[ntaw]

Hey man, get rid of all those itemized points costs. Against Heresy rules and all.

More to come on the list when I get back.

 

[ntaw]

As much as I love Drop Pods, in this list I will agree with vonklaude. Rhinos can provide mobile cover for not only the Troops inside, but the rest of your army as well. With the new Vehicle Damage Chart you stand a much better chance of having them survive past the first couple Missile shots from the enemy. Following that, I would change the Captain's weapon to a Power Fist (because Concussive is hard to capitalize on) and use those 5 points to upgrade the Melta in the Tactical squad to a Plasma Gun, again in agreement with vonklaude. Range is better out of the top hatch of a Rhino where Meltas/Flamers are better in a Drop Pod. I do truly think that the Centurions and Land Raider taking up a full third of your points is an issue, but I've won games with thinner lists.

 

[ntaw]

You can keep them in no problem, I just feel like Rhinos would serve your list better. If you want to build a list around Drop Pods you're gunna need a few more Drop Pods, always in odd numbers. That way you capitalize on the whole Turn 1 Deep Strike thing with them. Most Pod lists deal with smaller size units, Dreadnoughts, and 5+ Pods, depending on points limit.

 

[ntaw]

Wow, I just realized that was a Crusader and not a Redeemer with Multi Melta. You should try out both tanks, I basically only use the Redeemer at this point. Those flamers are just way more useful.

 

[ntaw]

I just spent a while (altogether too long) looking for a thread where this came up, but alas. The search function on this site leave much to be desired and I can't for the life of me remember where it came up to browse through my own post history. 10 times out of 10 whatever's inside my Land Raider wants to get close, and the flamer's AP3 has killed a lot more enemy soldiers than a couple of Bolters on either side. It comes down to play style for sure, but I'm pretty sure at range the dice gods (aka. math, but where's the fun in that) favour the template option.

As for the minion of Chaos remark....I guess being primarily a Blood Angel player I'm pretty close! Rumour has it the new Codex will introduce further strained ties between my beloved space vampires and the Inquisition. I've always though it would be cool to convert up a small Damon-posessed BA force but haven't yet gotten the time and money to do so.

 

[ntaw]

:laugh: as someone who plays Deathwing and uses a lot of terrain, I wish you luck deep striking a ten man terminator squad without a mishap. Two 5-man squads will be a lot easier to deal with (not to mention more chances of at least 5 making it on table), but even still I don't play that game without allying in an Inquisitor for some Servo Skulls to reduce scatter by D6". Have you given any thought to using a Captain with Artificer armour and an Command Squad combined with a Sternguard squad both in Drop Pods? A Command Squad with 5x Storm Shields and 5x Power Weapons/Lightning Claws and a 5x man Sternguard squad with 5x Combi-Weapons is only 15 points more than the 10 man Hammernator squad. I would be tempted in a Drop Pod list to run something more like:

Captain - Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Lightning Claw

Command Squad - 5x Storm Shields, 3x Lightning Claws, 2x Power Axes, Drop Pod

5x Sternguard - 5x Combi-Meltas, Drop Pod

Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Fist/Stormbolter, Drop Pod

Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Fist/Stormbolter, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

Comes out at 1500 points bang on, plus your Captain can Sweeping Advance. Personally I would drop the Combi-Weapons and Power Swords from the Tactical squads for a 5x man Scout squad with Sniper Rifles and Camo. It pays to have a unit on the other side of the board from your attack holding an objective. You either keep that objective or your opponent turns away from what's actually going to kill him to deal with a 70 point unit far away from the rest of your force.

 

[ntaw]

On a side note, ntaw are you the same ntaw I was playing Space Marine with yesterday? lol

One and the same, what were we playing? I've just started running a lot of Seize Ground with occasional bursts of Annihilation because I got sick of Exterminatus. It's a whole new game against humans, Orks were getting old.

Glad to help with the list, I'm a hell of a lot better at 40k than Space Marine.

 

[ntaw]

Those servers....I find if I log back in everything typically works fine. Been trying to get the Bolter Targeter (or whatever it's called), but god damn kill streaks are tough when you're actually trying to cap points. 2 kills sure, but three? Fuckin' Meltas, Chainswords, and Lascannons ruin it all :laugh: Add me on Steam if you like, I'm playing that game often enough and it's always better with people you know.

 

[ntaw]

Confirmed. I've been thinking of getting a buddy into a private game on Annihilation just to level up our characters, but it seems so cheap

 

[ntaw]

I agree about splitting the termies into 2x 5-man squads. That's how I'd field them.

:laugh: It certainly read that you suggested that Shunter play a 10 man squad last page.

I don't agree with the flamers unless you know you aren't fighting armour.

So then you don't agree with all-comers lists? There's tons of anti-armour still in the list, it also has anti-infantry options for close range. What did a Melta Gun ever do to an Ork mob that a Flamer couldn't do better? Remember, Flamers are great for Overwatch as well. I've denied tons of charges just by killing the one model out front as the distance gets rolled.

I don't agree with the command squad. They're doing about the same job as the hammernators, but more expensively and without thunderhammers!

They come in at 225 points base, so they're exactly the same as a 5 man squad of TH/SS Terminators. They have more wargear options, can take an Apothecary for Feel No Pain, have the option of taking a cheap transport that gets them in T1, can sweeping advance...OK, so they don't have S8 attacks in CC or 2+ natural saves, but if you don't like how they're kitted switch it up. Basically anything will cost less points than what I have suggested, I just went with a similar CC presence to what was there before. There are lots of other options, one I have played and loved (though had to proxy some wargear) was 4x Storm Shields, 3x Meltas, Power Fist, Apothecary. This comes out to 245 with a Drop Pod, which is just less than my initial suggestion and definitely kicked some ass for me.

The scout squad could work, but I'd focus on making the strike plan work first!

Scouts work in basically every scenario as objective campers, the only mission they fail miserably in is Purge the Alien in my experience. Considering I only suggested dropping frivolous wargear upgrades I fail to see how I have compromised the 'strike plan' in any way...considering I'm the one who upped it to 7 Drop Pods

I used to prefer the idea of two termie units deepstriking to one in a raider, but I've done a U turn on that.

I only Deep Strike Deathwing Terminators these days. Less variability plus T1 arrival is key. Occasionally my Grey Knights will deploy the same, but more typically in a Raider. My Imperial Fist Hammernators live in their Redeemer until the moment is right, and I typically play a ML2 Libby with them gunning for Invisibility. One game when I got it that squad was responsible for destroying a third of my enemy's army. Would have never gotten there without the tank.

Consider units you might want to charge with your TH/SS termies; maybe knights, wraithknights, riptides- they're just going to zip off in the opposite direction if you deepstrike next to them.

Can't everything you listed there also take out a Land Raider at range, flat tiring your advance? I ask because I haven't faced such opponents yet. Not that I have changed my mind about the tank use, just curious.

 

[ntaw]

For some reason I thought all those models had more long range anti armour than that.

 

[ntaw]

Well, an 18" melta-range large blast on the Knight isn't bad

18" to roll 2D6 for armour penetration is pretty swank. I'm assuming that you can move at least 6" with a Knight and still fire that weapon which would really give it a 24" melta reach in your own turn, but alas it is still one shot that can scatter (I'm assuming since it's a large blast). With the size of a Land Raider and that of a large blast, if you put in centred on the tank and subtracted the BS of 4 from the scatter wouldn't you have to roll higher than 7" to get it full off the tank? More if the scatter takes it off the front or back as it's a rectangular shape. Ultimately it seems like you have done the math for this, it just seems like a mere 13% chance to kill a Land Raider seems pretty low for a weapon like this.

Don't get me wrong, I like Land Raiders and use them for hammernators frequently. I just don't like a lone Land Raider in a Drop Pod list, every time I've put just one big thing on the table like that something's gone terribly wrong. It all comes down to terrain and what you're facing, I guess I just face a lot of stuff that can blow up/glance down AV14 T1 given no other targets (and not enough scenery that can totally hide a tank that size).

I mean, there's also three Drop Pods with Melta Capabilities to jump in close and take on a Knight. The Command Squad could easily be tooled to the same or similar shooting capabilities for less points (as I suggested in another post) if you really felt that there wasn't enough anti-armour without Thunder Hammers involved. If you can't take a Knight out with 4-8 Melta shots are you really gunna take it out in Close Combat with Hammers? **Honest question as I haven't faced a Knight before.

 

[ntaw]

So better than before, but not by much. Since the purpose of this side conversation to the list is whether or not the Raider is viable as a transport though, consider that an Immobilized result pretty much has the same effect on the passengers as an Explodes! one as they are now forced to continue on foot. However,

On topic and point blank: if you were to play this list would you use the TH/SS Terminators in a Land Raider, TH/SS Terminators as two 5 man squads, or would you play the Command Squad and Sternguard option I presented? Or would you change everything about the list?