[Skullcrushin]

Hi, Im fairly new to the eldar and am having some difficulty, especially against any marine opponant, the list below is what I currently use and would like to know what could be changed to help improve the army. Also Im trying to build this list up for 2000pt battles but dont know what to consider. Thanks in advance.

Eldrad - 210pts

Avatar - 155pts

10 Dire Avengers: Exarch, Power weapon and shimmershield, Bladestorm - 162pts

10 Dire Avengers: Exarch, Power weapon and shimmershield, Bladestorm - 162pts

10 Howling Banshees: Exarch, Executioner, War shout, Acrobatic - 192pts

Wave Serpent: Bright lances, Spirit stones, Star engines - 160pts

Wave Serpent: Bright lances, Spirit stones, Star engines - 160pts

Wave Serpent: Bright lances, Spirit stones, Star engines - 160pts

Wraithlord: Wraithsword, Star cannon - 130pts


Total - 1491pts

 

[Weirdboyz]

Personally, I would advise the following:

Drop the Avatar. He doesn't really fit well with mech lists, as he tends to get left behind. Plus, he becomes a very choice target to most mid/long ranged fire power, and will likely die pretty quick.

I would lose the wraithlord as well. You only have one psyker in the list, so you really run the risk of having wraithsight bite you. If you keep him, upgrade that starcannon to a brightlance.

If you drop the Avatar & wraithlord, that leaves you with a little less than 300 points to play with. I would advise getting a small (5-6) fire dragon squad in a cheap Serpent (shurri-cannon & spirit stones, nothing else). The melta-fire is nice, and a little more reliable at popping AV14 than Brightlances, especially since those transports will spend 1/2 the game turbo-boosting instead of shooting.

You should have enough points left for a Farseer with Guide or Doom, someone to ride around with one of the DA squads to boost the effectiveness of their Bladestorm (guide to get more hits, Doom to get more wounds. Both are ideal, but I don't have my codex on me and can't remember the point costs). That is working on the assumption that Eldrad is riding with the Banshees. If not, a Doomseer for the Banshees is a good, cheap option.

Hope this helps.

 

[Skullcrushin]

Thanks for the advice.

Also how useful are close combat units in mech armies, I dont get too many good chances to use my banshees in the games Ive played so far. I also have doubts about the star engines, are they really worth it?

 

[Weirdboyz]

The value of Star engines is debatable. Sure you can move around 36" a turn, but some might say that isn't necessary. In my opinion, I wouldn't put them on everything. Maybe just on Serpents that will be getting close to the enemy do deliver a CC squad or melta-death. Maybe.

The problem with the CC units is that our transports are not open-topped, so we can't move them and assault out. Despite that, I always include at least one CC unit in my lists. Usually I run with Scorpions, seeing as how my Banshee's never seem to make it to combat (With Scorpions on board, my Wave Serpents may as well be land-raiders. With Banshee's, they may as well be Rhinos). As a well timed charge against the proper target can be devastating, so I usually keep one melee squad in a list just to cover that base. However, it is entirely up to your preference and play-style.

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

Good advice by Weirdboyz. I'd also change Bladestorm to Defend. That will make your DA more durable if you have to engage in melee.

good hunting.

 

[mrtoby]

Hey there

As already said, I would be keen to drop the Avatar, and perhaps swap him out for some warlocks to back up Eldrad. Eldrad can do some discusting things if given the oppurtunity, but you will struggle to get him into the right places if you are moving him about on his own or leaving him to oversee a defencive unit.

Wraithlords are wonderful, but if you want to make the most of them you really need more than one. So perhaps drop him for the time being and invest in some more aspect warriors. I would go with dragons. People say they are only good with tanks, but they will melt their way through a squad of space marines faster than anything else in your list! Plus if your up against a land raider a couple of bright lance shots isnt always going to cut it.

Also, one thing that stood out to me is that you have three wave serpants. people may disagree with me on this but, i think three is a luxury, not a necesssity.
If you really need to get troups into the field you can always drop of what you've got and then go back for more!
My thoughts are leave out one wave serpent and trade for maybe... some dark reapers!? two w/serpents will easily do the job and even a small squad of reapers will up your heavy fire more than you will expect. And again reapers make easy work of space marine squads. You have quite a 'mobile' army, having an anchor of fire power at the back of the table will feel good.

can't help you with banshees and scorpians im afraid, this questions really does depends on you and your play style, give it time, experiment and the answer will come! ...sorry

as for star engines... if you can afford them with what points you have left then do it, but they wont exactly be battle turning items.

I hope that's helpful. general thoughts are too many troop choices to be taking on space marines. 20 dire avengers may look pretty fierce but wont last long against a S/Marine unit even half it's size.

Thanks,
Toby

 

[Skullcrushin]

Thanks for the advice

 

[Skullcrushin]

Just one last question, would a unit of wraithguard be a valid option?

 

[Grinnsira]

You could use Wraithguard. I run mine with a lock and Yriel in a WS. I moved, unloaded, shot. T6 and conceal saved the incoming shots. Yriel detached and ran toward a group, the guard moved and shot the hell out of a squad. Yriel assaulted, They concolidated, He blasted, 2 lived. I lost like 2 guard overall. Its an option. They will live and do some damage or they will suck up enemy fire.

I ran the banshees in a serpent behind the wraithguard and they broke left to hit another unit. Run your WS in pairs. I take one that was unable to shoot and moved flat out 24" and tuck the other one up right in behind them. When your WS moves toward the enemy get close. the next turn if you are close enough, disembark 2" move 6" run 1-6", assault 6" = 15 - 20". The biggest thing is to rush the 2 ws forward and have the banshees tucked in behind the other WS for cover. If you can hit move than one unit do so to stay in combat. Especially if they are not assault oriented units.

I would drop the Wraithsword and go with BL and EML and get a Fire Prism to replace the Avatar

 

[Weirdboyz]

Just one last question, would a unit of wraithguard be a valid option?

Wraithguard are a fairly hot button topic with eldar players (especially here on Heresy.) For a truly competitive list, I would say no. Lets look at some pros/cons:

Pros:
- Their gun is an armor ignoring witchblade (2+ to wound, AP2). A 6 causes insta-death (can be useful against MC's, or solo characters (refer to Mephistron). Also ignores AV values for determining armor pen., which makes it a decent AV14 killer (especially against the monolith).
- They are T6 with a 3+ save. Makes small arms fire (i.e., bolters) not too much of a threat.
-They are Fearless. They won't run.
- Can take a warlock squad leader to provide some unit boosts (cover save, +WS & Init., or consider Destructor for some Horde protection).

Cons:
- They take up 2 spaces in a wave serpent, so any unit with a transport is going to be pretty small.
- They have no invulnerable save. Most anti-tank weapons will still wound them on a 2+ and they will have to rely on a cover save.
- Wraithsight: If they lose their warlock, they have the danger of sitting around doing nothing.
- Gun range is only 12", so you usually only get 1 shot before they get tied into CC by whatever falls out of the Land raider.
- 1 CC attack, with WS4, means they will not be winning many combats.
- Model Cost: 20$ (Canadian) per model is ridiculous, especially for such a ho-hum unit. There are better choices that are easier on your wallet.

In general, the pros are out-weighed by the cons of any size of wraithguard unit. They can be useful for a 'shock-and-awe' bullet sponge unit, but there are ultimately better choices.

 

[Xinofos]

I would drop the Wraithsword and go with BL and EML and get a Fire Prism to replace the Avatar

Disargee with BL, even with a fire prism added, theres a lack of mid-long ant troop weapons. Better off with EML and SC(with duel flamers of course ).

I haven't got my codex with me, but dropping Eldrad and probbaly a few upgrade and get 2 farseers with stones, doom and guide could be an interseting option.

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

good points again by Weirdboyz, but i like Wraith Guard.

they're very durable and don't die as easily as Fire Dragons.

frankly, your list seems to like being fast. while the Avatar (Eldrad by himself is fine as and HQ, IMO) and the Wraithlord are not bad ideas, you could replace them with something else, like Fire Prisms, a couple of War Walker or a unit of Jetbikes for that third scoring unit.

Eldar seem to flow better when your list overall can move at the same speed. i field 2 10 man units of WG at 1500 sometimes, and have beaten Black Templars and Chaos Daemon with the same army.

but when you take that many WG, you have to concede the fact you'll be plodding along all game long, and hug cover HARD.

good hunting.