[yamnosaj]

all i know is the guy plays troop heavy imperials so i have created this list what do you think?

1 x skulltaker (be put in with the bloodletters)
1 x masque (never usually use her but i think she could be quite useful in pulling units towards me in this battle)
1 x herald of khorne (in unit with crushers)
3 x crushers (1 fury, 1 icon)
3 x flamers
3 x flamers
14 x bloodletters (1 icon)
7 x plaguebearers
5 x horrors (changling)
1 x soul grinder (phlegm)
1 x soul grinder (phlegm)

is 1499 points. My only concern is should he bring a lot of vehicles i dont have my usual bit hitters. was thinking of putting tongue on one of the grinders and giving the horrors bolt. But am unsure. What do you guys think?

 

[Tim/Steve]

Well, this list doesnt really look like its designed to play against imperials. Normally I build lists designed to play against anybody (was about to say balanced but it would have been a lie), but throwing that out the window and just building vs an imperial hoard I would say this:

Skulltaker- really not needed, a basic herald of khorne would do just as good a job. His extra rending abilities dont work vs vehicles and there is no big bad enemy IC/MC that he can be sent after... I would save the points and do other things.

Masque- I really dont like her at all... and vs IG she'll do nothing for you at all. While her abilities are a little iffy its her vulnerability that makes her useless. She cant join units and is only T3: a 3++ is good but still means she should die from an average of 24 lasgun shots, pretty easy for an imperial hoard to manage (especially with orders). He'll have enough units to be able to spare just enough firepower to kill her too, so its not like vs a SM army where deciding to kill her would be massive overkill and stop a large portion of fire from hitting the rest of your army. Again, save the points.

Flamers- pretty useless against IG. Dont even try to drop them in close for breath of chaos, it simply isnt worth the risk. They are pretty good for dropping in the backfield and jumping to where they are needed to add fire support with warpfire, although if thats what you want I'ld spend the points on horrors instead (much harder to kill in teh same pts value and many more shots, even with accuracy considered).

Bloodletters- unnessessary. They're designed for killing marines and terminators, against guardsmen they are just overkill. Daemonettes are far far better when against T3 enemies, especially those with poor armuor saves like guardsmen: they may be T3 but fleet means you dont automatcially have to spend a turn in RF range before you charge.




Vs an IG hoad army daemonettes and horrors are your best offense (with plaguebearers being the eternally useful unit that they are- drop them close and just walk them forward: draw fire or lock the enemy in combat, eitehr way you win). The SCs, flamers and bloodletters arent really very useful so should be cut if you can replace them with anything more useful. As normal fiends are awesome (some things never change).
Vehicles are a problem, as always, which is why I like my slaaneshi units (lots of rending) and if you take mulitple units of horrors I would include bolts on them even if you arent expecting tanks... sometimes having a shot that ignores armour and FNP is pretty useful (eg command squads).

 

[yamnosaj]

can i ask why suiciding my flamers isn't worth the risk? Surely with a horde army dropping three flamers in front of a huge mass of enemies where they can't get cover or armour saves and die on a 4+ is good for me?

 

[KingOfCheese]

can i ask why suiciding my flamers isn't worth the risk? Surely with a horde army dropping three flamers in front of a huge mass of enemies where they can't get cover or armour saves and die on a 4+ is good for me?

Too much risk coming in so close to the enemy.
Not worth risking losing your whole squad just to take out a couple of guardsmen.

 

[yamnosaj]

thats always the risk though if you suicide the flamers though (as well as scattering). The benefit though is wiping out an entire horde squad (which I've done against orcs time and time again). But I always go with the benefit out weighing the risk. (although i only send one flamer squad as a suicide squad and the other as a support squad).

 

[Tim/Steve]

Against marines or terminators suiciding flamers right in close is a great plan, since you are gambling on killing expensive models with good armour saves automatically on a roll of 4+ (other then invulnerable saves), but with guardsmen you risk serious mishaps just to kill some cheap, low T, low armour save enemies that frankly arent worth it.
When I face IG with my tzeentch army I always drop the flamers in about 15" from 1-2 enemy squads and just use warpfire- its still effective and doesnt risk the DS mishap. 3 shots hitting on 3+ and wounding on 3+ is 1.3 dead guardsmen average... while landing on target with a suicide squad, covering 5-6 enemies and then wounding them is spectacular when it works, its also very risky- 2/3 times you scatter, if you scatter towords the enemy its almost always a mishap, and scatter away and you either dont have the range on your flamer template or its not worth doing.


Vs IG flamers are probably most useful against tanks, especially units of tanks like a leman russ or basilisk squadron...

 

[Uilleam]

Your best bet in dealing with Mech is to drop your Heralds, Skulltaker, Masque, etc, and get some very ugly flying MCs.:victory: I use 2 Thirsters but Lords of Change will work quite nicely too! These guys move just as fast as the opposistions tanks, are extremely hard to kill, and dish out a ton of hurt with 2d6 armour pen in CC and shooting attacks for the Lords. Vs most rear armour of 10 or 11 it's not even an 'if' they can penetrate it it. Just how you roll on the damage table. Thirsters with Unholy Might will decimate a Raider. I use to regularily kill 3 all the time but my bud has temporarily retired his Grey Knights. I wonder why...? :angel:

 

[yamnosaj]

id normally field my thirster but as its only 1500 points i dont really want to spend 270 of that on a thirster with all the bits he needs. Which is why i'm trying to go for cheaper options.

ive changed to:
1 x herald of khorne (on jug, + might + blessing)
3 x flamers
3 x flamers
3 x crushers (1 fury, 1 icon)
15 x bloodletters (1 icon)
10 x plaguebearers
5 x horrors (1 changling, 1 bolt)
10 x daemonettes
1 x soulgrinder (phlegm, tongue)
1 x soulgrinder (phlegm)

wave 1:
herald + crushers
plaguebearers
horrors
soulgrinder
soulgrinder

wave 2
flamers
flamers
bloodletters
daemonettes

I would include more horrors if i could, but i only have 5 sadly when the plastic ones come about i shall be bathing in them. but until then i have to make do with only 5.

 

[Uilleam]

I'd drop Tounge off the Grinder. He's only BS 3 and it's shoot either the Phlegm (Yay!) or Tounge (Boo!). That will free up enough points for almost 2 more lil Daemons!

 

[yamnosaj]

im just worried should he decide to completely change his list and go for loadsa vehicles i'm going to need something thats going to help me.

 

[Sabatine]

phlem causes a glance on a 4+ if under templet not the little hole