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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I've been off-and-on with 40k as of late, college keeping me busy as ever. However with graduation around the corner, I have a little bit more time to read through my codex and figure out what's worthwhile in this 7th edition book.

I'll put my thoughts for units at the bottom of this list, but here's my list:

HQ:
Warboss w/ Bike, Power Klaw, Lucky Stikk, Bosspole (140 pts)
Painboy (50 pts)

Troops:
10 Grots (35 pts)
10 Grots (35 pts)
30 Boyz w/ Nob [BP], Shootas, 3 Big Shootas (240 pts)

Elite:
15 Tankbustas w/ 3 Bomb Squigs (210 pts)

Fast Attack:
4 Deffkoptas w/ Rokkit Launchas, 1 Buzzsaw (145 pts)
9 Warbikes w/ Nob [PK + BP] (202 pts)

Heavy Support:
5 Mek Gunz w/ 4 Kannons, 1 Traktor Kannon, 5x Ammo Runt, 5x Extra Gretchin (132 pts)
Battlewagon w/ Kannon, 4 Rokkit Launchas, Grot Riggers, Reinforced Ram (155 pts)
10 Lootas (140 pts)

No Org:
Mek (15 pts)

General plan: Warboss goes with the Deffkoptas to Scout early and then the koptas act as a bullet sponge until I can get the Boss stuck in with something that needs to die. If the Deffkoptas live long enough, they'll look for the 3+ saves or light vehicles with their Rokkits and the Saw. Grots will sit on objectives and go to ground to ensure that I can hold it. Boyz will footslog their way into a midfield firing position, along with the Painboy to provide them a little extra survivability. Tankbustas and the lone Mek go into the Rocketwagon, popping out 20 Rokkits/turn as it rolls up the field while the Mek ensures it keeps on trudging along. The Warbikes make their way up behind the Koptas, but screening the Wagon to provide it cover and ensure that it doesn't take the brunt of the shooting and then act as support for the Warboss. Mek Gunz provide more Rokkits and the Traktor Kannon is there for when the fliers/Eldar skimmers show up. Lootas dakka whatever is left/backfield units like Devastators.

Alternate options: Drop the Mek and Painboy (and shave a few more points) for a Big Mek w/ KFF to go with the Boyz or a Big Mek w/ Fixer Upperz to go in the Battlewagon. I'd lean toward the Big Mek w/ KFF so that he can also provide a 5++ in the early stages of the game to more units. I wouldn't mind having a couple of Tankhammers in the Bustas but then I lose the Rokkits...and 20 Rokkits rolling across the board seems slightly more effective where shooting is still dominant.

I appreciate any and all thoughts on this list, most of the friends I play against field Heldrakes, Night/Doom Scythes, and Space Marine fliers (Stormraven/Stormwolf) which makes the Traktor Kannon a necessity. However I want to keep shooting as many Rokkits as possible, and don't want to waste shooting, so I don't want to cram many more than 1 or 2 in.
 

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I am not sure you can put the boss with the koptas because the boss does not have scout. He can join them once they come on the board but not before I remember correctly. I would just put the boss with the bikes in the first place. I would give the painboy a bike and have him ride with the boss.

I like to put Mad Doc Grotsnik in with a big 30 man unit of shootas. I makes them insanely tough to remove.

I would give the lone mek a rokkit as well to let himi join in on the rokkit fun when he has nothing to fix on the battlewagon.

Anyway just some of my thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
On pg 171 of the BRB for Scout: "...a unit containing at least one model with this special rule can redeploy." Since I'd be sticking the Boss with the Koptas at deployment, they would confer Scout to him, if I am reading it correctly. This gives him a nice 12" move right out the gate, with the Koptas to take wounds for him while everything else catches up. A Painboy on a bike would give them some extra survivability while they get into position.

I can see why you'd want Grotsnik, to have a big blob of 30 Fearless Shoota Boyz, but isn't it a bit excessive (at 160 pts) just to have that? The only other reason I'd take him is to act as a bullet sponge with a 4+ save, and at that point a Big Mek would be cheaper (although wouldn't give Fearless/FnP). Although I wouldn't have the durability of Grotsnik, his T5 would largely go to waste, and his incredible number of Power Klaw attacks wouldn't see much use while I'm actually shooting with the Boyz unless I threw them into combat (kind of defeating the point of having Shootas :p)
My hope is that the Boss/Koptas + Rokkitwagon would be scary enough that my opponent would have to choose one of those rather than worry about footslogging boyz firing potshots.
Additionally, I wouldn't be able to afford him without dropping the Boss + Painboy entirely, or including him in a higher point game. If I took this list to 1750 I could surely drop the Painboy for him + some other goodies.

On the topic of Painboys: Is it worth dropping the Buzzsaw from the Koptas for the bike? Since the point of the Koptas is bullet sponge with some slight anti-armor use. Since you make that point, I want to say yes, but the utility of the Buzzsaw on the Koptas makes sense to me.

Mek with a Rokkit would make sense, but I assume that when my opponent sees that Battlewagon cruising at him that he'll use a lot of his shooting just to try and cripple it so he wouldn't get to use it that often. And I'm not sure where to pull the 5 pts from except from Bomb Squigs (which are far more reliable). At that point I could drop the Mek + 2 Squigs for the Painboys bike, but again I'm losing utility for that.
 

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On pg 171 of the BRB for Scout: "...a unit containing at least one model with this special rule can redeploy." Since I'd be sticking the Boss with the Koptas at deployment, they would confer Scout to him, if I am reading it correctly. This gives him a nice 12" move right out the gate, with the Koptas to take wounds for him while everything else catches up. A Painboy on a bike would give them some extra survivability while they get into position.

I can see why you'd want Grotsnik, to have a big blob of 30 Fearless Shoota Boyz, but isn't it a bit excessive (at 160 pts) just to have that? The only other reason I'd take him is to act as a bullet sponge with a 4+ save, and at that point a Big Mek would be cheaper (although wouldn't give Fearless/FnP). Although I wouldn't have the durability of Grotsnik, his T5 would largely go to waste, and his incredible number of Power Klaw attacks wouldn't see much use while I'm actually shooting with the Boyz unless I threw them into combat (kind of defeating the point of having Shootas :p)
My hope is that the Boss/Koptas + Rokkitwagon would be scary enough that my opponent would have to choose one of those rather than worry about footslogging boyz firing potshots.
Additionally, I wouldn't be able to afford him without dropping the Boss + Painboy entirely, or including him in a higher point game. If I took this list to 1750 I could surely drop the Painboy for him + some other goodies.

On the topic of Painboys: Is it worth dropping the Buzzsaw from the Koptas for the bike? Since the point of the Koptas is bullet sponge with some slight anti-armor use. Since you make that point, I want to say yes, but the utility of the Buzzsaw on the Koptas makes sense to me.

Mek with a Rokkit would make sense, but I assume that when my opponent sees that Battlewagon cruising at him that he'll use a lot of his shooting just to try and cripple it so he wouldn't get to use it that often. And I'm not sure where to pull the 5 pts from except from Bomb Squigs (which are far more reliable). At that point I could drop the Mek + 2 Squigs for the Painboys bike, but again I'm losing utility for that.
I think I was mixing up scout and infiltrate any way.

Grotnik I like to use in in around 1850 points with 30 Ard boyz just to make it extra hard. Even though they have shootas they are good at assault as well and can really tear stuff up. Also in a game of relic just camp them on the relic and your opponent isn't going to get it away from them anytime soon.

As far as the deffkoptas it is up to you to leave or remove the buzz saw. I like to keep my screening units cheap since they are there to die no need to waste extra points on them but the choice is yours.

The battlewagon AV14 is a tough nut to crack so your mek may not be doing much repairing. You also have grot riggers to help out. For me to get the 5 points I would look at dropping extra grot crew on the kannons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think I was mixing up scout and infiltrate any way.

Grotnik I like to use in in around 1850 points with 30 Ard boyz just to make it extra hard. Even though they have shootas they are good at assault as well and can really tear stuff up. Also in a game of relic just camp them on the relic and your opponent isn't going to get it away from them anytime soon.

As far as the deffkoptas it is up to you to leave or remove the buzz saw. I like to keep my screening units cheap since they are there to die no need to waste extra points on them but the choice is yours.

The battlewagon AV14 is a tough nut to crack so your mek may not be doing much repairing. You also have grot riggers to help out. For me to get the 5 points I would look at dropping extra grot crew on the kannons.
So for Grostnik + 'Ard Boyz, do you run them with Shootas still? Because at that point I'd really like to use Grotsnik's PK and cutting 45 pts on guns in lieu of sluggas/choppas.

I'm definitely leaning towards dropping the buzzsaw for the painboy bike. Stick him with the Koptas and Warboss when they scout to make them extra tough on turn 1.

So with regards to the Mek, would it just make more sense to drop it entirely at that point? Sure, one extra Rokkit could help, but I could also just save the points and use it toward a couple more upgrades.
 

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So for Grostnik + 'Ard Boyz, do you run them with Shootas still? Because at that point I'd really like to use Grotsnik's PK and cutting 45 pts on guns in lieu of sluggas/choppas.

I'm definitely leaning towards dropping the buzzsaw for the painboy bike. Stick him with the Koptas and Warboss when they scout to make them extra tough on turn 1.

So with regards to the Mek, would it just make more sense to drop it entirely at that point? Sure, one extra Rokkit could help, but I could also just save the points and use it toward a couple more upgrades.
For grotsnik it depends on what I want his unit to do. If I want it to be a tough unit to camp on an object, I take shootas. If I want it be the hammer strike unit to punch my opponent in the face I take slugga/choppa. In either case I take the nob with pk and bp to one accept challenges or if grotsnik gets sniped from the unit he is there to take control. Plus having a unit with two pk's is wicked nasty.

I would get the painboy a bike and toss him with the warboss. :good:

For the mek, if the battlewagon was just carrying boyz I would drop him. Since it is carrying your only unit of tankbustas I would keep him just in case something hits it. He can keep them going. Another option would be split the tankbustas into two units and put them in gunwagons. They are a FW model and use FW rules so I don't know if your up to using them or your group will allow you to use them. Either way I would keep the mek for now since the battlewagon is carrying your best hard hitting unit.
 

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Just taking a glance at the your list I would call it a friendly game list and probably fun. My lists are usually limited to what I have available and the competitiveness of where I am playing. Not sure how those two factors influenced your list but I do have some thoughts for you. Hope they are helpful.

Deffkoptas are great units. and I have heard of people using them with a Warboss so he can take advantage of the hit and run special rule. A couple of things to remember though. Deffkoptas have a really low leadership and often a single casualty can force a leadership check and run them off the board. I typically use them as disruption units in units of 1-2. It is REALLY fun to pick off MEQ units (like insta killing Tau suits) with rokkits. Even MORE fun is using them to soak up overwatch or tie things up in combat. Again with Tau, I've used them to tie a Riptide up in combat for several turns and charge blobs of warriors so that other more dedicated combat units can charge after and not get shot up. Also, on objective camping. I say why not claim an objective with a REALLY fast 30 pt model as opportunity demands rather than camping something several hundred points on it. Buzzsaws really aren't that great. Sure they are AP 2, but will only hit at strength 7. Much less likely to kill most vehicles and can't insta kill anything above T 3. Also, you can't assault after using Scout.

You could try putting the Warboss with the warbikes and put the Painboy on a bike and put him in there too. That creates a REALLY tough unit to move due to rerolling 3+ jink saves with the lucky stick AND 5+ feel no pain. Plus, the warboss's strengths are more similar to the bikes than the koptas.

Battlewagons tend to blow up on me ALL the time. I like to take small units of Tankbustas in Trukks.

Tankbustas are amazing! Tank hammers are not that useful since they already have Tankbusta bombs (melta bombs). Tankbustas are actually really good anti air as well. Again, I like them in smaller units. I've had a unit of 5 assault and kill an Imperial Knight. A unit of 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk with squig bombs costs a little over 100, can easily get it's points back, and is not a big loss. Plus, for about the same points than the 15 Tankbustas in your battlewagon you could have 3 units of 5 w/ bomb squigs in Trukks. One melta touting marine in a drop pod can explode your battlewagon, which will kill probably at least 1/3 of the Tankbustas, then you either run off the board, get pinned, or loose even MORE to mob rule. Who cares if that Melta marine kills one Trukk and 5 Tankbustas? You've got 2 more! Target saturation is important.

Lootas are alright, though mine tend to die if not in cover. Tankbustas are you real anti-armor now. But definitely a useful unit.

Grotz are always useful for objectives, screening, and occasionally hilariously killing things they shouldn't be able to.

Boyz. Unless your boyz are made more durable somehow a 30 blob is not that hard to move. An opponent only needs to kill 8 to force a leadership check and that is not difficult. Then you either run or mob rule beat yourself up. Grotsnik is great for making them fearless AND giving them feel no pain. A pain boy would be cheaper option. Though, I would say 30 boyz footslogging it are not even very likely to reach objectives to sit on. Deffkoptas are much better at doing that. Grotz are much better at staying in the backfield and hiding on objectives than a very expensive mob of boyz. If I take shootas, they are in units of 10 with a big shoota. They march up and claim if needed, and occasionally add their fire or assault to help kill things.

Big guns. I was really excited about the Traktor Kanon at first but it has turned out to be just ok and I don't take it too much. In fact, unless its a small game I don't take big guns much at all. Useful, but being static really hurts. You've got great anti air with the Lootas and Tankbustas.

All just my opinion but hope it helps. I find that Orks work best when you give the opponent too many threatening targets to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just taking a glance at the your list I would call it a friendly game list and probably fun. My lists are usually limited to what I have available and the competitiveness of where I am playing. Not sure how those two factors influenced your list but I do have some thoughts for you. Hope they are helpful.

Deffkoptas are great units. and I have heard of people using them with a Warboss so he can take advantage of the hit and run special rule. A couple of things to remember though. Deffkoptas have a really low leadership and often a single casualty can force a leadership check and run them off the board. I typically use them as disruption units in units of 1-2. It is REALLY fun to pick off MEQ units (like insta killing Tau suits) with rokkits. Even MORE fun is using them to soak up overwatch or tie things up in combat. Again with Tau, I've used them to tie a Riptide up in combat for several turns and charge blobs of warriors so that other more dedicated combat units can charge after and not get shot up. Also, on objective camping. I say why not claim an objective with a REALLY fast 30 pt model as opportunity demands rather than camping something several hundred points on it. Buzzsaws really aren't that great. Sure they are AP 2, but will only hit at strength 7. Much less likely to kill most vehicles and can't insta kill anything above T 3. Also, you can't assault after using Scout.

You could try putting the Warboss with the warbikes and put the Painboy on a bike and put him in there too. That creates a REALLY tough unit to move due to rerolling 3+ jink saves with the lucky stick AND 5+ feel no pain. Plus, the warboss's strengths are more similar to the bikes than the koptas.

Battlewagons tend to blow up on me ALL the time. I like to take small units of Tankbustas in Trukks.

Tankbustas are amazing! Tank hammers are not that useful since they already have Tankbusta bombs (melta bombs). Tankbustas are actually really good anti air as well. Again, I like them in smaller units. I've had a unit of 5 assault and kill an Imperial Knight. A unit of 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk with squig bombs costs a little over 100, can easily get it's points back, and is not a big loss. Plus, for about the same points than the 15 Tankbustas in your battlewagon you could have 3 units of 5 w/ bomb squigs in Trukks. One melta touting marine in a drop pod can explode your battlewagon, which will kill probably at least 1/3 of the Tankbustas, then you either run off the board, get pinned, or loose even MORE to mob rule. Who cares if that Melta marine kills one Trukk and 5 Tankbustas? You've got 2 more! Target saturation is important.

Lootas are alright, though mine tend to die if not in cover. Tankbustas are you real anti-armor now. But definitely a useful unit.

Grotz are always useful for objectives, screening, and occasionally hilariously killing things they shouldn't be able to.

Boyz. Unless your boyz are made more durable somehow a 30 blob is not that hard to move. An opponent only needs to kill 8 to force a leadership check and that is not difficult. Then you either run or mob rule beat yourself up. Grotsnik is great for making them fearless AND giving them feel no pain. A pain boy would be cheaper option. Though, I would say 30 boyz footslogging it are not even very likely to reach objectives to sit on. Deffkoptas are much better at doing that. Grotz are much better at staying in the backfield and hiding on objectives than a very expensive mob of boyz. If I take shootas, they are in units of 10 with a big shoota. They march up and claim if needed, and occasionally add their fire or assault to help kill things.

Big guns. I was really excited about the Traktor Kanon at first but it has turned out to be just ok and I don't take it too much. In fact, unless its a small game I don't take big guns much at all. Useful, but being static really hurts. You've got great anti air with the Lootas and Tankbustas.

All just my opinion but hope it helps. I find that Orks work best when you give the opponent too many threatening targets to deal with.
1. I'm trying to come up with a list I can win with, but also enjoy. I don't play tournaments or competitive but I am sick of losing all the time with Orks. The best way to quit a hobby is to keep losing...

2. Warboss with the Deffkoptas solves the leadership problem and additionally a unit of 5 is only 150 pts, highly durable and requires 2 full Koptas to die before it forces the morale. Never thought about hit-and-run with them (since I usually keep them out of melee). All your examples are using Tau, which unfortunately I never play against. My primary opponent has been Eldar and their mobility is demoralizing for an Ork player. I know you can't assault on turn 1/after scout, but the likelihood of that whole unit (5 koptas + Warboss) being totally wiped off the board is unlikely. Not impossible, just unlikely.

3. Bikes and Bosses seems to be a good way to go. However, similar to you, I am limited by models at the moment. After college (when I've got a job to pay for this hobby) then more bikes will come, but I currently only have 5 bikes.

4. This unit was actually highly effective in my last game (Bustas + Wagon) and the only change I would consider is adding a KFF for a little bit more survivability. My one Wagon lasted all the way until turn 3 before I was forced to concede and it only lost 3 hull points (restored 1) over the game.

5. Trukks seem to crumble like paper...especially when I'm dealing with a weight of str 4-5 shooting from just outside of Rokkit range (Wave Serpents and Dire Avengers w/ Battle Focus) and having 3 units of 5 guys just footslogging doesn't seem very threatening. You advocate both target saturation and providing valuable targets, but 5 (essentially) Boyz is not scary.

6. Lootas are to cover my advance, and hopefully knock off a few wounds/hull points from units that I really want to assault. They've always been good to me, and I think are a great anti-flyer unit.

7. Don't have any grots currently (still on the list of things to get) and the current mob rule doesn't favor Boyz. Grots are going to be a must-have for me just so I can afford to drop points on more Bustas, Bikes and Lootas.

8. This is where I have the most issues with the current codex. Boyz are supposedly the staple of our army, and yet they are no better than Grots when it comes to screening, and die just as easily. Painboyz give them the ability to keep going, but mob rule and morale can still force them away while you lose the Painboy in the process. At least Grotsnik can keep them moving forward. I tried this blob (30 'ard boyz, shootas, Grotsnik) in my last game and it held its own, but was still very underwhelming.

9. On paper I love the Traktor Kannon, I think it's phenomenal and in contention for the best anti-air unit in the game. Nothing else can do what it does. However, having never used it in practice, I don't know. I feel like the Mek Gunz could be VERY good though, in any size list, because they provide cheap, long range, and semi-reliable shooting (to use a metaphor I heard "Mek Gunz provide a BS 3 sniper rifle in an army full of blunderbusses). This is mostly the Kannon, as the rest are very gimmicky to me
 

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TBH I like the look of your list, it's rounded and flexible and I think you'll have fun with it. A large blob of 30 shoota Boyz with a painboy is a tough, distracting unit. Coupled with bikes, koptas and a battle wagon of tankbustas, your opponents are going to have to make some tough target priority choices. The bikes, koptas and grots also give you flexibility with maelstrom.
 

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Good thoughts.

Though I would reconsider 5 Tankbustas not being scary. With their tankbusta bombs and tank hunter then 5 tankbustas are a serious threat to any armor in the game. A 5 man unit way under 100 points that can very realistically take down Imperial Knights by itself is awesome. They can also assault infantry to tie up in assault. If your opponent wastes a turn firing his wave serpents at them then oh well you've lost only a few points and you've got more coming. Of course it all depends on how you like to use your Tankbustas. Using them as one of your main shooting units is great and if that is the case then by all means take them in larger squads. And if it is a choice between one battlewagon and one trukk AND your opponent doesn't take a lot of high strength low AP weapons then take the battlewagon every time. I tend to take a bunch of low count units as suicide squads essentially who's job is to hunt down armor. Plus, you don't get cover saves in the assault.

Another thought on Lootas and Mek Gunz. I've found being static against really mobile armies like Eldar can be a pain. I've heard of putting a Mega Armored Big Mek with Lootas to give them slow and purposeful and tank wounds. Or you could put them on a sky shield landing pad for a 4++. If positioned well the traktor kanon could be really useful against the wave serpents. I think it also immobilizes skimmers.

Best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I actually really like the idea of using the Skyshield with Lootas, as it will provide a good vantage point and a nice cover save for them.

Sure, 5 Tankbustas have the capability of taking down a Knight. But you're hoping they even make it there. With the Elite slot being relatively open, spamming Trukkbustas is doable. But Trukks are extremely unreliable and the likelihood is that you'll lose their ride, the squad, or see 3 wrecked Trukks with pinned/crippled squads. 5 Boyz with Rokkits are not scary until they get within range. 95 pts for the unit is really cheap though, so I will definitely consider them.

With the prominence of AP4 and "cover denial" shooting that the Eldar have access to, I have started looking at either Painbiker or Mekbiker w/ KFF just to ensure that the Deffkoptas survive to deliver the Koptas and Bikerboss forward.
 

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I actually really like the idea of using the Skyshield with Lootas, as it will provide a good vantage point and a nice cover save for them.

Sure, 5 Tankbustas have the capability of taking down a Knight. But you're hoping they even make it there. With the Elite slot being relatively open, spamming Trukkbustas is doable. But Trukks are extremely unreliable and the likelihood is that you'll lose their ride, the squad, or see 3 wrecked Trukks with pinned/crippled squads. 5 Boyz with Rokkits are not scary until they get within range. 95 pts for the unit is really cheap though, so I will definitely consider them.

With the prominence of AP4 and "cover denial" shooting that the Eldar have access to, I have started looking at either Painbiker or Mekbiker w/ KFF just to ensure that the Deffkoptas survive to deliver the Koptas and Bikerboss forward.
Big Mek's with your biker/deffkopta blob is a great idea. If you have the points consider giving him the lucky stick as well (or the warboss) and putting him in front to reroll cover/invul saves. Works incredibly well when you have the cover save (and when you take Zhagsnark Da Rippa from forge world who makes bikes troops and gives skilled rider). Kinda risky with the KKF but might help.

Again, not knowing what you have to work with, I would not advocate taking just one unit of 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk. Take 3 or if you are using the ghazkul supplement take 5. It's a tactic that has to work in harmony with the rest of your army. Spamming multiple fast moving threat targets (like a bunch of tankbusta trukks and a bike/deffkopta blob) usually gives your opponent too many things to shoot at and something gets through. Turn 2 assaults with a Waaagh are really easy to get. I've found that I need to either take things that my opponent can't kill (like a bike blob or the Greentide formation) or spamming a mix of low point but effective units, or a combination of the 2, works best.
 
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