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Not sure if you have the points but MOK, would make them 3 attack units on the first turn of CC (4 on the assault). They become a great unit to hold an objective lots of overwatch shots (In 3D3 flamer hits) and then 31 CC attacks. Should be able to melt most Ork mobs.
You seem to be forgetting the loveable Counter-Attack that MoK gives. Either way, you get the +1 for charging or being charged, add 10 attacks to that one homie!
 

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Warsmith
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You seem to be forgetting the loveable Counter-Attack that MoK gives. Either way, you get the +1 for charging or being charged, add 10 attacks to that one homie!
Nope that's how they get the 3 when charged 4 when charge. 1 profile+1 for extra cc, +1 for Counter (or +2 for rage)
 

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Nope that's how they get the 3 when charged 4 when charge. 1 profile+1 for extra cc, +1 for Counter (or +2 for rage)
But doesn't rage give you +1 attack standard? Not just +1 (extra) on the charge?
 

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Iam just not sold on the Mayhem pack, its 300+ points invested in reserves. Sure its a cool thing to see them all appear on turn 2 and Melt, tanks to mush. But if they don't show up till turn 3, and then rage so they cannot shoot... that's 20% of your army just doing nothing. I would rather give the helbrutes autocannons and hide them at the back of the table and shoot up some light Armour.
They roll on movement phases, deepstriking in from reserves is the movement free pass. Still, Deepstriking without a beacon.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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But doesn't rage give you +1 attack standard? Not just +1 (extra) on the charge?
This is accurate. If you read the wording of Rage and Counter-Attack in the rulebook, it's pretty clear that you don't get the Rage bonus when charged.
 

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This is accurate. If you read the wording of Rage and Counter-Attack in the rulebook, it's pretty clear that you don't get the Rage bonus when charged.
Ah that's right. I couldn't remember. I haven't played a game in a few months and my rule book is with a mate.... I feel naked! And lost....
 

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Discussion Starter #27
MoK would be great...if i had the points :D
Also, 2 more oblits...yes, they could be worth it, but without MoN, they are less scary...or are they? Need to do 2 more, i think...to the painting station!!

About draznicht getting a melee weapon: why? if they get stuck in cc they are dead... 5 shooty meq, are not going to win to 20 ork boyz or to 20 guards...nor to 5 assault marines and so on. if they get charged, they are loss. better use those points differently, me thinks.
 

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Warsmith
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They roll on movement phases, deepstriking in from reserves is the movement free pass. Still, Deepstriking without a beacon.
Sure but even then you still have to deal with the whole reserves thing. I hate reserves with a passion and only use them in very very specific times, and with units I dont want on the table until I have removed the opponents counter to them.

Helbrutes just don't fall into the unit type that gets better by not being on the table, your going to be putting them in sub-optimal deployment spots because of the scatter and fear of mishaps, and I feel its going to be a 50/50 chance of even geting the melta next to the target you want.
 

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Warsmith
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MoK would be great...if i had the points :D
Also, 2 more oblits...yes, they could be worth it, but without MoN, they are less scary...or are they? Need to do 2 more, i think...to the painting station!!
A touch less scary, but not to much.. Good luck with the painting!

About draznicht getting a melee weapon: why? if they get stuck in cc they are dead... 5 shooty meq, are not going to win to 20 ork boyz or to 20 guards...nor to 5 assault marines and so on. if they get charged, they are loss. better use those points differently, me thinks.
Chosen are not that bad, or at least in my book. This is my math hammer against 20 Guards. Overwatch kills about 1.8, Draznicht in Chalanage kills about 1.6, The rest of the squad kills 9.56. So that's a about 12.45 all said and done, they kill 0.8 marines. With a minus -10 LD they have a 0.0833 chance of not fleeing and then a +1 chance of wiping the unit out.

Against 5 assault marines, it works out just as well, they kill 5.58 thought CC and overwatch, to take 0.3 wounds back.

SO no they are not assault specialists. But with 3 attacks each and the re-rolls Draznicht puts out they can do some dammage, give him a better weapon so he can increase the amount of death he can put out, and add in a HQ for additional support, you have quite the powerhouse of a unit.
 

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Warsmith
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Hence why Berzerkers fell off the map this edition.
Well that and they are overpiced, for 1 point more you can get a Chosen with MOK that has +1 base attacks and a boltgun. (Yes they are not fearless and get furious charge, but with no charging from transports the bolters and overwatch is a better bet)

Or at least that's my view of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
A touch less scary, but not to much.. Good luck with the painting!



Chosen are not that bad, or at least in my book. This is my math hammer against 20 Guards. Overwatch kills about 1.8, Draznicht in Chalanage kills about 1.6, The rest of the squad kills 9.56. So that's a about 12.45 all said and done, they kill 0.8 marines. With a minus -10 LD they have a 0.0833 chance of not fleeing and then a +1 chance of wiping the unit out.

Against 5 assault marines, it works out just as well, they kill 5.58 thought CC and overwatch, to take 0.3 wounds back.

SO no they are not assault specialists. But with 3 attacks each and the re-rolls Draznicht puts out they can do some dammage, give him a better weapon so he can increase the amount of death he can put out, and add in a HQ for additional support, you have quite the powerhouse of a unit.
mmh, why , i forgot preferred enemy was active in melee too...not bad. Still need to find 15 pts for a power-something. maybe drop a plasmagun for a power sword/maul?
 

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Warsmith
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mmh, why , i forgot preferred enemy was active in melee too...not bad. Still need to find 15 pts for a power-something. maybe drop a plasmagun for a power sword/maul?
Perhaps the 6th Havoc? Also perhaps just look at getting a chainaxe? Its 8pts and will give you the AP 4 which the maul will, and against anyone but the Smurfs it will take away their saves. That also gives you 5 points for a meltabomb somewhere on the list.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Perhaps the 6th Havoc? Also perhaps just look at getting a chainaxe? Its 8pts and will give you the AP 4 which the maul will, and against anyone but the Smurfs it will take away their saves. That also gives you 5 points for a meltabomb somewhere on the list.
Eh, might work! Thanks!
BTW, tonight i tried the second list: vs space marines (won 7-5, almost tabling him) and vs imperial guard (8-3, but it was close call until the 5 th turn).
Not bad at all, also i learned tha my friends are not prepared to face too many 2+guys. Lots of ap3 but no vp2...

Thanks to everyone! (and rep around for some nice hints!)
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Eh, might work! Thanks!
BTW, tonight i tried the second list: vs space marines (won 7-5, almost tabling him) and vs imperial guard (8-3, but it was close call until the 5 th turn).
Not bad at all, also i learned tha my friends are not prepared to face too many 2+guys. Lots of ap3 but no vp2...

Thanks to everyone! (and rep around for some nice hints!)
Well done! Ah, to be against an army that doesn't have AP2, rending, and/or monstrous creatures everywhere... (my roommates have Eldar and 'Nids)
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Well done! Ah, to be against an army that doesn't have AP2, rending, and/or monstrous creatures everywhere... (my roommates have Eldar and 'Nids)
Thanks mossy, the Fickle Gods blessed me today, but who knows if today they will be as kind?
I guess next time they will change their lists a little, introducing some more ap 2 :p
Oh, well, i'll remove my terminators...
 

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TBH they were probably having their armies set up to fight everyone except yourself with a few 2+ saves then. Was the fights drawn randomly or did you know which person you face in what order before hand, or some kind of challenge system?
Would have been funny though if the other players were also reading your list on the forums and had planned against it on here :p
 

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Discussion Starter #38
TBH they were probably having their armies set up to fight everyone except yourself with a few 2+ saves then. Was the fights drawn randomly or did you know which person you face in what order before hand, or some kind of challenge system?
Would have been funny though if the other players were also reading your list on the forums and had planned against it on here :p
Eheh, not funny at all for me! I know they are not on heresy (though i proposed them more than once, they are not forum guys :p ). Also, yes, i think they expected me to bring a shitload of noise marines (my Slaanesh allegiance is well known) and foot horde, hence the abundance of Ap3 and pieplates of mayhem.
Actually we know beforehand who we where going to battle against, we have a map from planetary empires and battle each other accordingly to our army's movement.
Until now the only players that conquered a territory (winning the related battle) are the orks and me! But this was the first turn, so i guess we should still get confortable with our all-comers lists. It is not easy to tone a list properly to face a huge variety of threats. I figured out ,vs Imperial Guard, had he brought a couple tanks more instead of infantry blobs, i would have died horribly. And that is not good...next battle i think i'll be kicking ork asses...need to be the alpha nerd out there...
 
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