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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Inspired by the Hellcult formation, i give you this mad assault list. Also, a Chaos marines list, with actual Marines! That's AMAZING!!!

-Hellcult Formation-

30 Cultists
35 Cultists

Helbrute w/ reaper autocannon

(285)

-Crimson Slaughter CAD- (free fear, yay)

Chaos Lord, Sigils of corruption, Daemonheart, MoK, Fisticlaw (170)

9 Marines,Ccw + pistols, MoK, meltagun, Lightning claw, meltabombs, Icon of Wrath (195)

Land Raider, dirge caster, dozerblade (240)

5 Marines
meltagun
meltabombs
Rhino, dirgecaster
(130)

5 Marines
meltagun
meltabombs
Rhino, dirgecaster
(130)

2 Maulerfiend
(250)

So, lots of armour, a small horde to boot and some nasty assaulters.

Marines in rhino should work with the cultists and Helbrute, while Maulerfiends and Landraider with Lord and Retinue crush some fools.
 

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Sure have some nice cultist bubble-wrap to keep the Land Raider safe from DSing melta and the like, and which will be capable of tarpitting Knights or Wraiths (or, for that matter, Wraithknights) quite effectively, given their numbers and Fearlessness. And, honestly, whittling down anything they can kill through sheer number of attacks. I'd try to find them the 30 points that would be 6 flamers, for the Wall of Death on them or something, but... not too vital.

9 Marines, MoK, meltagun, power sword, meltabombs (175)
CCWs on these fellows rather than bolters, I assume? And I'd make an argument for a lightning claw on the Champ, given the number of attacks he should already have on the assault--rerolling to wound on those attacks would be more valuable than having one more attack. I'm fairly sure I crunched the numbers a few times on the forums some years back, and the more attacks you have (a la Rage, etc), the more the LC pulls ahead of the PS--when they start basically tied, against most enemies. Also the tougher the foe, the more the claw pulls ahead too.

I'd also argue for an Icon of Wrath. I know, I know, you're going to be hopping out of a Land Raider basically in the enemies' faces. But... what if you have to hop out a little further back, because they ran/Battle Focused away last turn? What if your Land Raider gets cracked early and you have to footslog up the board? And it's not only the turn you disembark from the Land Raider--it's also after you mop up the unit you assaulted that you have to line up a second assault, and a mobile opponent will have given your dedicated assaulters a wide berth, at this point. And then there's Furious Charge, so the rest of the squad besides the Lord can hurt Wraithknights on the assault/just generally have a scarier assault that stacks with Rage from the MoK. And then there's the +1 to combat resolution, meaning your craven enemies are more likely to break and flee.

It's an "eggs in one basket" issue, I suppose. You are already going to slaughter a weak unit in one phase, no issue, but you do run the danger of slaughtering a middling unit, more likely, with the upgrade (and/or causing them to run away), meaning enemy shooty phase happy. But... you will be able to stand up to tough enemy super-units that much better, so I would go for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Agree on the Lightning claw, made the change (i also have it modeled on the champion, so...)

Of course the 9 CSM have ccw+pistol, gotta write it.

About the icon, i'd remove 4 cultists, but i'm not happy. However, i'll give it a try and we'll see!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Soooo...run the list and got KRUMPED TO DEATH.
Basically the cultists where useless, due to a couple of well placed templates that crippled them just before they where assaulted by fucking MUTILATORS (who the hell even remembered those where a thing?) and got their own sorry ass handed over.
Small Marines units got slaughtered by a bazillion of Spawns ( 2 units of 5 nurgle spawns...). Lord + khornate marines encountered 20 Slaaneshi Marines with banner + Huron and..well... they fucking died horribly and screaming. Maulerfiends did the heavy lifting and was the sole thing alive at the end. Also landraider was alive but it did absolutely nothing. Wasted points. Also, the Helbrute was careened into oblivion by said MUTILATORS (hatehatehate mongo-lators).
Bad dice rolling on my part and i also admit I poorly chose my fights... Think the problem was i splitted my force in three different branches that where easily outmanouvered by fast bikers and spawns, plus outflanking huron and marines and infiltratin' gangsta mutilators... My army, in the fluff, fell in to a majestic bait and their bloodlust was used against them, making them fight piecemeal against many enemy units.
Still, lost something like 17 - 8
OUCH
 

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Mutilators?! Pmsl - you must've fought the one guy who bought them :grin:

I like the list - the only thing I'm not keen on is the autocannon on the helbrute. I'd try for either a tl lascannon or a multi melta. 2 st 7 shots annoys light vehicles but 3+ troops aren't bothered and and anything with a 2+ doesn't care.
St8 or 9 with a high enough ap can *sometimes* make its points back in one shot. And it makes the helbrute a unit to be wary of for your opponent so you might even tempt him to waste shooting on it. But...thats my preference anyway and I'm biased - apart from one unlucky stormraven my autocannons have never killed anything :angry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
what annoys me most is that mutilators basically cleaned a table quarters almost by themselves... i shall use them...
Honestly i actually modeled a TL lascannon the dread...so it might be cool to use that. it seems bad , to me, to spend 25 pts on that pile of crap...the brute, i mean...but it would be really good to pop AV 12
 

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what annoys me most is that mutilators basically cleaned a table quarters almost by themselves... i shall use them...
So considering how badly mutilators have been maligned how were they do successful against you? Did you play poorly, did your opponent do something remarkable, was it all "the dice", or has something changed in 7th to make them more useful?

I know the models suck, but I thought the rules were about as bad. No?
 

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what annoys me most is that mutilators basically cleaned a table quarters almost by themselves... i shall use them...
Honestly i actually modeled a TL lascannon the dread...so it might be cool to use that. it seems bad , to me, to spend 25 pts on that pile of crap...the brute, i mean...but it would be really good to pop AV 12
I look at it as a bet - do I think a 25pt lascannon will kill more than its point cost in six shots? (avg game length)
I've one shotted a land raider on turn one before :)

And sometimes things die to sternguard in pods before they ever shoot.
I just prefer big guns :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I look at it as a bet - do I think a 25pt lascannon will kill more than its point cost in six shots? (avg game length)
I've one shotted a land raider on turn one before
That happened to me either, but as the receiving end :( :laugh:
The real question is: will he be able to shoot 6 times? Average life of an helbrute is 3 turns in my experience or whole game if rendered useless (like weapon destroyed, out of range, ignored etc) But i can see that at least he has something to say, if alive. A lascannon zapping around is always trouble.

So considering how badly mutilators have been maligned how were they do successful against you? Did you play poorly, did your opponent do something remarkable, was it all "the dice", or has something changed in 7th to make them more useful?

I know the models suck, but I thought the rules were about as bad. No?
They where a trio of Khorne Mutilators. They infiltrated out of LoS behind my cultists and helbrute on right flank. I was advancing with one unit of cultist, while the other bubblewrapped the brute. I ignored them in first turn (overconfident), second turn 2 obliterators DS near the bubblewrap cultists and flamed/ shot them to death (lucky scatters), almost halving the bubblewrap. The mongolators charged the brute, lost one to ID and then gakked it with 8 chainfists attacks on the charge.
Then, i moved the surviving cultists behind cover and shot the mutilators, but 2+ saved it all ( i hoped to slow its charge and strike first due to lack of assault grenades on the mongolators). That was a mistake i should have assaulted them. Then moved BACK the other unit in support, like an idiot. This way 3rd turn, obliterators and mutilators moved toward the second incoming unit. Oblits flamed and assaultcannoned the crippled unit in cover, pratically neutering them, while the two mutilators switched to twin lightning claws and charged the 30 man unit. And there they stayed until the next turn, killing 18 cultists and taking just 1 wound in the following three melee rounds (hitting on 4, wounding on 5, saving on 2+, it was hard to even scratch them). At that point i conceded having just a handful of doomed models and having scored badly.
SO, yes, i let them take me one unit at a time, i cowered when it was time to assault and tried to assault when it was time to retreat a few inches to attemp an assault the next turn.
However, mutilators are NOT so bad. Infiltrating them is the way to go, possibly behind some LoS blocking terrain to prevent shooting and then charging them into units with Ap - weapons.
 

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The main prob with mutilators is they are often seen as the weaker and more costly version of CSM Termys. The Daemonkin book I found a bit strange as it didn't even have them as an army list entry. I personally think that a half possessed Termy with melee weapons would have just been the termy equal of possessed. Though maybe they saw them as a lost cause and didn't put in as they would need a revamp first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just wrote a small tactica about the poor Mutilator :biggrin:
And it's not true they are overcosetd terminators! For what they offer, they are cheaper!
 

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You get more ablative wounds in a Land raider if you take mutilators rather than terminators.
I still just can't get past the models...bleh.

Has anyone seen any good conversions for them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Agree with @Uveron, altough you might want to rebase the centurion to fit the smaller 40mm mutilator base.
 
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