sanguinary Guard or to make Dante really effective are you suggesting that I run only Sanguinary Guard as my troop choices? I could run 5 squads of 5? seems like I won't have a lot of models though.

List 2:
Are Honor Guard going to eat shooting like Assault Squads? despite their higher cost. I'm temped to drop the 3rd pred and Honor Guard for Veterans or another Assault Squad (run 4 assault squads, 2 priests, and have Mephiston run behind and gain FNP). Better idea?, if not, what should I replace honor guard with?

 

[Kirby]

With Dante & Sang Guard I think the best bet is a full Jumper list (i.e. no Baals). Something like Dante, Libby, 3x5 SG w/upgrades, couple of Priests, 2 VV squads and Honor Guard but I think you're going for a Hybrid list with tanks so I'd lean away from Dante/SG.

I think your 2nd list is solid but maybe drop the PWeapons off the Priests and add some meltaguns to the Honor Guard. The HG will be shot but it keeps your ASM alive and gives you another FNP bubble whilst Mephiston can hide behind Baals until he can come out and wreck face. I wouldn't go for 4 squads as you're diluting your firepower too much.

 

[Yochanan]

@Kirby: To tell you the truth, I've never been ultra fond of tanks. My reason for running jump packs is so I won't need transports. I would be completely fine with running a list without tanks if it can pack a punch competitivly. Do you feel a full jumper list without Baals is also effective? also, I take it Sang Guard are only viable with Dante as an HQ since they become troops?

So your full jumper list might be a potential for me. How come no assault marines in it though?

Is it a waste of points for the Pweapons on priests because they'll just get picked out? are they basically only useful for the bubble? so you run them naked (well, with packs only of course).

 

[Yochanan]

Here's a full jumper list that I've made out of list #1. I dropped the 3 Baal Predators and 2 Priests. I'm currently over 1750 by 30 points and might be short on some equipment.

Commander Dante =225
Librarian (Jump pack, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage)=125
5 Honor Guard (jump packs)=165
5 Honor Guard (jump packs)=165
5 Sanguinary Guard (Chapter Banner)=230 *Dante goes here
5 Sanguinary Guard =200
5 Sanguinary Guard =200
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs, +2 Melta, Power Fist) =235

In a full jumper list are Honor Guard better than running a couple priests in Assault Squads, or in this case, Sanguinary Guard too? I know Honor Guard are not scoring units but I have enough between the Sang Guard and Assault Squads. I really have to admit that I like how the priest can't be picked out of the honor guard unit. And compared to Assault Squad and a Sanguinary Priest, the Honor Guard points cost seems pretty comparible.

 

[cybernomad]

I would drop 1 sang guard and replace with a Vanguard Vet squad, they are a nice addition to an all jump list with their Heroic Intervention ability. Keeps units tied up when the rest of your guys jump in.

 

[Rybnik]

Personally when I play all jump packs I like to include Dante as he is just a whole lot of fun to play with and he has some really neat rules. I've found that I like him more in a 10 man ASM squad rather than with the smaller HG or SG. Thanks to Kirby and his amazingly helpful blog (shameless plug I know), I've found the wonders of Dev's mixed in with my jumpers (I believe Chumb coined it Blood Hammer). I prefer Dev's to VV because even with DoA special rule I seemed to always roll the VV in at the wrong time in every game I took them in. Having the Dev's on the table in cover from the get go realy adds something to the all jumpers list I think. Having 2; 10 man combat squadded Dev squads in cover gives you nice heavy support in 4 sets of 2 str 8 shots. 5 man squads are easy to get cover for usually and can really saturate firing lanes, yielding side/rear shots if your enemy isn't careful. For 1750 I'd run something like this:

Dante - 225
Libby - JP, Lance/Shield - 125

Sang Guard - Chapter Banner, 2x Infernus, PF - 260
Sanguinary Priest (2) - JP, PW - 180
Sanguinary Priest - 50

10 man ASM (2) - 2x Melta, PF, Hand Flamer - 490

10 man Dev Squad (2) - 4x ML - 420

1750 points exactly.

I'd run Dante, Priest(JP, PW), and ASM together deepstriking for pinpoint Dante application, Libby, Priest (JP, PW), and ASM would deploy on the table, Sang Guard would deploy on the table as well (either could deepstrike depending on situation). Dev's all compbat squad and deploy in cover single priest stcisk with one squad (hopefully within 6" of another squad so each gets FnP).

This gives you the Dante bomb in reserve, 8 str8 ap3 missiles that can shoot at 4 different targets (don't forget the dev srg's signum to up balistic skill by 1!) to shake/stun heavy targets and pop transports, and more importantly let your jumpers cross the board a little safer. Sang Guard will annihilate pretty much any troop choices save perhaps large blobs of boyz with hidden klaws, and with the melta pistols/lance they and the ASM have a good chance of popping armor. I tend to run ASM as tank poppers and SG as counter chargers to whatever assaults the ASM.

It's a fun style to play with but pretty dependant on deploying well and playing smart.

 

[Dallas_Drake]

i was just told on a blog that if a Dedicated Transport has room, it can take Meph, even if he's not attached to the squad. he can't start in the transport however (of course, because he's not the squad that chose it)

but with his movement of like 24 inches, i'd just keep him under cover and strike at necessary units that suck at CC, crush/kill/destroy, general disarray and all that.

Nah, a Rhino for example can't load up with two separate units (say two separate 5 man assault squads) even if there is space, so there is no way Meph can do that, the only way he could was if he was an IC attached to that unit (like Sang Priests or Captains) so since he's not an IC he's not able to do that. It's no issue, just run him up the middle 12'' with his powers & run D6''. Should get him into hth by turn 3, if he still lives.

The only thing that can take 2 units is the Storm Raven & one of them has to be a Dread.

Actually, he can't take any transport since he has no entitlement to Dedicated Transports and Land Raiders (which would before this codex normally be Heavy Support) are now Dedicated Transports for BA; kinda makes you think if they did it so nobody took Mephiston in a Heavy Support Land Raider... :scratchhead:

As for the list...

I agree with cybernomad; in fact I'd say that VV are crucial to jump pack lists since they have the ability to use DOA & HI together, do not underestimate the importance of this unit. Say you pop a transport and out pops their 'elite' unit, we'll say Khorne Berzerkers for arguments sake, now they are fearless with FC, so you want to get the charge on them, but your Honour Guard/Sang Guard/Assault Squads have just DOA down & can't charge the turn they land right?... that's where VV come in, they HI in & charge that unit, deny FC & save one of your units from a nasty charge, they'll likely take casualties and come of worse against most nasty hammer/killy elites (which is why Storm Shields are worth it on them in a big way) but that's ok, you've tar-pitted that unit, hopefully dented them too, and next turn they'll get the good news from Dante/Sanguinary Guard et al. Plus, if you play against annoying opponents like me, people who take 2 units of Long Fangs with missile launchers or loads of other static shooty stuff you can just drop them in against them, silence their firepower & move on. They really do work in jump pack armies, about the only army I'd take them in.

In your list above, those 2 x 10 man Devs need to be 2 or 3 x 5 man VV with a few Infernus pistols & a few Storm Shields, a few power weapons if you have points are nice too.

Dallas

 

[Yochanan]

I agree with cybernomad; in fact I'd say that VV are crucial to jump pack lists since they have the ability to use DOA & HI together, do not underestimate the importance of this unit. Say you pop a transport and out pops their 'elite' unit, we'll say Khorne Berzerkers for arguments sake, now they are fearless with FC, so you want to get the charge on them, but your Honour Guard/Sang Guard/Assault Squads have just DOA down & can't charge the turn they land right?... that's where VV come in, they HI in & charge that unit, deny FC & save one of your units from a nasty charge, they'll likely take casualties and come of worse against most nasty hammer/killy elites (which is why Storm Shields are worth it on them in a big way) but that's ok, you've tar-pitted that unit, hopefully dented them too, and next turn they'll get the good news from Dante/Sanguinary Guard et al. Plus, if you play against annoying opponents like me, people who take 2 units of Long Fangs with missile launchers or loads of other static shooty stuff you can just drop them in against them, silence their firepower & move on. They really do work in jump pack armies, about the only army I'd take them in.
Dallas

With more research and all of your help I've decided to run VV. Being new to the army I am worried that I won't use them effectivly however. But, it takes time. I agree with Dallas on the VV's over the Dev's. Dev's just aren't what I'm going for, but you make some good points and it looks like a fairly effective list. In the future I'll definately proxy in some Dev's and give them a go.

 

[Yochanan]

Dante - 225
Libby - JP, Lance/Shield - 125

Sang Guard - Chapter Banner, 2x Infernus, PF - 260
Sanguinary Priest (2) - JP, PW - 180
Sanguinary Priest - 50

10 man ASM (2) - 2x Melta, PF, Hand Flamer - 490

10 man Dev Squad (2) - 4x ML - 420

1750 points exactly.

Why are so many BA lists running Priests and not running Honor Guard where they can't get picked out? They seem to crucial to the list to be so vulnerable. I could understand if you were already low on scoring troops, but other than that...I'm just not seeing the benifits. Enlighten me someone

 

[Dallas_Drake]

Why are so many BA lists running Priests and not running Honor Guard where they can't get picked out? They seem to crucial to the list to be so vulnerable. I could understand if you were already low on scoring troops, but other than that...I'm just not seeing the benifits. Enlighten me someone

I don't know really, I think it prob just comes down to the fact that 5 man HG tend to run into the cost of 10 man assault squad, bodies over toys, but in all honesty both work well. If you go the SP route then take 2-3 & it tends to do the job & for such few points who wouldn't want FC/FNP bubbles throughout their army? Plus there are some obvious ways to keep your Priests alive longer :wink:

Good luck!

Dallas

 

[Yochanan]

Okay everyone who replied, I took some of your suggestions into consideration. I took Cybernomad's advice to drop one Sanguinary Guard and grab a VV squad, except I dropped 2! and Dallas' advice on the storm shields. So here's my Dante and Libby jump pack lists. I REALLY think the second is pretty solid so far, whereas the first needs help still and may just be ditched.

Dante and Sanguinary Guard List:

Commander Dante =225
Libarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sang=125
Sanguinary Guard w/Chapter Banner=230
Honor Guard w/Jump Pack, 2x meltagun =185
Honor Guard w/Jump Pack, 2x meltagun =185
Sang Priest x1 w/Jump Pack=75
AS x10 w/2x meltagun, Power Fist=235
AS x10 w/2x meltagun, Power Fist=235
VV x5 w/Jump Packs, Pfist, Storm Shields=275
---
1770 (over by 20 points and my Sanguinary Guard are pretty much naked :S). Dante and Sang guard sure cost a lot!

Double Libby List:

Libarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sang=125
Libarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sang=125
Honor Guard w/Jump Pack, 2x meltagun =185
Honor Guard w/Jump Pack, 2x meltagun =185
Sang Priest x1 w/Jump Pack=75
Sang Priest x1 w/Jump Pack=75
AS x10 w/2x meltagun, Power Fist=235
AS x10 w/2x meltagun, Power Fist=235
AS x10 w/2x meltagun, Power Fist=235
VV x5 w/Jump Packs, Pfist, Storm Shields=275
----
1750

Essentially the difference between the lists are swapping Dante and Sanguinary Guard for a Libby, Priest and Assault Squad.

 

[Dallas_Drake]

For fun use the Dante list, for competitive/serious play use the dual Librarian list. Nice lists.

Dallas

 

[Yochanan]

For fun use the Dante list, for competitive/serious play use the dual Librarian list. Nice lists.

Dallas

Thanks!

That's totally what I was thinking. It's an easy model swap to play between them too, so I don't need to invest in too many models to start out with, and have some decent options. I'm going to pick up a Mephiston and try him out too.

 

[Kirby]

@Rybnik; <3 for the plug but I thought of the name Blood Hammer! lol. Kudos to shep though for the idea

I'm just sending a reply to you now Yochanan but will just sum up my thoughts here:

2nd list is the better one but too many FNP/FC bubbles. HG are great in that you can't pick out the Priest in combat but are a huge target to ranged firepower having multiple specials, small squad sizes and a FNP/FC bubble + 4 bubbles @ 1750 is a tad bit of overkill. Also, only one squad of VV doesn't give you much redundency so I'd drop a HG squad in favor of another VV squad. With playing of points you should be able to get 3SS on each squad though one of the ASM squads will likely drop to 5 guys (which is fine @ 1750). Whilst your list is still good this just optimises it. Once you hit 2k the 2nd HG squad is fine IMO.