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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, here goes, first list with the new book. Comments and criticism welcomed as I suck terribly (the only time I've ever beaten my regular opponent was when we first got Battle Missions and we rolled one that his army was ludicrously unsuited to - I am otherwise at 100% defeat). I usually fight orks, though chaos marines are possible in future, and my usual problem is that I can't seem to put enough firepower forward to keep the enemy from reaching me with enough of his force that my infantry (if any) folds like wet cardboard and my tanks are destroyed by nobz with power klaws or even just hull point loss from all those S4 attacks on the charge vs 10 rear armor. In case you're wondering, we typically don't use fliers so flier defense is not a priority here (cue 3 helldrake list...)

HQ

Tank Commander
Lehman Russ Executioner with lascannon and plasma sponsons
Lehman Russ Exterminator with heavy bolter sponsons and pintle mounted storm bolter

Troops

Panzergrenadiers 1 – Flamers
Veteran Squad
Heavy flamer
Flamer x2
Krak Grenades
Chimera with Heavy Stubber

Panzergrenadiers 2 – Plasma
Veteran Squad
Plasma gun x 3
Plasma pistol on sergeant
Chimera with heavy Stubber

Panzergrenadiers 3 – Melta
Veteran squad
Meltaguns x 3
Krak grenades
Chimera with heavy stubber

Fast Attack

3x armoured sentinels with autocannons

devil dog with multi melta


Heavy Support

LRBT with lascannon, pintle mounted heavy stubber

LRBT with lascannon, pintle mounted heavy stubber
 

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I think the problem you have here is twofold:

As you say, it's a lack of firepower and infantry. I have found against Orks when playing guard Vets in Chimeras don't work very well, I would swap them out for either lots of small infantry squads (MSUs) or blobs. My personal preference is the latter, because First Rank Fire is great on a blob, especially against Orks. All those extra lasgun shots against weak Ork armour really thins the herd. I think in many ways lasguns are the ideal weapon to deal with Orks, almost as if they were designed for use against them en masse.
Artillery is also very useful: I used to use Griffons a lot against Orks and they were excellent with str6 ap4 blast. However, the next best thing now (some people think they are actually better) seems to be Wyverns, at 65pts a piece with twin-linked Heavy 2 barrage and shred, you are getting an accurate re-rolling to hit and to wound weapon that doesn't need LOS. It's only ap6 but this doesn't matter becauase it's about quantity of shots for a cheap and Orks generally have piss weak armour. I'd consider taking 2-4 of them (in squadrons of 2) if facing orks regularly.
I'd also recommend a Manticore, as at str10 ap4, they can deal with tanks as well as most types of Ork infantry, and will insta-kill anything without T6 or Eternal Warrior. I almost always auto-include 1.

I think generally speaking you are pumping a lot of points into pointless upgrades: Please don't take a heavy stubber on the Chimera lol The Multilaser is just fine. Also, get rid of the heavy stubbers on the Russ's, you should only be adding stubbers if you have left over points (to make it less likely your main weapon will be destroyed if your opponent rolls Weapon Destroyed on the damage table) and really cannot think of any other way of spending them.
I'd ditch the lascannons too on the LRBT's, as you can only snap fire them if you fire your ordnance battle cannon and move, making them a big points sink that wont ever do much.

So yeah, I think you need some big changes and strategy to the list if you are facing Orks on a regular basis and losing all the time. I don't think it's geared well at all to deal with them as it stands, and could be why you are losing rather than a lack of skill on your part.
 

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Wyverns are 4 shots total. 2 twin linked stormshard mortars.
That's a filthy amount of fire power when you take into account their cost, twin linked and shred.

I'd also like to point out that statistically you will be destroying your own executioner through the get hots (ok you need to first roll a 1 and then a 50/50 chance to take a glance) but still possible. Unless lucky on warlord traits. Maybe consider a Primaris for Prescience? Other then that generally what Straken suggests makes sense.

I'd add in my thoughts about the devil dog and Sentinels and possibly even flamers on Vets but that's down to personal choice. Maybe consider heavy flamers on Chims.
 

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In my opinion, against orks, Mantichore is a must. It pretty much wreaks everything they have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks everyone. Working on an adjusted list, but thought I'd put in a few explanations as to why things were the way they were (not arguing any of your points, just explaining):

1) My infantry historically has not been veterans in chimeras - usual usage was as mostly stationary pillboxes for platoon or senior command squads to extend their command range and reduce the risk of the commander being picked off. I would have a blob of 20 or so (with a commissar) and a few 10 man units (some vet, some not) that would be able to maneuvre more flexibly. I'd also have one or more heavy weapon squads with autocannons and/or lascannons (separate squads obviously). This list was me attempting something different and thus the vets in chimeras was not a factor in previous defeats. In previous usage, the stubbers were because the chimeras were not expected to move much and the chimeras would be on anti infantry duty once the trucks were all stopped, so extra shots seemed like a good idea at the time.

2) Re: Executioner - oh right, the main gun gets hot now. 1 in 12 shots does a hull point, 4-5 shots per round...self destruct is by no means unlikely. I hadn't considered that. Rather than a psyker, I almost wonder if a tech priest might not be a better investment, as he can repair hull points and weapons lost as well.

3) Re: LRBT in general: I assembled all my Russes back in the 5th edition days of "Lumbering Behemoth" so they mostly have lascannons, both because they could fire both (yay) and because having played other armies and had an expensive tank with one gun suffer a weapon destroyed result early, I liked the idea of ensuring that the tank would continue to be useful even if the main gun went down. The stubbers are mostly there to a) reduce the risk of losing my main gun now that it's a random roll what gets destroyed and b) look cool. I probably should have reconsidered once I realized that the main gun makes all other guns snap shots, but might have remained paranoid anyway (re the lascannon anyway, the stubbers I'm not married to).

BringbackMacharius: what were your thoughts on the devil dog (I've had difficulty stopping battlewagons in the past, and a small blast melta instakills meganobs - that said I'm not married to the thing and can readily either drop it or make it a hellhound instead) and sentinels? I'm curious to hear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Attempt number 2 (probably overcorrecting but whatever). Oddly this will be my first time using a manticore (I have one and built it, just never really got around to using it - probably the minimum range thing as I tried a basilisk once and got caught first with the targets I wanted being too close and later with nightfall and excellent targets being outside 36 inches)

HQ

Tank Commander
Lehman Russ Executioner with lascannon and plasma sponsons (sorry, I just have a converted one that has a banner bole stuck where the spotlight would ordinarily go so it looks really command tankish)
Lehman Russ Exterminator with heavy bolter sponsons and pintle mounted storm bolter

Techpriest + 3 servitors with servo arms (can lose a couple and still have a good chance of repairs)

Comissar

Troops

Platoon 1 deploys as blob with commissar

Command squad
Base
Heavy flamer
Flamer x 2
Vox Caster
Chimera

Infantry squad 1
Base
Grenade launcher
Vox caster
Mortar

Infantry squad 2
Base
Grenade launcher
Vox caster
Mortar

Infantry squad 3
Base
Grenade launcher
Vox caster
Mortar

Platoon 2 deploys as MSU
Command squad
Base
2x flamer
Heavy flamer
Vox Caster
Chimera

Infantry squad 1
Base
Vox caster
Meltagun

Infantry squad 2
Base
Vox caster
Meltagun?


Heavy Support

LRBT

LRBT

Manticore
 

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Generally Sentinels are cheap alternatives to squishy HWT found in platoons. They are good because you can move them out of cover, usually into more cover, and take a pop at what you want. However, they will usually get shot back and usually die. AV 12 front helps reduce what they can be killed by. So unless lucky, they won't survive a turn or at least that use to be the old status quo. Take a few shots, hope for damage then get destroyed. Against orks this may be a different story also. It this list purely for orks?

As for the devil dog. I've always loved the hellhound and when they introduced the variants I really wanted to use them. Until you take into account their points, I generally felt they weren't worth it. But yeah if they have foot slogging MW big guys you have a specific hatred for the Devil dog will do it.

I always wanted to use the chem cannon to eat Farseer/Warlocks on Eldar jet bikes.
 

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All the worry about Executioner I think is bullshit. 1 in 12 will cause a glancing hit. So by turn 4 you will have caused a glancing hit, unless you are taking plasma cannon sponsons (unnecessary). Who cares? Russ's rarely last that long anyway. Go and kill some shit and stop worrying about gets hot!
And besides, with all the plentiful and relatively cheap access to Prescience, you could use that to re-roll hits (and you get to re-roll the get shot roll too). Problem solved. Cats it on a whole squadron and it increases in value.
 

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The point of taking precautions against gets hot on anything, especially Executioners (as was my suggestion, by no means did I declare executioners shouldn't be taken full stop), is that generally the enemy will be shooting at them with highest prio, so there's no need to help them along. And if you are unlucky enough to roll 5 1s I'm sure you will be wishing you spent 50 points on prescience now =P
 

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All the worry about Executioner I think is bullshit.
Pretty much, though I take PC sponsons because why not. In the new dex she's even 50 points less with them than before, so even more 'why not' in my books.

I've never seen one go down to Get's Hot! and if I did I'd just chalk it up to unlucky dice and keep playing the game. Heck, maybe now this one cursed with bad dice will be over even sooner so we can get into a new game.
 

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I don't think there is any "worry" just advice for remedying it. If I'm only taking 1? Probably not gonna bother with prescience just for that. A whole squad with 15 gets hot rolls? Yeah 50 points is worth it. For sure. Just for them.

I probably wouldn't take enginseer purely for fixing any possibly gets hot as per OPs redesigned List. But generally in a full mech army? Sure.
 
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