[ntaw]

I'm still not sure if I'm going to go, but the group I'm involved with is doing a tournament at the end of the month. I've been workshopping a few ideas, but really don't know how much I want to play in a strictly competitive setting...I feel like BA are fighting a real uphill battle against armies like Tau, Eldar, and other spammy lists out there. Maybe it's because I don't want to spam units right back at people, I don't know. Either way, here's a new list that is now possible 'cuz I got some new shiny for my birthday from my girlfriend :grin: I'd love to hear any comments and criticisms, I've never played in a full-on competitive environment before.

Baal Strike Force Detachment

HQ

Priest - Jump Pack, Lightning Claw

Elites

5x Sanguinary Guard - Power Fist, Chapter Banner (3x Swords, 1x Axe)

10x Death Company - Jump Packs, 2x Power Fists (BP/CCW otherwise)

Furioso - Heavy Flamer, Frag Cannon, Drop Pod

Furioso - Heavy Flamer, Frag Cannon, Drop Pod

Troops

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Rhino

Fast Attack

5x man Assault squad - 2x Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

Heavy Support

Predator - Overcharged Engines, Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons

Stormraven - Twin-linked Lascannon and Multi-Melta

1750 points bang on. Rhinos move to support the Furioso attack or grab objectives, Predator stays back or follows slowly picking off transports/using OCE to get on some side armour. Priest goes with SG, them and the DC basically run at whatever looks juicy at the onset. Don't think I'll be DSing them at all even if I get Descent of Angels twice over as a Warlord Trait, I like them on the table T1 ready to react/grab objectives. The Assault squad is basically a use once and destroy unit, hopefully all of my opponents have something with an AV that's worth three Melta shots when they come in. Stormraven is primarily there for anti air, but can obviously deal with ground targets well. Contemplating swapping the TLLC for the TLAC, but I'm not entirely sold on that move. There's been lots of times I've needed the extra high strength attacks for enemy Fliers/FMCs.

Thanks for having a look! :drinks:

 

[IntereoVivo]

Looks fairly solid to me. You may find that you struggle against heavy gun line armies, but you should be able to come pretty close to matching Eldar speed, and the drop pods will help distract Tau. Just watch out for melta.

Isn't there a formation that allows you to Assault the turn you deep strike? I don't remember what book it's in, but I'm pretty sure it's usable in 40k. It eats Tau/Eldar, especially if you get first turn.

 

[R_Squared]

I take you're expecting to face vehicle heavy opponents?
That looks great at taking out high points vehicles and walkers, but against any infantry, you may struggle. How would you deal with a Green Tide for example?

 

[ntaw]

Thanks for the comments guys! Right off the top, as I was posting this list and reading it off my Battlescribe app on my phone I didn't realize I had added Extra Armour to both of those Rhinos as well. Not sure why...to be honest I would be playing those 20 points as Heavy Flamers in the Tactical squads if I had the models/parts and time to convert them up.

Isn't there a formation that allows you to Assault the turn you deep strike?

If there is, and it doesn't come with preposterous unit requirements, I would be exceptionally interested in that. Haven't heard anything of the sort though.

You may find that you struggle against heavy gun line armies, but you should be able to come pretty close to matching Eldar speed, and the drop pods will help distract Tau. Just watch out for melta.

I find no matter what I do BA struggle against gun line armies. Being a Guard player as well (and having faced the army I own for years before buying it off a friend during a move) I'm familiar with some tactics against such armies, but pretty much rely on speed to get in as close as possible and pretty much hope for the best. Melta's a bitch, I've lost many a Furioso to it. I'm a big fan of getting the Pod on/blocking an Objective so there's at least some hesitation in target priority when playing with Tactical Objectives. I have yet to see an Eldar player in the group, but I'm sure when I finally face them down I'm sure I'll be struggling a bit...I have zero experience facing them

but against any infantry, you may struggle. How would you deal with a Green Tide for example?

Well, yes, you're right. Those Furiosos though...they pray to the god-emperor there's juicy infantry targets like that not in transports for when they show up. Between the two of them, that's 2x S5 AP4 and 4x S6 AP- Rending templates mounted on AV13 Walkers that -love- being in combat with large groups of infantry that only have a model or two that can do real damage to it. Then there's the 40+ attacks from the DC on the charge, who will in all likelihood be working in tandem with the SG/Priest. I wouldn't say this list is devoid of the ability to thin out the herd, but I very much see your point.

Given my points discrepancy I could swap the auto-las Predator for a Baal Predator, run a 4x Missile Launcher Devastator squad, work Hurricane Bolter sponsons and a TLAC onto the Stormraven...I have some options here. The core of the list that I want to take is this:

Priest - Jump Pack, Lightning Claw

5x Sanguinary Guard - Power Fist, Chapter Banner (3x Swords, 1x Axe)

10x Death Company - Jump Packs, 2x Power Fists (BP/CCW otherwise)

Furioso - Heavy Flamer, Frag Cannon, Drop Pod

Furioso - Heavy Flamer, Frag Cannon, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Rhino

5x man Assault squad - 2x Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

Which comes out at 1,405 points, leaving me with 345 to play with. I have the ability to add in:

another 10 man Tactical squad in a Rhino (Rhino could be a second Predator, marines can fill Devastator squads)
5 man Scout squad w. Cloaks/ML option
Baal Predator (TLAC top turret, all options for normal Predator as well)
Stormraven (two, really, but only one will fit)
Land Raider (all three variants just in case we want to get crazy)
Devastator squad (4x ML, 3x LC)
Pretty much any non-unique HQ and all unique guys that came out in metal (no Astorath or Sanguinor)
10 man Assault squad w. packs, melta or flamer options
...plus all Rhinos can be Razorbacks.

What do you think would be the best addition? Oh, I suppose I could also add in a Vindicare or Callidus Assassin but I'm not sure I want to go down the allies road in any other way really.

 

[IntereoVivo]

It's called Angel's Fury Spearhead Strike Force. It's out of White Dwarf 47.

From what I remember, you have to take three Tac squads in Storm Ravens that DS turn 1. Anything that DS within 12" of them doesn't scatter and can charge.

 

[ntaw]

Good to know @IntereoVivo! More stuff to add to the arsenal...but after buying and putting together two Stormravens (only one is painted, not to mention all the magnets :shok I'm loathe to cough up enough for a third. If I can ever get my hands on numer-o three I will for sure be using that Detachment somewhere....even though it takes up a minimum of 1020 points to accomplish before getting into upgrades. I see it as a great fluff addition to the game, but there's no guarantee they're coming in T1 so you need to put something that will stay on the table a full turn potentially alone, or you need to add in Drop Pods which totally defeats the purpose of this Formation.

Oh snap. Crucial wording that I just noticed typing this out:

If a friendly unit with the BA Faction arrives from DS Reserve within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with Teleport Homers, then it does not scatter and can charge on the same turn it arrives.

Which puts base cost for this squad at 1050 and means that you have to keep those Stormravens together and in the thick of things: Tactical squads can't take Teleport Homers. As awesome as the cookie of charging when you arrive from DS is, that seems like a ton of work to make it happen within a list under 2k

 

[IntereoVivo]

True story. Though I'm pretty sure the Tac squads get TH for free. Don't quote me on that though.

Isn't there a special rule that let's them come in turn one automatically?

 

[ntaw]

This is what I'm referencing:

You get to roll T1 with the ability to re-roll which is really good, but not 100% reliable. Tac sergeants do indeed get them for free within the Formation, though when I first saw the picture it was nowhere near as large as it is in this post.

I'm a fool and was looking in the Tac entry for access to Special Issue Wargear for the Sergeants and glossed over (after seeing that it wasn't a selection) that they can simply take THs despite not having access to the SIW list. Swing and a miss for reading top to bottom for me, though to be honest I never use THs at all. Servo-Skulls from an allied in Inquisitor (more often with GK/DW/DPs) or Descent of Angels is usually the route I go for DS manipulation without getting too hectic with Allies.

While it isn't as restrictive as I thought for the DS bubble(s), it's still a lot of points to work around that doesn't include an HQ/Troops that form the minimum requirements for your Primary Detachment (barring the use of more supplementary Detachments/Formations). Still feels a bit clunky to me in games under 2k, though as stated if I ever came into being able to use a third SR for a game I'd love to give it a knock.

 

[ntaw]

So this list got some table time today against a guy playing SM Ultramarine Tactics. I played the 4x ML Devs instead of the Predator and the other guy's list was:

Tigurius

ML2 Libby

3x Centurions - Grav/ML, Drop Pod

3x Centurions - Grav/ML, Drop Pod

5x man Tactical squad - Melta, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

5x man Tactical squad - Melta, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod

5x man Assault squad - 2x Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Drop Pod

Stormraven - Lascannons, Missile Launcher, Bolter sponsons

Stormtalon - Assault Cannons, Skyhammer ML

Sanguinary Priest - Valour's Edge

5x Scout squad - Pistols/CCWs

Fucker went Invisible and stayed Invisible with both Centurion squads all game (I say that kindheartedly, it was a great game and he was a good player). My DC tied up and eventually killed one of them, while my SG and Priest folded entirely to the shooting of the other one. I ate all his tiny units and most of his Drop Pods, both Stormravens were alive at the end of the game. Finished at 9-7 for him playing Crusade with four Objectives. If we'd have finished on T5 I would have won 7-6 but he took the contested point in the last turn. My dice luck for cover saves had completely run out, all I had to do was make one of two 5+ saves at the end of T6 to keep my win. It was a really close match, but him getting First Blood AND Warlord in T1 with his damn Centurions was ultimately the crusher.

A hilarious highlight of the game for me was during T2. After flaming the sergeant and one ML from the Devs off with his Assault squad I got a little bloodthirsty and used my Pistols instead of MLs on the squad so I could charge. Beat them to a pulp. I -love- the +1 Initiative bonus from the BSFD combined with Furious Charge. I've been dealing pretty good against armies with ObSec, it has only cost me one game out of several dozen at this point across all my lists.

 

[Mossy Toes]

I do love a close game more than a blowout. Winning would be the icing on the cake, but... still, better a close game.

 

[ntaw]

I wholeheartedly agree, Mossy. When he rolled Invisibility for both his Psykers we both just kinda looked at each other and went 'here we go!'. My dual Furioso dreads have been stars in every game they see the table in. If I can get them into combat they just end stuff, and if I focus shooting the two of them on one target the turn they arrive 6 templates can cause quite the ruckus.

 

[IntereoVivo]

Sounds like a great game Which (IMO) makes the list a success.

 

[ntaw]

The list was indeed a great success! If I had have faced someone who had anything on the table T1 (I lost the roll off and went second) it might have been a very different outcome.

Just remembered I played a Deathwind ML on the Pod with the Assault squad inside. It proved very useful since they were stuck in right close. Just out of curiosity, any suggestions on how to expand it to 2k? I went in gaming today with two lists, swapping the Stormraven for a ten man Assault squad with two Flamers and dual Hand Flamers on the sergeant in case I faced someone who had no answer to Fliers in their model collection. I'd be pretty happy to add those Assault marines in and maybe bump the MLs in the Devastator squad up to having Flakk because I don't have the Heavy Flamers I long to equip my Tactical squads with. Lots of different ways to make up 250 points though!

 

[JAMOB]

I think it would be interesting to run the angel's fury detachment along with that elites detachment - I forget what it's called - for DS assaulting goodness all around.

(to go back a few posts)

 

[christopher.dean]

Hey man. I found a creative way to make my own heavy flamers instead of trying to buy new boxes of models. I bought some very inexpensive Imperial Guard heavy flamers from ebay bits suppliers. I sliced the dual fuel tank back packs in two and glued one where the hoses came out of the weapon. So it's carried like a SM flamer, but bigger with a badass fuel tank. I modeled up about four of these on some marines I whipped up out of my bits box.

 

[ntaw]

@JAMOB, are you thinking of the 1st Company Detachment for the (up to) 2 HQ and 16 Elites? If so, I unfortunately don't have all the prerequisite model selections to do with any sort of style. If not, please enlighten me! I need me some fun new BA stuff. I just realized that I can actually play the Battle Company Formation out of the Codex...kinda bonkers. I'd have to also play a BSFD but it would be pretty much my entire collection sitting around 4k (of BA, anyway) in a battle-forged list.

@christopher.dean I like your style, got any pics of the work? I feel as though it is relevant to this thread since I would love to take HFs in my Tac squads. Granted, if I was going to shell out the coin to get Guard bits and convert I'd likely just get the Flamer stuff, but sometimes I get inspiration from the darnedest places. I have tons of flame-type weapons in my bits collection (at this point that seems an apt name for it :grin that I might be able to mock something up out of.

 

[christopher.dean]

I'll see if I can't get a decent pic up. The reason I went with it was that the SM ones are like 8 bucks vs the IG ones for around a dollar each. If I can't brag about saving money when I buy models my beautiful bride to be turns into the hulk.

 

[christopher.dean]

not the greatest pic, but you can at least see the jist of what I did. Sorry no paint yet. With two book cases of models I get slack. I've thought about only painting models after they perform well in a friendly game and "earn" their colors.

So to keep it tactics oriented, how do you normally use tacticals in BA? It's not something I've done yet since back in 5th there was no point and I love the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force where I get all those FA options and generally just bring a small group of scouts as FOC filler. It just seems wrong bringing Dante in a Flesh Tearer list. That and I'd like to try out that old school furious charge sometime.

 

[Starbuck]

Any good ideas on converting combimeltas? That or alternative load out for that drop pod melta squad that doesnt involve them?

 

[ntaw]

So to keep it tactics oriented, how do you normally use tacticals in BA?

I play them as in this list, a lone MG at ten models mounted in a Rhino. I could put Heavy Bolters in there, but I'd often rather use the points elsewhere until I can maguiver some Heavy Flamers. Good job on yours by the way, simple but instantly looks like something more than the standard Flamer.

Any good ideas on converting combimeltas? That or alternative load out for that drop pod melta squad that doesnt involve them?

I'd do this for the combi-meltas if needed. As for the Podded squad, what would you suggest as an alternate loadout? I also play my RAS with twin Hand Flamers on the Sergeant and two Flamers in the squad but have infantry harassment covered well with the two Furiosos. I like the balance of having something that can threaten TEQ/heavy armour in a Pod as well, Plasma Guns/Pistols are great but I am less than trusting of them (plus that's the most expensive route).