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Discussion Starter #1
So heres the deal I was deployed in Iraq off and on mostly on for about 2 years and spent the last 2 years finishing my college degree so I haven't touched this game for over 4 years now. Now that I'm going into OCS I have more free time. Also I only played about 5 games in what I think was 3rd edition. Any help to make my list better would be greatly appreciated. The place I play at is pretty diverse I think their is only one race not their which is Necrons so I'm shooting for a balanced army list with ultramarine rules.


HQ

SM Captain 158 (Army Total : 1465)
relic blade
Storm Bolter
jump pack

or

SM Chaplain 133 (Army Total : 143
storm bolter
jump pack

Troops

Tac Marines x10 160
flamer
missle launcher

Tac Marines x10 160
flamer
missle launcher

Tac Marines x10 160
flamer
missle launcher

Elites

Venerable Dreadnaught 175
Autocannon

Venerable Dreadnaught 175
Autocannon

Fast Attack
Assault Marines x9 197
Flamer
Sgt Power Weapon

Heavy Support

Predator 140 x2
twin linker lascannon
heavy bolter side sponsons
hunter killer missles
 

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I think you might be using an old codex...or your point cost on the tac squads are off by 10 points...a ten man tac squad with a flamer and a missile launcher should run 170 points

you may need some rhinos for the tac squads to ride in.

i would also drop the hunter killer missile on the predators.

For the dreadnoughts, i have had some success with them being regular dreads with two twinlinked autocannons.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
your right it is 170 I did my math wrong even on a calculator haha. I threw artificer armor on the captain because I have an extra 20 pts and I couldn't see what else to do. That is also why I threw melta bombs on him too

Total: 1500

HQ

SM Captain 178
relic blade
Storm Bolter
artificer amor
melta bombs
jump pack

Troops

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Elites

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Fast Attack
Assault Marines x9 197
Flamer
Sgt
Power Weapon


Heavy Support

Predator 130
twin linked lascannon
heavy bolter side sponsons

Predator 130
twin linked lascannon
heavy bolter side sponsons
 

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I would make the predator autocannon/lascannon sponsons. This set up is cheaper and a hundred times more efficient than the predators you have now.

Also your captain is running into special character territory, if you make the change to your tanks you could get shrike in there and he is pretty badass
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Ive got about 33 more pts to distribute for some upgrades any suggestions? This is updated off of posts on another forum and im liking the suggestions so far. I am also thinking about removing a predator for a whirlwind which would give me 53 more pts so suggestions both ways well help. Thanks. Im also thinking of replacing a dreadnought with an ironclad with a heavy flamer which would give me 13 and 33 pts respectively. (did this math in my head sorry if theirs a mistake)


Total: 1467

HQ

Kayvaan Shrike 195

Troops

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Tac Marines x10 205
flamer
missle launcher
rhino

Elites

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Fast Attack
Assault Marines x9 197
Flamer
Sgt
Power Weapon


Heavy Support

Predator 105
twin linked lascannon


Predator 105
twin linked lascannon
 

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decent list, you're adapting well.

the only advise i can think to give would be to drop one more assault marine to give your assault sgt. a PF.

beyond that, stay inside rhinos with your tact. squads as much as you can since they don't have PFs to contend with MCs or Walkers that could tie them up throughout the game.

good hunting.
 

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Couple of things...

Pred with TL las is just a more expensive Razorback. I would suggest running them as autocannon w/ las sponsons

Three tac squads is too many... you could reinvest those points somewhere else. Like two speeders or something, or another Pred and a razorback upgrade for one of your tac squads. (and then just combat squad your the tacs)

Also, you may want to think about switching your Assault boys to Vanguard vets so you can get the heroic intervention (which would add more flexability to the list... Shrike + Infiltrate + fleet is awesome if you go first.. but could leave you hanging of you go second... then you gotta hide him to keep him alive - Heroic Intervention gives you a DS option that's pretty nasty to deal with)
 

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Here's a Shrike list scaled to 1850 that illustrates what I'm talking about.

Shirke
10 Vanguard Vets (5 BP, CS, Melta bombs, 3 PW and SS, 1 Plasma Pistol Melta bomb, Sgt with Relic blade and Storm shield)
3 Rifleman Dreads
3 Autolas Predators
2 5 man tac squads in Razorbacks with TL Las or Las/plas
2 Scout squads with Sniper, Camo cloaks and ML

8 Ranged threats, 4 scoring units, and the big Shrike Rock

BTW - Semper Fi, I did 4 years in the Corps and I appreciate your service - you're doing the job nobody else wants to do...
 

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that's a complete re-write of what he posted; if he has those models than that's not a bad idea, but he may not have them (hence his current build).

Vanguard are OK, but IMO to expensive for the Heroic Intervention, not to mention the fact they scatter. if he were playing BA Vanguards, it would be worth it as IIRC they get Descent of Angels (1d6 scatter) AND Heroic Intervention.

i'd rather have 8 assault Marines on the table as opposed to 5 Vanguards with expensive wargear that can die as easily as a standard marine. IMO, he'd have to make serious changes to take a large Vanguard squad that would be effective.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
As for my list Im trying to balance it as much as possible the club im going to play at plays a 1500 list and its random who you play and like I said the only race thats typically not represented is necrons, so you have to keep all your options open. Also I have enough extra points to get a power fist on my assault sqaud without taking one out. Also by dropping one predator and replacing it with a whirlwind and dropping one assault marine I was able to afford two power fist for my tac squads. I was also curious on your guys opinions on the ironclad dreadnought? I have 63 extra points now and no idea what to do with it. Any ideas?

Total: 1437

HQ

Kayvaan Shrike 195

Troops

Tac Marines x10 305
flamer
missle launcher
Razorback Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist

Tac Marines x10 305
flamer
missle launcher
Razor back Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist


Elites

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Fast Attack

Assault Marines x9 197
Flamer
Sgt
Power Fist


Heavy Support

Whirlwind 85
 

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i personally do not like the Whirlwind if you are looking for large blast templates then i would run a vindicator with minimal up grades...its a fire magnet at 115 points...
 

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Whirlwinds are bad... They eat up a FoC slot that is better filled by a Predator. While it seems appealing to drop a Str5 template anywhere on the board, it's not nearly as good as it seems.

Also, your points are off - A full tac squad with Razorback and Sgt with PF should be 275 (I think - my basic loadout is a pw and meltabombs, and I think you can replace that w/ a PF for 5 points more - sorry don't have codex handy)

At this point, I *think* you have the points for another dread or pred and a Landspeeder Typhoon w/ Multi Melta... That would, IMO make this list pretty balanced... but check the points cause I'm at work and don't have access to the codex.

I'm sort of Meh on the ironclad... I think the points are better spent on another rifleman

Inquisitor Malaclypse - I think you missed my point.. the point was that you can get a hell of a lot more firepower into the list while still running Shrike and a Jumper Squad than what was initially posted.
 

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270. I think, per tac squad. So... Army List total @: 1277 (also, your assault squad is worth 207pts, not 197)

So, to fill the 223 points you have remaining, might I suggest you take a devastator squad with four missile launchers? Full squad, combat squad it into two-ML teams and deploy in opposite corners of your deployment area.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
alright ill sit down with an actual calculator and calculate it all out instead of in my head here in a bit. I got a suggestion on another board to put a vindacator in there instead of a whirlwind. just looking for an an opinion on that piece of equipment? and i also got suggested to drop shrike I was wondering if someone could give me a pro con on both of those models? Finally I'm wondering if a chaplain would be a better choice for my assault squad. I'm very indecisive on what I should do next suggestions could help.

Total: 1292 (208 off)

HQ

Kayvaan Shrike 195

Troops

Tac Marines x10 270
flamer
missle launcher
Razorback Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist

Tac Marines x10 270
flamer
missle launcher
Razor back Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist

Scout Squad 100
camo cloaks
ML
Sniper


Elites

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Fast Attack

Assault Marines x9 207
Flamer
Sgt
Power Fist


Heavy Support
 

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Whirlwind:
Basically, a Rhino with some decent front armor. Able to lob medium strength ordnance up to four feet, and it doesn't have to see its target to hit it (though I've heard there's something with speeders, where they "spot" for the shot, and reduces scatter... don't remember if it's apocalypse only or not).

Pro: Long range, able to hide fully behind cover, to prevent sniping.

Con: Weak ordnance. Str5 doesn't do much to armor, even with a direct hit.

Vindicator:
Once again, Rhino with good front armor. Can upgrade to have a siege shield, which prevents dangerous terrain from immobiling it. Lobs a high-powered cannon shell a short distance, and packs a whollop.

Pro: Can punch through any tank with one direct hit (or two at worst)

Con: 24" range means you have to get close. The siege shield comes in handy here, though, as you can wiggle through treacherous crap a predator or rhino can't, without risking their treads breaking.

I prefer two vindicators to two whirlwinds, any day. And if you could get two, huzzah, but if not. One will do better than a whirlwind. Just my opinion though.

EDIT: A single well-placed vindicator shell might do more to break up a terminator squad, but the pro of the whirlwind comes back with swarms of cheap infantry. You've got better distance against the 300+ guardsmen rushing you, as opposed to the 25 space marines.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
So thanks for the quick replies and thank you for the pro/con list Belthazor Aurellius. So just a couple more questions whats everyones opinion on shrike vs a chaplain or a captain with a relic blade? And has anyone thought about putting together a pro/con list for Space Marines and their units and what equipment you've found useful for each one?


Total: 1497

HQ

Kayvaan Shrike 195

Troops

Tac Marines x10 270
flamer
missle launcher
Razorback Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist

Tac Marines x10 270
flamer
missle launcher
Razor back Twinlinked Lascannon
Sgt Power Fist

Scout Squad 100
camo cloaks
ML
Sniper


Elites

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Dreadnought 125
twin linked Autocannon x2

Fast Attack

Assault Marines x9 212
Flamer
Sgt
Power Fist
melta bombs

Land Speeder X2 200
typhoon missile launcher
multi-melta
 

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Whirlwind:
(though I've heard there's something with speeders, where they "spot" for the shot, and reduces scatter... don't remember if it's apocalypse only or not).
It is Apoc only. Space Marine Suppression Force. Another pro for the Whirlwind is that you can swap out the top hatch cover and make it into a Rhino or Razor back quickly. Doesn't help in-game, but if you want to change up your army it comes in handy.
 

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Assuming you're gonna keep them as jumpers.....

For not too much points more, Shrike is giving you a first turn assault (infiltrate + regular move + fleet). The capt with relic blade is cool... The chappie is cool (and cheaper).... Really it comes down to how you'd use them and what you dig...

If the question is capt with relic blade or Libby == Then I pick Libby for psy defense
Capt with relic blade or Chappie == chappie gives rerolls... nuff said
 

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Maybe take a multimelta dread in a drop pod instead of one of the autocannon dreads? Drop that bad boy in next to a Leman Russ or Land Raider on your first turn and explode the enemies indestructo tank with 2D6 melta goodness. If it succeeds on the shot and survives their shooting phase, they have to choose whether to shoot it or the drop pod or your other boys.
 
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