[Shunter]

Hi all, new to this forum I have recently started an Ultramarines army that I want to make to 1500 points for now anyway. I want to make it an all comers list but am unsure if this is viable or not. any advice and guidance would be appreciated.

Chapter Master, Artificer Armor, Bike, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer

Terminator Assault Squad 5 X TH/SS

Bike Squad - 5 X Space Marine Bikers with 2 X Meltaguns, Biker Sergeant with Chainsword

Tactical Squad, Meltagun, 9x Space Marine, Drop Pod with Storm Bolter, Sergeant, Combi-Melta, Power Fist

Tactical Squad, Plasma Gun, 9x Space Marine, Drop Pod with Storm Bolter, Sergeant, Combi-Plasma, Power Weapon

Centurion Devastator Squad, 3x Grav-cannon and grav-amp

Land Raider Crusader

 

[vonklaude]

Hi all, new to this forum I have recently started an Ultramarines army that I want to make to 1500 points for now anyway. I want to make it an all comers list but am unsure if this is viable or not. any advice and guidance would be appreciated.

HQ (215pts)

• Chapter Master (215pts) Artificer Armor, Bike, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer

Elites (225pts)

• Terminator Assault Squad (225pts) 5 X TH/SS

Troops (560pts)

• Bike Squad (125pts)
  5 X Space Marine Bikers with 2 X Meltaguns, Biker Sergeant with Chainsword

• Tactical Squad (220pts) Meltagun, 9x Space Marine
  • Drop Pod: Storm Bolter
  • Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-Melta, Power Fist
• Tactical Squad (215pts) Plasma Gun, 9x Space Marine
  • Drop Pod: Storm Bolter
  • Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-Plasma, Power Weapon

Heavy Support (500pts)

• Centurion Devastator Squad (250pts) 3x Grav-cannon and grav-amp

• Land Raider Crusader (250pts)

I suspect the drop pods won't work well with the bikes, and would suggest rhinos instead. Or I would equip both squads the same way - with melta. It's not that plasma is a bad choice. Plasma is a good choice. But I see plasma better for shooting from the hatch than for dropping right into the enemy lines. Melta is probably nastier for that. I would also see if I could find points for an MM on the Crusader as it is a bargain.

Did you consider any characters?

 

[ntaw]

Hey man, get rid of all those itemized points costs. Against Heresy rules and all.

More to come on the list when I get back.

 

[ntaw]

As much as I love Drop Pods, in this list I will agree with vonklaude. Rhinos can provide mobile cover for not only the Troops inside, but the rest of your army as well. With the new Vehicle Damage Chart you stand a much better chance of having them survive past the first couple Missile shots from the enemy. Following that, I would change the Captain's weapon to a Power Fist (because Concussive is hard to capitalize on) and use those 5 points to upgrade the Melta in the Tactical squad to a Plasma Gun, again in agreement with vonklaude. Range is better out of the top hatch of a Rhino where Meltas/Flamers are better in a Drop Pod. I do truly think that the Centurions and Land Raider taking up a full third of your points is an issue, but I've won games with thinner lists.

 

[Shunter]

Thanks for the advice, I did want my army to be a drop pod list and so preferably keep them in, what would you guys recommend for a list based around that?

 

[ntaw]

You can keep them in no problem, I just feel like Rhinos would serve your list better. If you want to build a list around Drop Pods you're gunna need a few more Drop Pods, always in odd numbers. That way you capitalize on the whole Turn 1 Deep Strike thing with them. Most Pod lists deal with smaller size units, Dreadnoughts, and 5+ Pods, depending on points limit.

 

[vonklaude]

You can keep them in no problem, I just feel like Rhinos would serve your list better. If you want to build a list around Drop Pods you're gunna need a few more Drop Pods, always in odd numbers. That way you capitalize on the whole Turn 1 Deep Strike thing with them. Most Pod lists deal with smaller size units, Dreadnoughts, and 5+ Pods, depending on points limit.

I agree with ntaw here. 5 pods could be about right. Maybe instead of suggesting specifics, I can suggest some principles that could influence your choices.

1. What is your concept for winning? What will your force do to take the game?
2. Does your concept fit well with the army you've chosen? Marines are no good at artillery range. They can be decent in assault. They are best at putting down a lot of medium and medium-long fire.
3. Are you offering your opponent easy targets? Or are you forcing him to choose between equal threats?
4. What range(s) are you choosing to operate at? Are your units weapons coordinated or diluted at that range? If you split your units into lots of different jobs they end up covering each range weakly and can't support one another because the range that one unit wants to work at is totally different from the range another wants to work at. That in turn can make them vulnerable to assaults because they are separated across the field. Your plan often will need you to cover more than one range of course, but be careful of stranding lone units. Remember that a lot of the movement on the table is about getting your force into ideal range, while your opponent's is not. The more divided your units ranges are, the harder it is to do that and the less the weight of fire you drop onto opponent once you gain the range you want.
5. Can you deal with horde? Can you deal with armour? Can you deal with MEQ? e.g. flamers cover horde. TH/SS or melta will deal with most armour. Plasma is great for MEQ. For this reason often a combi-flamer is a good pick for a sgt, for a force that wants to stay at range, or an actual flamer for one that wants to get close.

Your initial force looks like it wants to win by striking into your opponent's lines. It feels very strike-y to me. But I can see also that it is split. Your Centurion Devastators probably wouldn't support striking as well as another drop pod and squad of tax would, or more bikes! Your squad armed with plasma wants to work at a different range from everything else in your list. So it is stranded on the field. All your sgts will want power weapons I should think, if planning to engage. Your Crusader is a good rock and could work well with your list, but would want an MM if planning to end up close to stuff.

Your picks are all reasonable and good units in their own way. I just feel they might not work as cohesively as you would like. Cohesive forces tend to be a real pleasure to play. While ones split over many jobs tend to feel a bit jumbled and unable to work how you want.

 

[ntaw]

Wow, I just realized that was a Crusader and not a Redeemer with Multi Melta. You should try out both tanks, I basically only use the Redeemer at this point. Those flamers are just way more useful.

 

[vonklaude]

Wow, I just realized that was a Crusader and not a Redeemer with Multi Melta. You should try out both tanks, I basically only use the Redeemer at this point. Those flamers are just way more useful.

Don't heed the words of a minion of Chaos. The Crusader is the superior tank...

Well, really that depends on your army concept. I see VSM as a hard-to-budge mid-range shooting army than assault (they can assault, but are better shooting). So for me the Crusader best fits. And that is true even if it is carrying TH/SS termies. But if your plan is to get in close then the Redeemer is not wholly without merit.

 

[ntaw]

I just spent a while (altogether too long) looking for a thread where this came up, but alas. The search function on this site leave much to be desired and I can't for the life of me remember where it came up to browse through my own post history. 10 times out of 10 whatever's inside my Land Raider wants to get close, and the flamer's AP3 has killed a lot more enemy soldiers than a couple of Bolters on either side. It comes down to play style for sure, but I'm pretty sure at range the dice gods (aka. math, but where's the fun in that) favour the template option.

As for the minion of Chaos remark....I guess being primarily a Blood Angel player I'm pretty close! Rumour has it the new Codex will introduce further strained ties between my beloved space vampires and the Inquisition. I've always though it would be cool to convert up a small Damon-posessed BA force but haven't yet gotten the time and money to do so.

 

[Shunter]

Thanks for all the input guys So i've had a look and came up with this, got 150 points spare and am unsure what to use it for. I was thinking of putting a termi captain with ass terminators but don't know where to get those points from.

• Terminator Captain, Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer

• Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Drop Pod

• Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Land Raider Crusader, Multi-Melta

 

[vonklaude]

Thanks for all the input guys So i've had a look and came up with this, got 150 points spare and am unsure what to use it for. I was thinking of putting a termi captain with ass terminators but don't know where to get those points from.

• Terminator Captain, Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer

• Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Drop Pod

• Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad, 10 Space Marines, Meltagun , Combi-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Land Raider Crusader, Multi-Melta

I quite like your list. You want the Crusader to deliver the terminators I guess, but why not instead double the number of termies and deep strike them in? Seeing as you are buying your captain termie armour.

 

[Shunter]

I quite like your list. You want the Crusader to deliver the terminators I guess, but why not instead double the number of termies and deep strike them in? Seeing as you are buying your captain termie armour.

I like the sound of that, this is what I've come up with, would this list be competitive?

• Terminator Captain, Power Fist, Storm Bolter

• Dreadnought, Extra Armour, Multi-Melta, Drop Pod

• Dreadnought, Extra Armour, Multi-Melta, Drop Pod

• Terminator Assault Squad, 10x TH/SS, 10x Terminators

• Tactical Squad X10 Space Marines, Meltagun, Comb-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad X10 Space Marines, Meltagun, Comb-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

• Tactical Squad X10 Space Marines, Meltagun, Comb-Melta, Power Weapon, Drop Pod

 

[ntaw]

:laugh: as someone who plays Deathwing and uses a lot of terrain, I wish you luck deep striking a ten man terminator squad without a mishap. Two 5-man squads will be a lot easier to deal with (not to mention more chances of at least 5 making it on table), but even still I don't play that game without allying in an Inquisitor for some Servo Skulls to reduce scatter by D6". Have you given any thought to using a Captain with Artificer armour and an Command Squad combined with a Sternguard squad both in Drop Pods? A Command Squad with 5x Storm Shields and 5x Power Weapons/Lightning Claws and a 5x man Sternguard squad with 5x Combi-Weapons is only 15 points more than the 10 man Hammernator squad. I would be tempted in a Drop Pod list to run something more like:

Captain - Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Lightning Claw

Command Squad - 5x Storm Shields, 3x Lightning Claws, 2x Power Axes, Drop Pod

5x Sternguard - 5x Combi-Meltas, Drop Pod

Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Fist/Stormbolter, Drop Pod

Dreadnought - Multi-Melta, Fist/Stormbolter, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Sword, Drop Pod

Comes out at 1500 points bang on, plus your Captain can Sweeping Advance. Personally I would drop the Combi-Weapons and Power Swords from the Tactical squads for a 5x man Scout squad with Sniper Rifles and Camo. It pays to have a unit on the other side of the board from your attack holding an objective. You either keep that objective or your opponent turns away from what's actually going to kill him to deal with a 70 point unit far away from the rest of your force.

 

[Shunter]

The issue with deepstriking makes a lot of sense and I suppose i could get a lot more firepower in with your list. I think I may try that without the scouts. Cheers for the help guys, most appreciated.

On a side note, ntaw are you the same ntaw I was playing Space Marine with yesterday? lol

 

[ntaw]

On a side note, ntaw are you the same ntaw I was playing Space Marine with yesterday? lol

One and the same, what were we playing? I've just started running a lot of Seize Ground with occasional bursts of Annihilation because I got sick of Exterminatus. It's a whole new game against humans, Orks were getting old.

Glad to help with the list, I'm a hell of a lot better at 40k than Space Marine.

 

[Shunter]

One and the same, what were we playing? I've just started running a lot of Seize Ground with occasional bursts of Annihilation because I got sick of Exterminatus. It's a whole new game against humans, Orks were getting old.

Glad to help with the list, I'm a hell of a lot better at 40k than Space Marine.

Yeah, think it was seize ground, played a few games with you until the servers cut out on me

 

[ntaw]

Those servers....I find if I log back in everything typically works fine. Been trying to get the Bolter Targeter (or whatever it's called), but god damn kill streaks are tough when you're actually trying to cap points. 2 kills sure, but three? Fuckin' Meltas, Chainswords, and Lascannons ruin it all :laugh: Add me on Steam if you like, I'm playing that game often enough and it's always better with people you know.

 

[Shunter]

Mate, tell me about it, I managed to get all the Bolter perks (after a lot of time and stress), and been working on getting the last challenge for killstreaks with the bolter for ages. Damn Assault marines and raptors make it near impossible I send you a request mate

 

[ntaw]

Confirmed. I've been thinking of getting a buddy into a private game on Annihilation just to level up our characters, but it seems so cheap