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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys and gals,

It’s been a while since I last visited. I noticed back then most questions had been asked and answered.

Now I’m facing a new challenge. The Dutch Grand Tournament is about to take place and the rulespack is such (a mess) that lists that want to compete at the top really need to be tuned to it.

Five missions will be played and three of them will be ‘annihilation’ in which kill points will decide the victor. Difference in kill points and victory points will up the win/lose difference. The other two missions are capture and control and seize ground. In those missions there are weird rules about burning terrain blocking LoS and all game nightfight. Favouring assault armies over shooty armies imho.

The last year I’ve been playing Mechanised Guard and everything looked well set-up for this years GT, when the rulespack came out… “THE HORROR, the HORROR, the horror…” Three missions with kill points… While I was playing a list with 18 kill points. Rules that reduce ranged firepower… While I need some time to hurt onrushing armies.

I played some preparation tournaments (which were well attended, including former GT winners) and the only possible conclusion was: “Build yourself a different army my son.” Most people playing have looked at the rulespack and decided to go ‘elite’. Small durable units that pack a punch. Ofcourse FateCrusher is being played, tyranid lists with trygons/flyrant and outflanking genestealers and SM armies with bikes, landraiders and terminators also appear.

Most armies seem to take 10 or less kill points. 8 KP is about minimum size.

So I’ve come up with a new take on my mechanised list. What do you guys think of it? Any helpfull comments are welcome and appreciated.

Armylist “144th Balduovian Mechanised”
“Armoured Battlegroup Rolling Thunder”

HQ- [6] Company Command Squad w/ 4 meltaguns and astropath @ 120pts
TR- [10] Veterans w/ 3 meltaguns @ 100pts
TR- [10] Veterans w/ 3 plasmaguns @ 115pts
TR- [10] Veterans w/ 3 plasmaguns @ 115pts
FA- [1] Vendetta w/ 3 twin-linked lascannons @ 130pts
FA- [1] Vendetta w/ 3 twin-linked lascannons @ 130pts
FA- [1] Vendetta w/ 3 twin-linked lascannons @ 130pts
HS- [1] Leman Russ Executioner w/ plasma sponsons and dozer blade @ 240pts
HS- [2] Leman Russ Battletanks w/ 1 dozerblade @ 310pts
HS- [2] Leman Russ Battletanks w/ 1 dozerblade @ 310pts

Total: 44 models, incl 8 vehicles, 10 kill points @ 1700pts

Stategy is really simple. Pound the enemy with templates, kill their armour with lascannons and pick off the remnants with veterans/CCS. If I face serious (AV14) armour I’ll try to alphastrike those (landraiders) with the CCS and melta-vets. Against Daemons and outflaking nids I’ll keep everything in reserve and roll on shooting on the side of the board that offers me most advantage (refused flank). Usually the meltavets hold a home objective or cower in cover waiting for a chance to pop something.

Historically GT tables (over here) are very clean and open in the way of terrain. Templates should do good damage. The vendettas have proven their worth time after time (if only because of the wow-factor) and the plasma vets are awesome against high toughness, good save stuff that deepstrikes into my gunline. The weak point I see is I only have 3 claiming troop choices, but that’s because of the rulespack. In those missions just claim one, contest the others and you’re done. Or just wipe out the opposition and be done with it.

I know it’s not the most fun/exciting list you’ve ever seen, but that’s because of the rulespack. I like playing my chimera-vets/artillery/airplanes list more, but it doesn’t stand a chance in this tournament.

What do youy guys think?

Greetz
 

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I think you need something for the CCS to travel in. Very easy KP without transport...

Do you really need a dozer blade on the Executioner? I doubt it will do much moving about if you've got the sponsons on.

Other than that; is there really much more you can do with the rules the way they are?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think you need something for the CCS to travel in. Very easy KP without transport...
The CCS travels in one of the vendettas. Depending on the opponent one unit of veterans (plasma or melta) will stay back in cover. But the CCS could be an alphastrike 'fire and forget' unit. Exchanging the CCS for a expensive high armour tank is acceptable to me.

Do you really need a dozer blade on the Executioner? I doubt it will do much moving about if you've got the sponsons on.
I really feel I need the dozer blade. lately I've had a run of 1's on tables with lots of terrain. You're right that the executioner should stand still and fire away, but it should be able to get to a good firing position without going *crunk*. And the 10pts are not really better spend on anything else.

Other than that; is there really much more you can do with the rules the way they are?
I don't think there is, but maybe I'm missing something obvious. (After a while you get pretty blind to your own preferences.)

Greetz
 

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Considering the Tournament conditions you're limited to what will work, so although I don't like putting Vets in Vendettas for early-game use what choice do you have if Chimeras are out.

I like Dozer Blades as well..I play on terrain-heavy boards so they can be a godsend..and if you have nothing else to spend the points on then why not take them.

Great to see some Plasma Vets as well..people are far too scared of get's hot these days and forget the benefits..2 shot, decent range, negate FNP etc.
Good list..best of luck with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Hobo,

Plasma-vets are far more efficient than melta-vets in my games. I still need some melta to stop heavy armour and maybe instant kill a T4 character (without eternal warrior). The plasma-vets really shine against monstrous creatures (twin-link with orders) and against threats that appear close to your firebase. No one likes 6 rapid-fire S7 AP2 shots on their model/unit.

You're correct that the major loss to my list (because of the rulespack) is the lack of chimeras. But 3 or 4 chimeras just adds too many (easy) kill points to the list.)

[note: I didn't mention it in the list, but all tanks have heavy flamers.]

I'll let you know how it went. Next saturday I'll test the list at a decent (50 players) tournament where most people will also test their GT armies.

Greetz
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well,

Yesterday I've tested the list on a 40+ person tournament. (A serious one for the national ranking.) The list performed pretty well and the result was a firstplace tie (2 people with equal command points and painting/wysiwyg) which was decided on victory points scored on the last battle. Unforyunatley for me the other guys tabled his opponent, so he got first and I got second place.

Short battle reps:

Battle 1; seize ground with 3 objectives: Played against another Guard army. He had 2 LRBT's with LC, 1 bane wolf, 2 vendettas, 2 squads of plasma vets, CCS with Yarrick in chimera, PCS with flamers, 5 inf squads with meltas, 2 HWS with 3 ML and 3 AC. During the game LRBT's and vendettas exchanged fire, resulting in 2 destroyed vendettas on both sides. I killed the bane wolf, killed the vets, killed some guardsmen and took 2 objectives. I lost 2 vendettas and part of a veteran squad. This resulted in a 17-8 victory for me.

Battle 2; objectives: played against a CSM (nightlords) army. Kind of a special mission. You had to kill your opponents three most expensive models (only one vehicles allowed as expensive unit). My Company Commander, astropath (both in CCS) and executioner where objectives. My opponents targets were a predator, a CSM lord with jumppack and a slaanesh daemon prince. He played 6 CSM bikes, 8 raptors, 2 troops choices in rhinos with meltaguns, powerfist champs and icons. He held 2 oblits and 4 terminators in reserve. This game was a complete mismatch and my opponent was really unlucky with his rolls. I seized the innitiative and my 'alphastrike' first turn took out half his army. The predator fell to a vendetta, the bikes got nuked by the LRBT's and ran off the table. The LRBT's also hit the raptors taking out four and they fall back to within 1" off the edge... Both rhino's got popped by the other vendettas. On turn two he got his teminators with combiplasmas who failed to pop a squad of LRBT's in the back. The termies then fell to the executioner and vendetta lascannons. In the end I had to go get the daemon prince that refused to come out of hiding. The plasma vets got that job done and the result was a 25-0 and some apologies for my opponent who took everything really good.

Battle 3; annihilation (no kill points, just victory points): I played an all terminator (ravenwing?) list. The othe guy had 1 landraider crusader, 2 vindicators, 1 landspeeder MM/HF, 4 units terminators and Belial as HQ. I was on table 1, so I reconned I was in the top 5 and i felt some pressure to take this game, BUT I have a really bad record against landraiders. My opponent got to go first and immediatly his LRC rushed me and popped smoke, the speeders turboboosted to get a next turn shot at my vendettas and all terminators walked and shot ML's and AC's not really doing anything shocking. My first turn I killed the speeder, took the cannon of a vindicator and learned that the old smokelaunchers where on the LRC. A penetrating 3shot became a glancing 1 automatically. Turn 2 and the LRC moved again and unloaded 5 terminators and Belial within assault range of a vendetta. The dudes all charged it and... didn't do cr*p. THAT was the battle deciding turn. plasma veterans disembarked, vendetta ran off to safety and the executioner annihilated his second unit of the day. The rest of the battle consisted of terminators walking/shooting their way to me, and failing. Two vendettas fell to assault cannon fire and nine veterans also died. The executioner continued it's 'reign of fire'. In the end the landraider and a vindicator had no more weapons, but were still getting away from me. The result was a 20-5 in my favour.

Conclusion
All in all a good preparation for the Dutch GT, but again I found myself unable to deal with a landraider. I'n seriously considering taking the dozer blades off and putting demolitions on the melta vets. It's a possible alphastrike and I found the vets able to assault that LRC, but without meltabombs that was pointless.

Greetz
 

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I think it is a pretty awesome list, a bit too many vendettas for my liking but the sheer amount of AV14 is terrifying!

Who won the Leiden tourney and with what army?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Nidzrule,

The guy who won the Leiden event is called Nico. (If your anybody in the Dutch scene, you'll know the guy. Former GT winner and I'm putting my money on him for the upcoming GT this weekend.) I won't spell out his name, because I don't know if he likes that.

The list he played and will play this weekend is a (Codex Daemons) FateCrusher. he actually faced 3 Space Wolf lists in 3 consequetive battles and tabled the lot.

Basically he has 1 fateweaver, 3x5 bloodcrushers, 1 special character that joins the bloodcrushers (some awesome khorne dude), 2x5 nurgle thingies (T5/fnp, troops) and a nurgle daemonprince.

The whole trick revolves around keeping the fateweaver within 6" of the bloodcrusher units. This gives re-rolls to EVERY failed save. So that means re-rollable 3+/5++ saves. Then the bloodcrushers are T5 W2 and eternal warrior with all different weapons... so wound allocation abuse and voila... practically nothing dies. (The GT will feature 3 kill point missions, so giving nothing away is very important.) It's a very strong list and so far nothing has beaten it. A RazorWolf list came close, but no cigar.

Greetz
 

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I had the privilege to play against Nico at the Dutch Frenzy last year. I got mauled badly. The guy is a genius with Daemons. I know Fatecrusher is somewhat simple to run, but I've never seen someone run the list with as much finesse as Nico did.

IP: Glad to hear your list is working well. Where, if I might ask, could I find the rulepack for the GT? I'm thinking about bringing my Death Guard to the tournament, if I can get the models ready in time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I heard that the list was beaten at the GT by a Thunderwolf Cavalry list that spammed JOTWW.
Yes, but what you didn't hear was that the SW player screwed the FateCrusher player with the JotWW. I'd go as far as to say he intentionally cheated and should have been banned from the tournament. The SW player became the best player (most points from battles) and Nico ended Overall Champion (battles, painting, quiz).

@ ITS

The tournament was last weekend. Do you still want the rulespack? It's probably online, but difficult to find. I do have it and could mail it. I'll see if I can find it online.

My tournament was disapointing.
1st battle: 14 - 6 win (white scars, 4x5 bikes, 3x3 dreads in drop-pods)
2nd battle: 14 - 6 win (Vanilla SM, shrike, assault marines, LR, terminators, scouts)
3th battle: 8 - 12 loss (Eldar, 2 seer counsils, jetbikes, shining spears, firedragons, falcon, fire prism)
4th battle: 10 - 10 draw (Vulkan marines, vindicators, attack bikes, speeders, rhino squads)
5th battle: 20 - 0 win (Orks, battlewagons, trukks, looted tank, nob bikers)

Don't know my end result yet, but I'm guessing between 20th and 30th place.
(I finished my last massacre early and decided to go home and see the family.)

Greetz
 

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Damn, that's a shame. I was hoping to go this year, as I move back to the US next year so this was my last chance. And there's talk that there won't be Frenzy this year either. Something to do with GW Netherlands having to start acting more like Germany and France (No Frenzy, but maybe a GamesDay in a few years' time).

Gotta agree with Bishop, though. Seems like pretty good results. Do you know what list ended up taking 1st place?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
InquisitorTidusSolomon said:
Do you know what list ended up taking 1st place?
Depening on what you considder 'the' winner it was FateCrusher 'overall winner' (most points for battles, painting, quiz) and 'best general' (most command points) I think was a Polish guy (he also won 2 years ago) who played vanilla marines. But best general could have been the Malaysian guy with the Space Wolves list who won last year also.

The results haven't been posted online yet and I left a bit early. (After my 20 minutes massacre/surrender game that was not real fun.)

bishop5 said:
What worked/didn't work?
Well, most units performed as expected and as tested. My real weakness was being unable to take care of AV14 (landraiders) from a distance. My vendettas perform well against anything up to AV13, but AV14 is just out of reach of S9. (Other people popped a landraider a turn with their vendettas, maybe mine are just cursed.) So I feel a manticore would have helped greatly, but it would only have enlarged the annihilation wins. The real problem was the lack of mobile troops (claiming) and that means I really missed my chimeras. Again, they would have been easy kill points. Overall I think the list performed as expected. A better result could have been scored against other opponents (luck of the draw) and some luck in game (dice gods). I did make one real last turn mistake during battle 3 that cost me 4 command points (the minor loss should have been a minor win).

To be honest I was aiming for 75 command points, but that result would have put me in the top5 or top10... so maybe I was aiming a bit high. 70pts (4 wins and 1 draw) would have been great.

The future of the Dutch GT is a bit unsure as mentioned. The group called 'the outriders' who organised the official GW events are disbanded. The same people will continue to do their thing, but withou official consent by GW. So we'll see what happens next. I think nothing much will change, except in name.

Greetz
 

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The future of the Dutch GT is a bit unsure as mentioned. The group called 'the outriders' who organised the official GW events are disbanded. The same people will continue to do their thing, but withou official consent by GW. So we'll see what happens next. I think nothing much will change, except in name.
Well, that's good news, at least. I love Frenzy and I really liked the atmosphere of it. Much friendlier than the GT, and it's nice having the chaps from FW and BL at the event. Plus, it was a great deal of fun for all the guys at the GW in Den Haag to get together after every match and compare how we'd all done.
 

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Get some Gk support troops against this guy, if you take an inquisitor with a psycannon thats 35 points and can take out the fateweaver in 1 volley
 
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