[Crimzzen]

Hey everyone,

As some people may know, Canada had it's Astronomi-CON in Vancouver last weekend at UBC. It was a lot of fun, probably the most fun I've had at a tourney in a long time. If you haven't been, I recommend it. The trophies were stellar, the competition was fierce and the painting was amazing. All in all, a very well run tourney with a very good player base. Because of how much I enjoyed it, I am already planning my list for next year - I'd like to have a shot at the best painted as well as best general so I'm going to start now. Play testing and painting for a year before. I've decided to go with a space wolves army for a few reasons. 1) I've a very cool idea for my version of a 'lost' space wolves company 2) Space wolves are a competitive army, and 3) The lower model count vs a horde army will allow me to put a lot more detail into the army (modeling/painting).

Revision 4 - The dreaded 13th - A Chaos Space Wolves Army

1500 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

HQ: Wolf Lord in Power Armour (3#, 280 pts)
1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour (Runic Armour; Thunderwolf Mount; 2x Fenrisian Wolf; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Saga of the Bear)

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour (1#, 100 pts)
1 Rune Priest in Power Armour @ 100 pts (Jaws of the World Wolf; Living Lightning)

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (6#, 190 pts)
4 Long Fangs Pack @ 190 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Squad Leader (Fire Control)
1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (6#, 190 pts)
4 Long Fangs Pack @ 190 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Squad Leader (Fire Control)
1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (4#, 260 pts)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Power Fist)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bombs)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Storm Shield)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (7#, 165 pts)
5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 165 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (7#, 165 pts)
5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 165 pts (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 150 pts)
4 Grey Hunters Pack (Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen
1 Razorback (Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Total Roster Cost: 1500

Revision 3 - The dreaded 13th - A Chaos Space Wolves Army

1500 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour (1#, 100 pts)
1 Rune Priest in Power Armour @ 100 pts (Jaws of the World Wolf; Living Lightning)

HQ: Wolf Lord in Power Armour (3#, 285 pts)
1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour @ 275 pts (Runic Armour; Thunderwolf Mount; 2 Fenrisian Wolf; Thunder Hammer x1; Storm Shield x1; Wolf Tail Talisman; Saga of the Bear)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (6#, 115 pts)
5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 115 pts (Meltagun)
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (7#, 185 pts)
5 Grey Hunters Pack @ 185 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (7#, 200 pts)
6 Grey Hunters Pack @ 200 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Razorback (TL Heavy Bolter)

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack (7#, 200 pts)
6 Grey Hunters Pack @ 200 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Meltagun; Power Weapon)
1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Fast Attack: Thunderwolf Cavalry (4#, 260 pts)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Storm Shield)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Power Fist)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry (Melta Bomb)
1 Thunderwolf Cavalry

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack (6#, 155 pts)
4 Long Fangs Pack (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Squad Leader
1 Razorback (Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)

Total Roster Cost: 1500



Revision 2 - The dreaded 13th - A Chaos Space Wolves Army

280 Chaos Lord of Khorne (Wolf Lord) - Power Fist, Storm Shield, Runic Armour, Flesh Hounds (2), Juggernaut (Thunderwolf), Collar of Khorne (Wolf Tail Talisman), Blessings of the Blood God (Saga of the Bear)

100 Renegade Psyker (rune priest) - JotWW, Living Lightning

310 5x Heralds of Khorne (Juggernauts) (TWC) - 1 Power Fist, 1 Storm Shield, 1 Melta bomb, 1 Bolter

99 3X Dire Wolves - 2x Power Fist, 1 Combi-melta

115 5x Chaos Space Marines (Grey hunters) - Meltagun, Warp Gate (drop pod)

170 5x Chaos Space Marines (Grey hunters) - Meltagun, Possessed (MotW), Razorback /w LC/TL-PG

170 5x Chaos Space Marines (Grey hunters) - Meltagun, Possessed (MotW), Razorback /w LC/TL-PG

170 5x Chaos Space Marines (Grey hunters) - Meltagun, Possessed (MotW), Razorback /w LC/TL-PG

85 Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Thoughts on the new list? It gives me 4 scoring units - 1 of which pods in and either uses its 2 meltas to nuke something important or hits an objective. I'll have 4 vehicles moving up the field if need be, 3 of which are scoring. I've got my Deathstar unit which will be my centerpiece modeling wise. I sadly dropped Arjac but he bought me the second razorback unit.

So the Guard with the Combi-melta joins the podding unit. The other 2 join up in the razorbacks. The priest joins a unit in the razorback as well.




Old List

1500 - The dreaded 13th - A Chaos Space Wolves Army

280 Chaos Lord of Khorne (Wolf Lord) - Power Fist, Storm Shield, Runic Armour, Flesh Hounds (2), Juggernaut (Thunderwolf), Collar of Khorne (Wolf Tail Talisman), Blessings of the Blood God (Saga of the Bear)

120 Renegade Psyker (rune priest) - Runic Armour, JotWW, Living Lightning

310 5x Chaos Heralds of Khorne (juggernauts) (TWC) - 1 Power Fist, 1 Storm Shield, 1 Meltabomb, 1 Bolter

264 3x Dire Wolves (Wolf Guard) - 2 Power Fist, 1 Exalted Champion of Khorne (Arjac Rockfist)

185 8 Chaos Space Marines (Grey Hunters) - 1 Possessed (MotW), 1 Meltagun, 1 standard of Khorne (wolf standard), 1 Warp Gate (drop pod) - Arjac and Rune Priest here.

170 5 Chaos Space Marines (Grey Hunters) - 1 Possessed, 1 Meltagun, 1 Razorback (LC/TL-PG)

170 5 Chaos Space Marines (Grey Hunters) - 1 Possessed, 1 Meltagun, 1 Razorback (LC/TL-PG)





Essentially, tell me what you would do to stop it. Where it is weak and what you would change. I'll think about it and if req. present a counter-argument. Should lead to me building a better/stronger list or at least help me to prepare for the worst!

 

[gen.ahab]

.... The 13th company is loyalist. Other then that it isn't a bad list. I would give the lord a TH. Next I would drop the ruinic armor on the priest. Also, LL AND jotww is a waist, give them MH. Next I would drop arjac, he is cool but not great. Next you should give the twc a th. After that go razorspam all the way. Find a way to get some LF in.

 

[Crimzzen]

.... The 13th company is loyalist. Other then that it isn't a bad list. I would give the lord a TH. Next I would drop the ruinic armor on the priest. Also, LL AND jotww is a waist, give them MH. Next I would drop arjac, he is cool but not great. Next you should give the twc a th. After that go razorspam all the way. Find a way to get some LF in.

Heh, 13th company was a loyalist group before they disappeared. The great thing about this fluff is that I'm really free to make up whatever I want. Perhaps a group of them splintered off and became tainted by chaos? It's pretty much open.


Hmm, giving the lord a TH might be a good idea - would let me keep land raiders stunned if he doesn't wreck them. Although, he might just outright kill things making the TH useless. Thoughts?

Yeah, the runic armour is just a point filler. I guess in order to pull off the Arjac/RP combo the RP needs to leave the unit. The Runic armour povides some protection but I can probably do the same thing just with LoS blocking.

I really like Murderous Hurricane, I think it's an awesome ability but I doubt its usefulness if I'm dropping a priest in a pod with a meltagun and a thrown thunderhammer. I'm going to be hitting a vehicle that first turn and i can use LL for more hits. Or I can break off and JotWW something else. I don't know that I would actually MH anything unless there was a large unit of bikes. Thoughts?

Arjac is cool and for that reason I'm keeping him in the list. The modeling possibilities with kind of list are too much to pass up. Sorry, but Arjac is in


I'll drop the runic armour and look at throwing some TH's in the list. I'll take another look at MH as well.

 

[gen.ahab]

Th is never useless, you always want a backup plan.

MH is really good if you run into a horde army; you can drop it on a big unit and slow them down considerably, it is also good for bikers and such.

If you are looking more for a painting win than a combat win then leave him in, its a great character.

 

[hippypancake]

I must say I disagree on Arjac being cool but not great as I run him in most of my armies and he has failed to disappoint however I would drop the Wolflord for a Wolfpriest which is VASTLY better in almost all aspects imho then give him Saga of the Hunter, now comes the confusing part. Place him into the 8 man unit instead of the Runepriest and then outflank with the unit to start the popping of tanks earlier, instead of drop podding in (not like you could of with your list as Arjac counts as 2 models being a termi so you had 11 models in that drop pod). Now once again I am going to disagree with gen as JotWW is not a waste when it comes to scary figures with like 6 wounds, but I don't like living lightning as to me that is a waste with it being a d6. I say give your Runepriest MH and JotWW and you will make nids cry.

Now onward to the name. You are lucky I don't throttle you through your screen xD. There is a 0 percent chance for them to go to chaos as they were/are fighting in full company. They're last appearance was in the warp when the stupid Cadians attempted a couter-assault into the Eye which ended with them being raped...then the 13th came it be the living fuck out of the daemons and CSM (spikeh spess mahreens) so that the Cadians could get away...although at this point the only ones in the company that have any sense are most likely the wolf priests (much akin to the Death Company and their Chaplains.)

I would throttle you as I myself play 13th company, and I don't like it when people write them off as Khorne Berzerkers they're Emperor Berzerkers [enter holy figure here] dammit!

EDIT just did a quick glance over in lexicanum and it appears that these are the attributes of the 13th

No bloodclaws
Lots of Runepriests
Few Termis/Tanks
Lots of Wulfen

Space Wolves are exceptionally resistant to the malign influence of Chaos. It is believed that the 13th Company have only been able to survive living as loyalist marines in the Eye of terror so long precisely because of this trait.

and there's my proof that they arent evil xD

 

[gen.ahab]

I must say I disagree on Arjac being cool but not great as I run him in most of my armies and he has failed to disappoint .

He is overpriced and you can spend the points better elsewhere.

however I would drop the Wolflord for a Wolfpriest which is VASTLY better in almost all aspects imho then give him Saga of the Hunter, now comes the confusing part.

Are you fucking with me? That wasnt the confusing part? How the hell is that not confusing? Wolf Priests are the one of the least competitive HQ choices in the book, you couldnt get me to take one if you paid me. A TWC lord can rip armies appart; I once saw a TWC lord with a unit of cav kill a DP, 2 units of 10 zerks and kharn all in one game.... it was fucking amazing.

Now once again I am going to disagree with gen as JotWW is not a waste when it comes to scary figures with like 6 wounds, but I don't like living lightning as to me that is a waste with it being a d6. I say give your Runepriest MH and JotWW and you will make nids cry.

JotWW is VERY situational, sure it can bring down big badies, but not with any degree of certainty. LL Is much better on average.

 

[hippypancake]

He is overpriced and you can spend the points better elsewhere.

He is a perfect independent/special character/tank killer I don't know what you're smoking since we are doing extremes I've seen Arjac kill Yarrick five/six times a command platoon and a leman russ squad by himself so as I say I have had great results

Are you fucking with me? That wasnt the confusing part? How the hell is that not confusing? Wolf Priests are the one of the least competitive HQ choices in the book, you couldnt get me to take one if you paid me. A TWC lord can rip armies appart; I once saw a TWC lord with a unit of cav kill a DP, 2 units of 10 zerks and kharn all in one game.... it was fucking amazing.

I'm sorry but with a 3+ save 4+ invul BASE while giving the unit he's in preferred enemy BASE is fucking amazing. Since we are going on stories how about When I ran a wolfpriest with 15 stormclaws and laughed as they stomped two 30 man gaunt squads in two turns of combat then the wolfpriest broke off to take down a carnifex. So TWC Lords are good but as I said imho wolfpriests would hurt them.

JotWW is VERY situational, sure it can bring down big badies, but not with any degree of certainty. LL Is much better on average.

So wait JotWW is situational when no matter it hits and MEQ need a 4+ down to live while most units need 3+ or lower to live. While LL you get d6 shots X amount hit then X amount wound. the way I look at it, it seems that they are equally situational

 

[gen.ahab]

He is a perfect independent/special character/tank killer I don't know what you're smoking since we are doing extremes I've seen Arjac kill Yarrick five/six times a command platoon and a leman russ squad by himself so as I say I have had great results

He is a perfect point sink/target. I can do better with a cav unit.

I'm sorry but with a 3+ save 4+ invul BASE while giving the unit he's in preferred enemy BASE is fucking amazing. Since we are going on stories how about When I ran a wolfpriest with 15 bloodclaws and laughed as they stomped two 30 man gaunt squads in two turns of combat then the wolfpriest broke off to take down a carnifex. So TWC Lords are good but as I said imho wolfpriests would hurt them.

Considering you have a unit that is worth, at least, 575 points that can be taken down by a few well placed shots acting as a deathstar, which in itself aint the most competitive option, is eh at best. I would much have my wolf lord with 3 cav tooled out running with a LOS block than a giant tank running down the field screaming "blow me the fuck up now!" That and if someone is running a frex they are doing something wrong, IMO.

So wait JotWW is situational when no matter it hits and MEQ need a 4+ down to live while most units need 3+ or lower to live. While LL you get d6 shots X amount hit then X amount wound. the way I look at it, it seems that they are equally situational

But I can take down multiple troop units with it and pop light transports with my LL.

 

[hippypancake]

He is a perfect point sink/target. I can do better with a cav unit.

He isn't a indi character its not like you can one hit him from across the table

Considering you have a unit that is worth, at least, 575 points that can be taken down by a few well placed shots acting as a deathstar,

What are you talking about? that was just base model units I gave them both 0 upgrades, they were meant to tie up elite units but in the end they beat the shit out of half the army, oh and I can take units out of unit-consistency with ease

which in itself aint the most competitive option, is eh at best. I would much have my wolf lord with 3 cav tooled out running with a LOS block than a giant tank running down the field screaming "blow me the fuck up now!" That and if someone is running a frex they are doing something wrong, IMO.

didn't even understand any of this

But I can take down multiple troop units with it and pop light transports with my LL.

And I can take down soupped up characters that are worth the same amount of points as the units the LL take multiple turns to take down as well

 

[gen.ahab]

He isn't a indi character its not like you can one hit him from across the table

It is a small unit that can be easily targeted with long range heavy firepower.

What are you talking about? that was just base model units I gave them both 0 upgrades, they were meant to tie up elite units but in the end they beat the shit out of half the army, oh and I can take units out of unit-consistency with ease

That is the base unit.... I would assume you are smart enough to put it in a transport.

didn't even understand any of this

Because I forgot the word 'rather' in it.

And I can take down soupped up characters that are worth the same amount of points as the units the LL take multiple turns to take down as well

Poping a single transport means that unit takes long for it to get to me leaving me more time to shoot them. IF that HQ is in a tansport you are fucking until it is poped

 

[hippypancake]

It is a small unit that can be easily targeted with long range heavy firepower.

Or you could take a 9 man unit of GH and put him with them...in your god-transports xD

That is the base unit.... I would assume you are smart enough to put it in a transport.

wait hold on...fuck I labelled them blood claws, meant storm claws aka Jump pack

Poping a single transport means that unit takes long for it to get to me leaving me more time to shoot them. IF that HQ is in a tansport you are fucking until it is poped

Unless I have a lascann- oh wait look there's a squad of long fangs MEANT for killing tanks

why are we even arguing over this?

 

[gen.ahab]

Because you seem to be the only person I have ever seen who favors JOtWW over LL and it doesn't really make much sense from a competitive standpoint. And if I can save those LF shots for other threats and STILL use my LL to take down a transport I have more options.

You put arjac in q gh unit and now you have simply made him easier to kill for me. Arjac is meant to be used with a team of terms running down the field in a tank doing damage, don't like that tactics myself.

 

[hippypancake]

In my personal strategies it is more logical to take JotWW as I have plenty of anti-tank and anti-transport weaponry also I prefer MH to LL for the same reason grotz are termi killers who gives a fuck if you have a invul and everything when your taking max 18 wounds in one unit so I take a Runepriest with JotWW and MH and if I have the points for it a second with JotWW and LL

I don't know where you got those as a strategy as it isn't a strategy to begin with they are best used as counter-assault which is what I usually use him for

 

[gen.ahab]

I don't use it but that is the only way I have ever seen him used. Tbh most people I know think he is a waist aswell. Trueth is I can get more done with razorspam or twc spam.

And now you want to argue that MH is better than LL? Right..... Where did this come from? Anway, LL just gives you one more crack at it. I like to try and remove luck whenever I can and if I have another chance to take them down I will take that. My second RP in my razorspam list has jotww so we will just agree to differ on how to win.

Sorry to the op if we just jacked your list help... Seeing as how this really doesn't help all that much.

 

[hippypancake]

oops yeah sorry mate we should of agreed to disagree before high jacking your thread

 

[CLT40k]

Just a couple of thoughts...

Overall though, I don't see this list as being very competative... You're just trying to fit too much into the bucket... TWC Lord, Rune Priest, Arjac, WG, You just have too much stuff competing for too few points...

Consider this.. when the DP hits it's going to break something's face... Then next turn your opponent puts all available firepower into it and they'll go away... and you'll see 1/3 of your points go away.

What's left (TWC + 2 Razorbacks) will just get torrented off the board...

My advice would be to make your units cheaper so that you can take more and to pick a style and maximize it's effectiveness (ie, if you're gonna go TCW, then don't try to make a second DP Deathstar thingy...)

Also, HP... Did you really advocate Stormclaws? WTF?!?

Also also, JOTWW is a gimmick power.. sure it will drop that MC every once and a while... but LL is a lot more utilitarian...

 

[Crimzzen]

Thanks for the help everyone!

Here's what I'm thinking.

I'm keeping JoTWW and LL/MH on the rune priest. I should have explained a few things. In this tourney there are about 20 scenarios in which you play 6 of them. At least 2 of my 6 games involved needing to kill something specific on the board (a third party). My last game, I needed to kill an inquisitor who had a retinue of 10 models hidden behind an energy fence (gave him and his unit a 3+ cover save/2+ if my opponent put him to ground). You couldn't cross the fence unless you drove/walked over it and rolled a 6. In which the fence short circuited but you suffered 6 str 9 hits. There were at 6 missions like this in which something like Jaws would have been awesome.

The list isn't 100% WAAC, I do want certain models in there for modeling/painting purposes. I'm gonna go back to the drawing board and see if I can fit in another razorback unit.

 

[CLT40k]

Energy Fence / stupid tourney senarios = Fail

Unless you both have them... but if only one then it would be pretty much autowin for the guy who has one...

 

[Crimzzen]

Energy Fence / stupid tourney senarios = Fail

Unless you both have them... but if only one then it would be pretty much autowin for the guy who has one...

We both had objectives actually. I can honestly say that in all 6 games I played, not once did a scenario favor one army vastly more than the other. Additionally, the scenarios were available for months before the tourney for everyone to practice with - so there was really no excuse for being surprised.

I agree that scenario's can be frustrating but only if not done correctly. The fact is that 90% of the major tourneys include scenarios as well as secondary objectives so its usually best to plan for them - at least the Astro releases them far enough in advance that you can plan for them. In fact, they gave us a DVD at the tourney which contained all their scenarios this year. At the very least, it gets rid of players simply copy/pasting netlists as you need to plan for other objectives.

 

[Crimzzen]

New list posted on page 1.