Your army has a lot of really good stuff, I do see it struggling against a very fast army that can get the jump on you, out shoot you, or even out Assault you. Let me explain as here is what I mean; and I will try to stick to your basic theme and units.
The army I can really see my army struggling against is a J-S-J Tau army, I got slaughtered at a local tourney by one, back when I had just started with Eldar, but my list has changed and my tactics have VASTLY improved since then as well. But yeah a fair comment if it’s backed up.
Your Autarch is a good CC machine; but if he had units that he could join and Withdraw with (like you Harlies) he would just be that much better. The problem is that in real games it is difficult to get him to join with Harlies (apposed to say Shining Spears) as they need to dis-embark and move into a spot where he can join them. Thus I would suggest dropping one unit of harlies for something like Spears or even Spiders (becuase they all use 12" move base, and can move during the assault regardless of actually assauting).
Fair point, the Autarch is a daemon in combat as it stands, able to wipe out or at least cripple most small (ish) units 5/6 man las/plas teams or Battlesuits, which are the targets I’m aiming to take out, along with small dev squads.
I do like the idea of Shining Spears, I really do, but, they are, to me a one it wonders, one turn of combat and then they tend to be mobbed and utterly destroyed. Defiantly something to consider though, and a unit I look to try at some point for sure. Although I’m not really willing to drop a unit of Harlequins, my precious Harlequins! Spiders are bit, nah, for me, they look good in theory, but in game turns I’ve found them wanting on many occasions, there is just too much barrage, guess weaponry out there that can take the entire squad out in one shot, Vindis, Basilisks, D-Cannons, Defilers you get the picture, and they are one of the units, for me, that carry a high threat perception and are a must kill when facing them, same for Hawks as well, thf.
(140) Autarch, JB, LL, Mand, F-gun
(187) 4 Shining Spears, Exarch with S-rider and Withdraw.
---- Do you see how these two units add to each other, the Autarch gives them all plasma (so they will often strike first), they all have S-rider so they can re-roll as they enter d-terrain, and Withdraw will get all of them the ability to re-locate as required. Together they can go into an enemy with 5 str=6+ shots, and 15 str=6 PW attacks; all at BS 4+ Init 5+ and WS 4+. If used right this squad or 2 squads can be assaulting on turn 2.
I do know how these units interact with each other, and how they give each other there strength, numbers and withdraw and Plasma, 6 LL attacks. And yes annihilating a big squad by turn 2 is very attractive, but the problem I have is that, will they peek to soon? And they will be very lonely in the enemy DZ by turn 2, although if all is going well, they would have the support of a Harlequin unit or two by turn 3. The problem I see is that they will destroy a unit, then be left isolated and pretty much dead next turn.
Hmm, in high pts games, a unit of 6 Shining Spears, Autarch tooled correctly and a Farseer on JB with Fortune, would be one hardcore unit!!! Would cost some pts, but my god, *drools a little*.
Now you should keep the mobile part working and the Assault so keep those Harlies; but get them into the action sooner.
(162) 6 Harlies, Sadowseer and 6 kisses.
(200) 1 Falcon, Pulse, Shuri-can, Catipult, HF, VE, SS and Star-engines.
---- The star engines allow you to zip across the table on turn 1 (possibly Tank-shocking as well) and just put your rear armour to his table edge. Thus you can have the harlies dis-embarking, moveing, fleeting, and assaluting on turn 2 as well (supporting the Spears or hitting elsewhere), and re-locating if required.
Star Engines, are a very attractive piece of gear for me to use. But I am a fan of upgrading the catapults to a cannon and well, I’m not really a fan of the cannon as a ‘main’ weapon, I prefer Scatter lasers or Star cannons, as they cause more damage and the range is quite a considerable bit better, for me this is very important on a main battle tank, I can understand they might not be firing every turn and this is one consideration I’m taking into account by downgrading the Star cannons on my Falcons currently to Scatter lasers, but when they can fire, I want the Falcons to be doing considerable damage, I can see where your coming from, don’t get me wrong, but I feel this is where our gaming ethics differ some what.
OK, Assault is covered, now you need some "Troops" that can harrass and possibly "Hold" an enemy in place for a turn or two (CC wall for good stuff to hide behind), and maybe add soem variety or hidden aspects to your list.
(76) 3 Jetbikes, 1 cannon.
(156) 5 Jetbikes, 1 cannon; Warlock has Destructor and Singing Spear.
---- You probably understand how the 3 pack works, so I won't bore you. But the other squad is very diseptive to most players (and enemies). It looks soft but its actually small enough to hide easily. It doesn't look like it can do too much; but it does have a cannon for side/reaer armour as well as the Spear, and the Flamer (destructor) coupled with 3 Cats and 1 Cannon can actually take a tool on plenty of units (even if their in cover). If you can get all the guns working, the unit even has enough figures to go into selective CC's to build you a Wall if needed, or just to tie something down until the Spears and Harlies can get there to assist.
I do like the harass and hold elements, the hold element, is something I currently do not possess in the list, and something I have been looking into either purchasing(£££) or adding to the list from my bench units (DAs, Guardians, Warlocks, 2 units of 6 Dragons and wave serpents to match).
Your suggestions all make sense, but again, I think it falls down to gaming preferences, I like the Jetbike units small, and fairly cheep. The Warlock seems a good addition though; possibly something I could look into purchasing for an existing unit of Jetbikes. For about 50pts it will add lots of diversity to a unit and another warm body as well.
Next we need some serious Anti-tank. I know that Hawks are great on a Monolith (or anything) but they are truely one hit wonders and they are not the easiest to use well. Thus I suggest something a little more conventional with a few twists thrown in.
Agreed, I have used them quite a few times and well, they are good, but, yeah one hit wonders, that’s if they get there, which tbf, they do tend to, due to my ‘skillful’ high rolls on the fleet movement yay for 24” charge at Landraiders, but there are better things out there, I do agree, they should probably be dropped in favour of a more VP denial unit that can tank hunt.
(113) 6 Fire Dragons, Exarch with Dragons Breath Flamer and Crackshot
(200) 1 Falcon, Pulse, Shuri-can, Catipult, HF, VE, SS and Star-engines.
---- Again the Star engines allow for that first turn "Rush", just leave the FD's inside and then on turn 2, when they Dis-embark, move and shoot something, your Spears and/or Harlies should be close by to finish it off, thus the FD's gain some safety from return assaults/shooting as well. Now, the DBF is there for a variety of reasons, if your enemy sticks his Devastators in cover, then they will be hit with that str=5 flamer that allows you to re-roll wounds and gives no cover saves.... ouch. The unit is also very usefull against things like Termies as they are normally pretty small in number so those 5 Ap=1 weapons and the flamer can normally take a big chunk out of them.
A very very good strategy, and one I’ve been looking to employing, I do like to boost my Falcons the 24” when I’ve taken Fire Dragons (most battles). The exarch, well for me the jury is still out on weather or not I should be taken, as it adds to the unit cost, 6 basic Fire Dragons cost under a 100pts! (Amazing, I’ve said, its one of the best pt for pt purchase in the game), and well, the Exarch is not a compulsory purchase for me. But on the plus side, it adds some much needed increased BS, hitting on a 2+, the very cheep upgrade in the Flamer (lol) adds some much needed diversity, and the ability to take out units well dug into cover (Toasted Pathfinders anyone?), but that does not take advantage of the Exarches better BS, and takes away what could be a vital Meltagun hit. The added crack shot is very impressive though. Coming in at under 20pts, its not a huge price hike, but it turns what’s an extremely cheep unit (96pts) into a not quite so cheep unit, but it is very effective, and one I have been pondering myself, weather or not to upgrade an Exarch, if so to add crack shot and then… weather or not to swap the Meltagun to Dragons Breathe, so yeah defiantly an option I’m not ruling it out or in, lol.
Now your still missing that Big gun you had and some extra mobile support so let me see what I can do for that.
(70) 1 Vyper, Scatter and Shuri-can
(195) 1 Fireprism, prism, cat, HF, VE, SS, and Star-engines.
---- Now you could run the Prism a lot lighter if you wanted to, the only reason I put the VE and Star-E in there was to give it the ability to "Rush" with your other tanks on turn 1; which would also compensate for only having the 1 Vyper. You understand how these two units work I am sure; the only thing I will add is that the Vyper (in this capacity) sould be used more cautously as it is better as a mid/late game unit that focuses on VP denial for early success.
I’m not eager to let my Prism get that close to the enemy, because it is just a floating big gun, with a big range, and I want to take advantage as that, tbh, I like it to hang back and snipe away at units, or tanks. So for me, Star cannons are a big no-no for me, on the Fire Prism at least. And yep the VP denial on the Vyper is duly noted, it is quite a skill to keep the Vyper ticking over the VPs while still remaining alive, one I have yet to master, but I keep trying.
If you wanted to have the second Vyper you could easily trim the second JB unit down to another 3-pack special; but, you would loose all "Holding" power for the army if you did this, and because the Vypers should be used as "Fire-support" you may find that you don't have a lot of things to shoot at as you can easily assault 2+ enemy units on turn 2, as well as have those FD's blasting one unit away, not to mention any Tank-shock or shooting that the tanks will be doing for you turn 1-2....
I agree, the lack of a holding unit in this list is quite worrying, and one I have been looking to improve on. But a second Vyper is very tempting and one I will probably an option to tempting to resist, as much as I appreciate the idea of a holding unit (it is a very good idea, and one I had been contemplating, the idea of a Warlock lead jetbike squad is quite tempting)
Let me know what you think as I have run a lot of these Mechanized, assault based armies (in tournies) and although the point level is a bit low (for me - most tournies running 1.7-2K) the concepts are the same.... Oh and believe me, the next unit I would add would be a good unit of Hawks as Necrons are an issue and the Hawks have been one of the most reliable Monolith destroyers I have ever found.
Cool, how have done? (if you don’t mind me asking, you do make lot of sense and all your suggestions have been well thought out and I can tell you play Siam-Hann a lot, you also seem a very experienced gamer.) Yep Hawks are great one hit wonders, probably a bit too expensive, for what they are, but still, a good unit.
Right well, that was an epic reply lol!!!
So your proposed list is
1 autarch – laser lance, jetbike, mandiblasters, fusion gun
6 fire dragons – exarch, flamer, crackshot
6 harlequins – 6 kisses, shadowseer
3 jetbikes – shuriken cannon
5 jetbikes – warlocks, destructer, singing spear, shuriken cannon
4 shining spears – exarch, skilled rider, withdraw
1 vyper – scatter laser, shuriken cannon
1 falcon – shuriken cannon, holofields, vectored engines, spirit stones, star engines
1 falcon – shuriken cannon, holofields, vectored engines, spirit stones, star engines
1 fire prism – spirit stones, vectored engines, holofields, star engines
My current list (with changes)
1 autarch – laser lance, jetbike, mandiblasters, fusion gun
6 harlequins – shadowseer, 6 kisses
6 fire dragons – exarch, flamer, crackshot
6 fire dragons - or a squad of Avengers with say defend to be the ‘hold’ part of my list, I would have to drop a squad of jetbikes as well)
1 wave serpent – scatter lasers, spirit stones, vectored engines
3 jetbikes – shuriken cannon
3 jetbikes – shuriken cannon
1 vyper – scatter laser, shuriken cannon
1 vyper – scatter laser, shuriken cannon
1 falcon – scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines, holofields, star engines
1 falcon – scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines, holofields, star engines
1 fire prism – spirit stones, holo fields, vectored engines
I have to be honest and say, I would love to implement most of your changes, especially the shining spears, as they are pretty hard core, but, at the moment, I don’t have the money to purchase a squad, I would drop the fire dragon squad in wave serpent take make room and then add a warlock to one of the jetbike squads to make the points up.
So yeah, I’m very grateful for your post, but atm, I don’t have the funds to implement the changes.
-Rob
