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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I've been playing my Ultramarines on and off for a little over 2 years, however I've just started to play seriously in the past couple of months. I've been working on this 1500 point list, which can easily be converted to 2000 in a few weeks.

Here it goes:

HQ:
Captian
  • multi-melta
  • relic blade
  • melta bombs
  • 145 pts

Troops
Tac 1
  • flamer
  • missle
  • combi melta (seargent)
  • melta bombs
  • rhino (extra armour)
  • 235 pts

Tac 2
  • flamer
  • missle
  • combi melta (seargent)
  • power weapon
  • melta bomb
  • rhino (e.a)
  • 250 pts

Scouts
  • 4 snipers
  • 1 heavy bolter
  • Telion
  • 138 pts

Elites
Sternguard
  • 4 combi meltas
  • 1 combi flamer
  • razorback (e.a)
  • 205pts

Dreadnaught
(One of two builds which I will switch pending the army I play, both are equal pts value)
One has:
  • Assault/Plasma cannon
  • Heavy flamer
  • E.A
  • 145 pts

the other is:
  • Lascanon
  • Autocanon
  • 145 pts

Dreadnaught two
This second dread is interchangeable for a bike squad, again pending on which army I am playing, the bikes consist of three bikers, two melta guns a power fist and cost 140 pts.
The dread has:
  • multi melta
  • e.a
  • heavy flamer
  • 130 pts

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Siege Shield
e.a
145 pts

Predator
heavy bolters
hunter killer missle
80pts

To get to 2000 points I'm simply adding a squad of five termies for 200 points and a devastator squad with ten figures (weapons will be interchangeable, however I'll probably stick with 4 lascanons unless I'm playing orks or imperial guard)

Please give me some feedback before I buy more stuff! Thanks Gents and Lasses!
 

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Your list is a bit all over the place. I'd suggest focusing it a bit more toward the fire power side. I'd take out telion and remove extra armor from the rhinos in order to get another predator for more firepower. You'll want to put the sternguard in a rhino so they can use their special weapons and ammunition.
 

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HQ:
Captian
  • multi-melta
  • relic blade
  • melta bombs
  • 145 pts
Right so this guy is trouble seeing as he does not have access to a multi-melta last I checked. Do you mean a combi melta?

Looking at the points, yes a combi-weapon does line up here; I'm going to suggest dropping it and the meltabombs and suggest a storm shield in place of those points. Its not an extra melta shot, but your invulnerable save is increased.

Troops
Tac 1
  • flamer
  • missle
  • combi melta (seargent)
  • melta bombs
  • rhino (extra armour)
  • 235 pts
I'd suggest dropping the extra armour, meltabombs, and combi-melta in favour of getting this squad a meltagun and powerfist. The first is generally going to be more useful over the bombs, except against monoliths and land raiders, but how many do you fight that you aren't aiming lascannons at or ignoring for the most part?

Tac 2
  • flamer
  • missle
  • combi melta (seargent)
  • power weapon
  • melta bomb
  • rhino (e.a)
  • 250 pts
Overall like this squad, maybe consider dropping extra armour for points elsewhere, or upgrading the rhino to a razorback since your likely combat squadding.

Scouts
  • 4 snipers
  • 1 heavy bolter
  • Telion
  • 138 pts
This squad confuses me, they should be at 135, where are those extra points coming from? Did you buy a single camo-cloak or something? If you did, you have to buy cloaks for everyone in order to get any real use out of them. And between Telion and cloaks for your snipers, I would very much suggest the cloaks, getting more snipers in his place.

Elites
Sternguard
  • 4 combi meltas
  • 1 combi flamer
  • razorback (e.a)
  • 205pts
Interesting choice, maybe go with two flamers and three melta's instead of one and four.

Dreadnaught
(One of two builds which I will switch pending the army I play, both are equal pts value)
One has:
  • Assault/Plasma cannon
  • Heavy flamer
  • E.A
  • 145 pts
the other is:
  • Lascanon
  • Autocanon
  • 145 pts
If you go with the first, then I would suggest the plasmacannon and advise not taking the heavy flamer. Its a good option for when you get in close real fast, something a walking dred won't be doing.

If you take the second, long range setup, then I'd suggest a missile launcher over the autocannon.

Dreadnaught two
This second dread is interchangeable for a bike squad, again pending on which army I am playing, the bikes consist of three bikers, two melta guns a power fist and cost 140 pts.
The dread has:
  • multi melta
  • e.a
  • heavy flamer
  • 130 pts
If your taking a multi-melta, than I would very much advise a drop pod; you want this thing getting real close real fast, and walking is not the way. It does mean finding the points, and I would suggest by dropping extra armour from this and the other dred, that gives you almost all those points.

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Siege Shield
e.a
145 pts
Alright, adding up the points for everything I come to only 140, does this have dozar blades? Either way, I would suggest keeping the vindicator stock, maybe keep the extra armour but thats it. Its a decent choice, but only having one may be a bad thing as it will have big guns aimed at it pretty qucik, and it needs to get in close.

Maybe drop it in favour of an autocannon/lascannon pred with extra armour. It comes in at 135 with the extra armour, though not as good at killing infantry like that pie-plate shot.

Predator
heavy bolters
hunter killer missle
80pts
Points for this are wrong, heavy bolters alone put you at 85, the hunter killer is even more. I would suggest not even bothering with the hunter killer and just sticking to the autocannon/heavy bolters
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Great help guys! Sorry for the point totals, the scratch paper I was writing this on was looked like an Ork's term paper.

The HQ is supposed to have a melta gun, not a multi-melta, sorry for the confusion. The storm shield is a good idea. I'm not quite sure where to throw him, do you think in the Razorback with the Sternguards? Or should i drop a marine and put him in the fight with my tac squads?

I like the E.A on the rhino's as it turns those two's on damage tables into ones, so i can continue advancing so I may keep those, however the e.a on the vindicator does seem a little pointless, I'll likely drop that.

Perhaps I'll drop the snipers and get the extra vindicator, the only problem with that is in my two thousand list I won't be able to use my devastators as I'll have three heavy support choices. Though I'd be fine in 1500. Perhaps I could take another combat squad in a razorback instead.

I like the idea of the second dread in the drop pod as well.

Thanks very much guys!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Can the sternguard not use their special ammo when in a razorback? Or is it that you think I'll be inclined to leave them in there? Thanks for the post!
 

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I think your list lacks focus. What is it you want them to do well? Looks like you dig the sternguard, but you haven't built the list to support them....

Going through your options...

1. The pred isn't really a threat - it's just an autocannon. Put las sponsons on the side and it's becomes threatening.
2. You have so little long range threat, that your vindi will very quickly become a heavily armored carrage for a storm bolter (cause it's gonna get shot up by everything)
3. You're hurting yourself ponts wise by putting so many upgrades on stuff.
4. You need more firepower cause you'll get outshot pretty quickly.

In answer to your question above, the reazorback does not have any firepoints, so your sternguard will have to get out before they shoot something.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the great advice guys, after some thinking I've decided I want an army with a lot of firepower. I'm working on a new list as of now, which I'll try to post at some point this weekend. The core of the list will remain the same, however I'm going to get rid of the Dreads, bikes, and the autocannon predator and focus on firepower.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Alright so I modified my list a little bit, I've decided to keep the marines and HQ the same, the rest underwent some significant changes.

HQ:
Captian
multi-melta
relic blade
melta bombs
145 pts

Troops
Tac 1
flamer
multi melta
combi melta (seargent)
rhino
215 pts

Tac 2
flamer
missle
combi melta (seargent)
power fist
rhino (e.a)
250 pts

Scouts
10 snipers
1 heavy bolter
10 camo cloaks
138 pts

Elites
Sternguard
4 combi meltas
1 combi flamer
razorback (e.a)
205pts

Heavy Support

Vindicator X2
Siege Shield
250 pts

Devastators
8 troops
4 x lascannon
278


I'm leaving myself room to work with the devastator squad, though I will most likely keep the lascannons on them for most games I can always give them missile launchers or heavy bolters for mob-like foe. I've also considered transforming them into a five man squad and putting them in a rhino...but then i think it would just be cheaper to put an auto-las predator in instead. I've been playing with the Devastators for a few games and really like their versatility and range with the lascannons, the ten man squad makes them quite resilient to enemy fire as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The scouts also give me an additional scoring unit that is ten men strong rather than 5! bonus!
 

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Scouts
10 snipers
1 heavy bolter
10 camo cloaks
138 pts
Thats great and all, having the ten scouts to get yourself two more scoring objective holders but they are not 138 points. Five scouts with a heavy weapon and camo cloaks alone runs you 100 points, five more with cloaks is not an extra 38. The unit should actually be totaled at 180.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thats great and all, having the ten scouts to get yourself two more scoring objective holders but they are not 138 points. Five scouts with a heavy weapon and camo cloaks alone runs you 100 points, five more with cloaks is not an extra 38. The unit should actually be totaled at 180.
Tis'. I copy/pasted from the previous post to make the necessary adjustments, as such I forgot to tweak some details.
 

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i think you mean 'combi-melta' for your captain, he can't have a MM. i would find him a close combat team to join up with, as he is better served in cc than shooting with your sternguard squad. (which looks like that is the only place he can go right now) i would say command squad plus RZB to keep it cheaper, assault terms if you want - but you're not going to be able to afford a LR to transport them.

secondly, i think that LC on devestator squads are a huge waste of points. for a 10-man tactical squad to have one man take an LC saves 25 pts per LC. go with an LC on each of those squads and combat squad them for LC teams to camp in cover or on objectives at zap away at mech or whatever. taking them on devestators is an insane waste of points and a marine with an LC is still a vulnerable model.

to get abusive: think about taking Lysander or the MotF. scouts with camo cloaks and sniper rifles and another unit that can bolster defenses makes for a 2+ cover save in that ruin. so dirty.......
 

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i say missile launchers for the tac squads; saves points, and good vs. light tanks and medium and light infantry.

I also agree that the captain is best in utilized in close combat, though I don't like command squads either so I wouldn't run a Captain. I'm bent on Librarians (which would bolster your sternguard defenses) and that is definitely a bias.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Very sound advice stockholm,
Though I like taking the marines in the rhinos as it compliments my playing style. If I were to combat squad them for an objective match or against an army I must shoot, I would take the LC with the squad and give missile launchers to the DEV squad. Though as is, the Devastators are pretty devastating and with two vindicators on the table I would love for them to draw fire. 6 marines is a lot to kill in one turn.

Unfortunately, I can't take Lysander because I play Ultramarines. I would love his bolster defenses rule for my Devastators and Scouts however.

And yes, I did mean a combi-melta :). Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I was considering the Librarian, however I really like the Captian's 5 attacks with the relic blade at initiative 5.

Perhaps in a 2'000 point army, which I may stretch too soon I can include a Librarian.
 

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with a relic blade your captain is stuck at 3 attacks, 4 on the charge. check your codex, the relic blade disallows a model from getting any bonus attacks from weapons. but its worth it! i'm running the vulkan right now, who has a master crafted relic blade. the strength 6 power weapon is awesome, hitting at the captain's I5.

you can totally take Lysander, just say he is 3rd Company Captain Mikael Fabian who is Master of the Arsenal, after all. or say that he is 1st Company Captain Agemman. (did i mention i'm fluent in Ultramarines?) that is totally legit. hand build him out a commander and assault terminator box, as well as make some extra assault terms.. or buy the a metal lysander figure and file off all the fist logos and paint on some ultras. the MotF conversion is harder to do....

:)

i must second the librarian notion. i run one most of the time just to throw up null zone on my turns, or throw an avenger if i'm in good position. libby is an awesome HQ choice.
 

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Very sound advice stockholm,
Though I like taking the marines in the rhinos as it compliments my playing style. If I were to combat squad them for an objective match or against an army I must shoot, I would take the LC with the squad and give missile launchers to the DEV squad. Though as is, the Devastators are pretty devastating and with two vindicators on the table I would love for them to draw fire. 6 marines is a lot to kill in one turn.

Unfortunately, I can't take Lysander because I play Ultramarines. I would love his bolster defenses rule for my Devastators and Scouts however.

And yes, I did mean a combi-melta :). Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain.
Why not make your own model and make it a counts as? ;).

I would also suggest getting a Librarian, if you're going to Bolster your list to 2000pts then I would suggest running a Terminator Librarian, with 5 Terminators, and depending on what weapons you load the termis with, would affect the psychic abilities loadout.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
4 attacks, your right! (On the charge of course). I know its within the rules to take him, however I really enjoy the fluff around the game. I would feel dirty.

I've modeled my army after the fifth company stockholm, though that is a great idea, perhaps I can create a "play as" character with my own name and fluff. You really know your lore! Major props.

Def considering the librarian when I bump up to 2'000. Great advice guys! Spot on!
 
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