[equitypetey]

to be honest i have neglected my eldar as of late, not sure if it was because i started with them and didn't quite get their tactics or if weedy little space elf people fitted my style of play.

i was talking to someone recently who said i was being crazy and that eldar can play any way i wanted them to with the options i have, he asked what i like and i said i wanted to get away from the whole mech list idea and wanted a really assaulty army so we talked about a list that ran mostly scorps.

i haven't thought that much about it since but last night i played my eldar mech list and swapped out 10 banshees for 10 scorps with no upgrades. they absolutely ripped their way across the field, wrecking multiple transports and killing a fair amount, the volume of attacks was devastating (makes me want to look at orks) and with 3+ armour they didn't die in one round of shooting.

so i put this list to you to see what is thought of it

karandras

scorp exarch
claw
9x scorps

scorp exarch
claw, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

scorp exarch
claw, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

5 dire avengers

5 dire avengers

3x walker
stones, brightlance, starcannon

3x walker
stones, brightlance, starcannon

the idea is everything is scouting and infiltrating, the walkers will pop transports and the scorps will munch what's inside them, and i will just hide the avengers
the walkers may be divided in to 3 units of 2.

so let me know what you guys think and just so you guys know there is no hoard armies where i play, it's mainly mech meq

 

[JimbozGrapes]

to be honest i have neglected my eldar as of late, not sure if it was because i started with them and didn't quite get their tactics or if weedy little space elf people fitted my style of play.

i was talking to someone recently who said i was being crazy and that eldar can play any way i wanted them to with the options i have, he asked what i like and i said i wanted to get away from the whole mech list idea and wanted a really assaulty army so we talked about a list that ran mostly scorps.

i haven't thought that much about it since but last night i played my eldar mech list and swapped out 10 banshees for 10 scorps with no upgrades. they absolutely ripped their way across the field, wrecking multiple transports and killing a fair amount, the volume of attacks was devastating (makes me want to look at orks) and with 3+ armour they didn't die in one round of shooting.

so i put this list to you to see what is thought of it

karandras

Had to look him up, I will be honest, 8 powerfist attacks seems pretty good(on the charge), just have to make sure not to attack anything that negates your 2+ save, as he dosn't have an invuln.

scorp exarch
claw
9x scorps

scorp exarch
claw, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

scorp exarch
claw, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

5 dire avengers

5 dire avengers

2 groups of 5 dire avengers without transport just simply will not work in any objectives game. The only troupe that should not be 100% mobile is the rangers. I am a big fan of them. At 1500 you should be trying very hard to run at least 3 troupe choices, and they should be ones that can do well.

If you do want a minimum, then I would go with 1 group of 5 Rangers with Pathfinders, And one group of 5 dire avengers in a wave serpent and/or falcon. Wave serpent is probably more optimal though because it will be less points in the end, if you do want to minimize your troupes. You can give the serpent a cheap scatter laser or EML for crowd control, or some light-med tank shots.

Troupes are lame, but a much needed source of any successful list, considering 2/3 of the time you will absoulutly need them to win.

3x walker
stones, brightlance, starcannon

3x walker
stones, brightlance, starcannon

I think these two here are your biggest problem. These guys here can outflank, so you can start them right on your opponents edge of the table(on either the right or left hand side). That means you are going to be hitting side armor and rear armor a lot with these walkers.

Now i know you want them out asap, because you need to destroy tanks for your scorpions to get the juicy insides, but i would recommend splitting them into 3 groups of 2 (so you can get them on the table faster) , outflanking, and re-equipping all of them with scatter lasers. That will save you a whopping 150 points, and they will still be able to take down rear armor tanks. Plus now you have a lot of s6 shots, that can be used to thin tough herds before scorps take them down. This should give you enough points to redo the troops.

Stones isn't needed on walkers. They have a 36" range, and if you use them the way i said, they wont need to move to much. That will give you enough points for another scorp or some beef elsewhere.

With AV10, you have to remember that walkers should be treated as glass cannons, kill the crap out of something, then expect to be blown to pieces. With outflank, you will be at least getting the first part done

the idea is everything is scouting and infiltrating, the walkers will pop transports and the scorps will munch what's inside them, and i will just hide the avengers
the walkers may be divided in to 3 units of 2.

so let me know what you guys think and just so you guys know there is no hoard armies where i play, it's mainly mech meq

I am all for non-conventional, and I like the list, just those key things will cause you not to win any games. Mainly the troupes. You need need need troupes. You can not hope to table someone every game.

 

[Weirdboyz]

Troupe =/= Troop.

Troop's win games of 40k. Troupes go to dance-offs.

With regards to the list, I echo the previous statements. Here is my input:

Karandras, while a beast in CC, still suffers from being an over-priced HQ choice for what he delivers. You list would actually be better served by an Autarch or 2, since you are relying on reserve rolls for your out-flanking units to arrive with some semblance of order. Funny enough, you can get 2 cheap Autarchs for the price of Karandras. Keep the Autarch's with your DA's, and have some fun with turn 2 reserve rolls of 2+.

Drop a squad of Scorpions, and use the points to buy 2 cheap serpents for your DA's. Cheap serpent = Wave Serpent w/ Shuri-cannon. Stick the DA's inside them, and hide them as best you can until turn 4-5.

Your anti-tank is fairly weak. Yes, you have 6 brightlances on your War Walkers. However, Eldar are the one race that can field melta out the ying-yang. A list w/o Fire Dragons is a list that is ignoring one of the best units in the game.

Also, don't forget the possible destruction you can wreck with a well-timed and targeted Bladestorm from a well-developed Dire Avengers squad (Exarch w/ Dual Cats, Bladestorm, and 7-9 regular DA's). That can be anywhere from 26-32 strength 4 shots, most of which hit on 3+. Should be able to put a world of hurt on whatever you aim at. Troops don't always suck.

Just some thoughts to chew on.

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

so far on the right track...

personally i would drop Karandras and a unit of Scorps: take one Autarch, or even two, keep 'em cheap (fusion gun, mandi-blasters, and PW is about 100 pts.) if you're tactic is to outflank/infiltrate their ability to add to your Reserve rolls will be crucial.

if you take a single Autarch, i would put him on a bike and attach Jetbike unit (don't skimp, make it good sized) to contest last minute objectives.

DA on foot is bad. take Ranger/Pathfinders, take at least 7-10 per squad.

don't give your Scorps Claws: i've seen them get owned in melee because of the low initiative, Biting Blade all the way.

your anti-tank does indeed suck. i'd take ML, Chin cannons, or SL's on the War Walkers: Chin cannon is the cheapest option here, but the ML could be lethal against AV 12, and should go through AV 10 (most rear armors) like butter.

good hunting.

 

[equitypetey]

cheers for the pointers guys but not what i was looking for i know what you guys are saying and could say the same thing, it's more of a fun/theme list and was wondering how people thought it might do if it could pull off what i intend

the idea was to infiltrate pop all the mech i go against with the walkers and eat what's inside with the scorps not outflank although i do like the idea of double autarchs with outflanking scorps and walks which i had thought about anyway.

also i know about troops but i didn't really care for them for this list, also i am trying to stay away from transports for this list as i wanted something completely different from my other eldar list (generic mech list with all the type of things that are being recommended)

edit: reflecting about the outflank list i've written another to do just that and i like the look of it, i will post it up when i have the time to for some C&C

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Have you ever tried instead of one scorp squad go for a squad of harlies to hang with karandras.

With his infiltrate ability combined with the 4 S4 rending attacks on the charge that harlequins can achieve (they should have kisses as standard) and after wiping out enemy they can be moderately protected by enemy fire (shadowseer should also be taken). As an added bonus harlies also ignore difficult terrain so you could set up 12 inches out of site of enemies then pop out of cover for a first turn assault.

 

[Weirdboyz]

Karandras can't infiltrate a unit of Harlies, as Harlies are not Aspect Warriors. As such, they don't benefit from any Exarch powers.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Actually the shadowstrike allows A SQUAD to infiltrate as long as one member has the skill. Since Karandras has it the SQUAD CAN infiltrate.

You should try it one time-great on tau armies:victory:

 

[demonprince9000]

a phenix lord can only join a squad of his own aspect though. harlies are not striking scorpians therefore cannot be joined by karandras. at least thats how i read it.

looks like a very good army list to me. the troops are fragile but for simple killing games you can keep them out of trouble hidden away and they should be fine. doubt anyones going to go chasing them when you got all the scorps killing them. you cud swap them for rangers. slightly more expensive but they can give a bit of covering fire, maybe pinning a unit the scorps are about to charge ect without getting in the way because of longer range. and with that cover rule they can hide away with decent armour saves and won't be that easy to kill
for the walkers i would split them up into 3 squads of 2 then give the whole squad one weapon instead of both starcannon and BL. that way the squad is more focused. BL for heavy tanks and cannons for transports ect.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Actuallly phoenix lords are independant characters so they can join any squad. Their rules state they gift a squad a fearless rule IF attached to a squad of the same aspect so completely legal. It states that phoenix lords cannot join ASPECT squads that ARE NOT of THEIR OWN ASPECT. Try using phoenix lords and harlies some time-works great.

 

[equitypetey]

so here is the outflank list i thought up after the other day

Autarch
fusion gun, power weapon, jet bike
5x guardian jetbikes

Autarch
fusion gun, power weapon, jet bike
5x guardian jetbikes

scorp exarch
biting blade, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

scorp exarch
biting blade, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

scorp exarch
biting blade, shadowstrike, stalker
9x scorps

2x walker
brightlances

2x walker
scatter lasers

2x walker
scatter lasers

so this is the outflank list, the troops will be a bit more survivable and have the speed to grab those objectives. not sure on the autarch load out but i havn't thought about it very much.

i really like the look of this list and can imagine the play of it.
hopefully all should come in turn two, walkers blow transports with a few BL's to pop the heavier things. scorps munch the gooey insides and the jetbikes run about and stay out of sight till the time is right to objective grab.

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

i like it, though i'd change up he Autarch to have Mandi Blasters and a Laser Lance, it will make you that much nastier in CC.

drop the BLs on the Walkers and i'd spring for a small unit of Dragons in a Serpent. you're hurting for anti-tank.

it's a good themed list, and i like what you're attempting here.

good hunting.

 

[equitypetey]

you don't need to tell me about dragons i run them in my other lists they kick ass.

but i'm really trying to to stick to principles here, no transports and stick as much as i can to the theme of scorps n walks. it's also a point sink for a unit that potentially in with this list probably won't do any better then the BL's.

also everyone should know a single wave serpent with dragons inside and no other tanks to shoot at means it's going down, the dragons are walking and then dead before they even do anything.

also i thought about the mandiblasters and lance but A. it puts me over cost and B. do i really want to be in CC?

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

you don't need to tell me about dragons i run them in my other lists they kick ass.

Then you shouldn’t post a list and ask for advice, since you have such high tactical acumen. I don’t give a rat’s fart what you run, it’s your list.

If you can pull a win with this, good for you, but what’s your plan to crack armor? Two BL shots and two Fusion Guns? Do a simple search on the forum, even the meanest CC oriented lists have decent anti-armor. It’s a simple strategy to kill a transport so your CC specialists can get to the unit inside. Relying on your CC specialists to do both is a waste.

At least, I assumed you knew this.

also everyone should know a single wave serpent with dragons inside and no other tanks to shoot at means it's going down, the dragons are walking and then dead before they even do anything.

Everyone should also know that CC units that have a hard time cracking armor are going to fail.

also i thought about the mandiblasters and lance but A. it puts me over cost and B. do i really want to be in CC?

So why even give the Autarch a PW? At the end of it, he’s a just a regular Eldar, so when (not if) you get locked in melee you at least have an option to charge first and overwhelm your opponent with a S6 PW.

Meh, take what you like. It’s irrelevant to me.

 

[equitypetey]

don't really know why your getting agro but hey ho, just trying to converse with you not start an argument i asked you an actual set of questions it wasn't me being arrogant.

with two walkers with BL's makes it 4 BL shots so i thought that would be ok for the heavier armour plus the scatter lasers (as recommended) for a torrent of shots to hopefully rear armour.

 

[Weirdboyz]

Actuallly phoenix lords are independant characters so they can join any squad. Their rules state they gift a squad a fearless rule IF attached to a squad of the same aspect so completely legal. It states that phoenix lords cannot join ASPECT squads that ARE NOT of THEIR OWN ASPECT. Try using phoenix lords and harlies some time-works great.

Problem is only Aspect Warriors and Autarchs benefit from Exarch powers, which is what Phoenix Lords have. So while you can still stick Karandras with Harlies, they are not Aspect Warriors. As such, they can't infiltrate due to his Exarch powers.

You want a nice combo, Maugan Ra with a 5 man Harlie squad inc. a Death Jester and Shadowseer. Plenty of S6 shots that can shoot farther than the 'Seer's 2"-24" 'You can't see me' bubble. Points heavy as hell for what it offers, but still fun to use from time to time.

As for the OP`s Outflank list: All I can say is you lack some troop choices. Or is this a Planetstrike list...

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Actually RAW state that that exarch powers benefits the exarchs squad. Trust me I have used it in tournaments and it is completely legal. Karandras can let his infiltrate ability affect the harlequins as long as he deploys in their unit.

 

[Weirdboyz]

@SN: Pg. 21, Codex: Eldar.
"Exarch Powers: Note that Exarch powers can only ever affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs in the same squad as the Exarch using them.'

So no infiltrating Harlies, as they are not Aspect Warriors. Not really the place for this argument, but it peev's me off when people advocate list-building on misinterpreted rules.

Done de-railing the thread now. Sorry OP.

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

Weirdboyz is right, to be more off topic, and the FAQ backs him up.

it'd be awesome if it could happen: Asurmen Bladestorming with 20 Guardians...alas...

 

[oldman]

karandras

Had to look him up, I will be honest, 8 powerfist attacks seems pretty good(on the charge), just have to make sure not to attack anything that negates your 2+ save, as he dosn't have an invuln.

Maybe I'm missing something. Shouldn't it be 7 powerfist attacks? 4 base + 1 for the charge + 2 for "Scorpions Bite"