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Discussion Starter #1
I have quite a lot of experience against vanilla Marines. How much different are the Dark Angels?

I am tempted to try a list like this, which in my opinion would perform quite well against ordinary Marines.


HQ (220pts)

-Company Command Squad
3x Meltagun, Vox Caster
Chimera
Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Company Commander wit plasma pistol

-Primaris Psyker

Elites (105pts)

-Storm Trooper Squad
2x Meltagun , 4x Storm Trooper+Sergeant

Troops (760pts)

-Infantry Platoon 1

-Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Heavy Bolter

-Blob of 3 guardsmen squads with 3*flamer 1 commissar with plasma pistol and 1 vox caster.

-Platoon Command Squad
Lascannon
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol


-Veteran Squad 1
6x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun , Vox Caster
Chimera
Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad 2
6x Lasgun, 3x Plasma Gun, Vox Caster
Chimera (55pts)
Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Pistol

Fast Attack (140pts)

-Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support (275pts)

-Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter

-Basilisk
Heavy Flamer

Any opinions?
 

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Rattlehead
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6,741 Posts
I have quite a lot of experience against vanilla Marines. How much different are the Dark Angels?
Not very. They run more Terminators and Bikes, but that's about it.

-Company Command Squad
3x Meltagun, Vox Caster
Chimera
Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Company Commander wit plasma pistol

-Primaris Psyker
The Plasma Pistol is unnecessary, and you really should consider taking an Astropath in there for your Vendetta.

Elites (105pts)

-Storm Trooper Squad
2x Meltagun , 4x Storm Trooper+Sergeant
Unfortunately, Storm Troopers don't deliver. Veterans will do the job better, I'm afraid.

Troops (760pts)

-Infantry Platoon 1

-Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Heavy Bolter

-Blob of 3 guardsmen squads with 3*flamer 1 commissar with plasma pistol and 1 vox caster.

-Platoon Command Squad
Lascannon
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
Plasma Pistol on the Commissar is unneeded, and Heavy Bolters are pretty crap (especially against MEQs). Go with Autocannons instead. The Lascannon in the PCS is useless - it's only BS3, and lowers the squad's morale threshold to one casualty.

-Veteran Squad 1
6x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun , Vox Caster
Chimera
Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
I don't get the Vox, as these guys want to be wombling free around the countryside slagging tanks, but apart from that, go for it.

Veteran Squad 2
6x Lasgun, 3x Plasma Gun, Vox Caster
Chimera (55pts)
Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Equally good.

Fast Attack (140pts)

-Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters
Great, but I'd drop a Chimera and put the Plasma Veterans in here to save points and make the Vendetta even more efficient.

Heavy Support (275pts)

-Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter

-Basilisk
Heavy Flamer

Any opinions?
The Leman Russ needs a full complement of Heavy Bolters if you're taking it at all, and as the Basilisk is so unfortunate you might as well use the points from dropping a Chimera and the Plasma Pistol to upgrade it to the far better Manticore (yeah, it's AP4, but it ruins Space Marine's tanks like no tomorrow).

Midnight
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I guess you're right about bolters and MeQ. They still perform slightly better against them, than autocanon, but are inefficient against most vehicles, so I'll rather take the AC.

I do not understand, why people scorn so much basilisks. They have AP 3 and in most situations ignore cover, so IMO they're good against MeQ. I've already killed quite a lot Marines like that. I agree, that mantichores perform better against vehicles of course, but the point of this basilisk is to kill Marines not their vehicles.
I am not so keen about putting complementary bolters on a Leman Russ, because they would fire at BS1 and also I don't think that with an AV14 vehicle, I'll get a weapon destroyed many times.

Whether vets are better than stormtroopers is debatable. the great thing about stormtroopers is that they can drop right next to a vehicle and with the possibility to reroll their scatter dice, they are quite likely to be in range of 6 for their meltas to work properly, that can't always be said for veterans delivered by a Vendetta, who (if delivered by grav insertion) scatter and you even risk loosing your models if you're unfortunate enough. Also if the veterans do some suicidal undercover operations, so must the vendetta and so you risk to lose a lot more points for that suicide squad.

I've dropped one of the plasma pistols and a lascanon and bought an astropath instead. It personally seems to a bit waste for just one unit, but I'll give it a try. I'll keep my plasma vets in chimera however, because they have firing points.
 

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Rattlehead
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6,741 Posts
I guess you're right about bolters and MeQ. They still perform slightly better against them, than autocanon, but are inefficient against most vehicles, so I'll rather take the AC.
The Autocannon is indeed more effective against Rhinos and the general Marine AVs of 11 and 12.

I do not understand, why people scorn so much basilisks. They have AP 3 and in most situations ignore cover, so IMO they're good against MeQ. I've already killed quite a lot Marines like that. I agree, that mantichores perform better against vehicles of course, but the point of this basilisk is to kill Marines not their vehicles.
It's got a 36" minimum range, so you're pretty much always using it as a direct-fire gun. At this role it is far inferior to a basic Leman Russ and doesn't save enough points to be worth it.

I am not so keen about putting complementary bolters on a Leman Russ, because they would fire at BS1 and also I don't think that with an AV14 vehicle, I'll get a weapon destroyed many times.
See my Leman Russ Tactica for more details, but I think Heavy Bolter sponsons are still valuable, most especially if you've got allied Divination.

Whether vets are better than stormtroopers is debatable. the great thing about stormtroopers is that they can drop right next to a vehicle and with the possibility to reroll their scatter dice, they are quite likely to be in range of 6 for their meltas to work properly, that can't always be said for veterans delivered by a Vendetta, who (if delivered by grav insertion) scatter and you even risk loosing your models if you're unfortunate enough. Also if the veterans do some suicidal undercover operations, so must the vendetta and so you risk to lose a lot more points for that suicide squad.
However, the Storm Troopers are over 100pts, enter, kill a tank, and die. The Veterans score, have more models, and are cheaper for more Meltaguns. Marines just don't have that many high-AV threats that you need to employ suicide Melta to remove - in fact, Imperial Guard in general shouldn't need suicide Melta as they have such insane long-range anti-tank anyway (see Manticore).

I've dropped one of the plasma pistols and a lascanon and bought an astropath instead. It personally seems to a bit waste for just one unit, but I'll give it a try. I'll keep my plasma vets in chimera however, because they have firing points.
Ok, if you think it's a waste you could try for an Officer of the Fleet, which gives you an edge over AirCav lists.

Midnight
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Concerning the basilisks:
In 5th edition, I would agree that their minimal range would be trouble. Now in 6th I don't think it is anymore. When you target anything within your minimal range, you can (and in fact have to) fire indirectly. Guard BS 3 is not that much of a help anyway, so it does not change the results much. Guard artillery (even Mantichores) have to fire most of the time indirectly anyway: from a safe position where no one sees them (and so they see no one). Basilisk ignores MeQ armor, ignores almost all cover, pins with -1 to ld and can fire anywhere, so has some advantages compared to a Leman Russ.
 
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