[martin4696]

basically got a bit bourded so here it is

hq.

148 - farseer - spear, warding, jetbike, doom, eldritch storm

140 - autarch - jetbike, mandiblaster, fusion gun, laser lance

elites

150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines

150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines

troops

76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon
76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon

fast attack

60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons
60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons

heavy support

50 - vibro cannon
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers

thats it i think its 1500 exactly, would you make any changes, how do you think it would do in tournaments???

thanks
martin

 

[Desolatemm]

very fast army to have those wraith lord slogging around. You probly jsut plan to sit them in the back right? I've never used a vibro cannon before, but i can imagine it works well against any troops, and glances vehicles as long as it hits which is nice. I have no idea how your army would do, but it looks good to me

 

[Imperial Dragon]

have you thought about using vibro cannons no wraithlords and jetbikes and vypers?

but the list looks like it wouldn't do to bad

 

[Tithanlir]

It's too weak.

Those banshees in Wave Serpents are useless and at least insert a unit of Harlequins. Read the codex well and come up with another list.

If you need any help just ask.

 

[martin4696]

It's too weak.

Those banshees in Wave Serpents are useless and at least insert a unit of Harlequins. Read the codex well and come up with another list.

If you need any help just ask.

hit me with what u have got??

 

[Desolatemm]

Against a nid army, you would get slaughtered... You dont have enough shots to make some dents. The Eldar are very good for getting a lot of S6 shots out. I would suggest less expensive stuff and a lot of it. Dire avengers or guardians really can do some damage if they can get into range. The wraithlord are ok, best comparison to a Carnifax. Ditch the vibro cannon and get a falcon. Drop one wave serpent and both Banshee squads. Replace them with fire dragons in the falcon, and harlies in the wave serpent (or vis versa). You might even consider using war walkers with some scatter laser love. If you take your farseer off the jetbike and stick him with them, they would get 24 S6 shots with re-roles which works extremely well against infantry and low armour vehicles.

 

[moc065]

hq.
148 - farseer - spear, warding, jetbike, doom, eldritch storm
Too much junk, trim one power and think about what he will provide overall. If you need anti-tank then keep e-storm, otherwise just use Doom to help you banshee's, etc or maybe drop them both for Mindwar that woudllet you pick out the nasties you can't deal with.
140 - autarch - jetbike, mandiblaster, fusion gun, laser lance
No comment as this configuration rocks.
elites
150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines
Whynot a full squad? and why have the underslung Shuri-cannon ? A smart opponent will at least shake the serpent every turn so I don't see it shooting that often
150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines
Same as above; but really, you should take a different unit as if you run into a force that Banshee's have little effect on then you may really want something else (FD's, WG, Scorps all have their uses so don't become too limited).
troops
76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon
76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon
Never a fan of Min/Max untis; but these do serve a purpose and I can't say anything bad about them
fast attack
60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons
60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons
Scatter and Shuri-cannon varient would give you a little better range for early enemy light vehicle control, as well as an extra shot; but these to can be effective if used carefully.
heavy support
50 - vibro cannon
Did you just have 50pts left over, as this looks really "Thrown In" and I don't see it doing that mcuh for you. Seriously, what is one a Vibro going to do besides take a hit or get ignored ?
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers
These are great; but if your don't have them modeled with 2 flamers there is not need to take the time, as the Cat is just as good and they really should be avoiding any close contact with the enemy and sticking to the use of their "Real Guns". Nice though and they are awesome as long as you can keep them out of HtH.

Overall the army has a decent concept, but I do see it as a bit of a "One Trick Pony" as its lack of viversity will have smart opponents exploiting its weaknesses. Feel free to ask how things could be improved as I do see some great potential in here.

 

[martin4696]

Against a nid army, you would get slaughtered... You dont have enough shots to make some dents. The Eldar are very good for getting a lot of S6 shots out.

are you half joking here, i have loads of st6 shot,

waveserpents = 12 (6 twin)
vypers = 12
jetbikes = 6

thats 30 shots , and the vibro WILL just go throught hourde armys on its own lol

and moc065 - what have you got ideas wise???, idea.

turn 1 take out as many tanks as possible , 2 lords, vibro, eldritch and any s6.
turn 2 finish tanks, and c.c.w with banshees, farseer, autarch
turn 3 clear up lol

ovioulsy its going to be longer than 3 turns but i hope u understand lol

thanks
martin

 

[moc065]

are you half joking here, i have loads of st6 shot,

waveserpents = 12 (6 twin)
vypers = 12
jetbikes = 6

thats 30 shots , and the vibro WILL just go throught hourde armys on its own lol

Which at 1.5K is not really that much (its about average)... I can show you how to have 100+ str=6 shots at 1.5K; but your list does not need that, as it uses cc atacks combined with its shooting. In regard to your Wave Serpents, don't count on their shooting as any smart opponent will shake them at least for 4/6 turns, Vypers are just fragile and with the range you have on them, they will get plowed under by turn 2 on average (unless your awesome with range sniping, etc), the JB'e however are solid shots; but they are to little to really have a great effect.

Things to make your shooting more effective without to many Points increases and/or units swaps.

1. Serpents get TL-Scatterlasers and no underslung Cannons, thus they get 4 good ranged shots that can be used turns 1-3 while the vehicle maintains some distance (limits return LOS) and the rest of your army sets up for the CC squads to move in.

2. Vypers go to the Scatter & Shuri-cannon varient, so that in the early game it is easier to just use their increased range to avoid return enemy fire while you take care of priority enemy targets.

3. Vibro Cannon goes, smart enemies can pick off a single Vibro with ease (I know that I can) use the points for other guns and/or Spirit Stones on the Farseer so he can use Ee-storm and Doom.

and moc065 - what have you got ideas wise???, idea.

turn 1 take out as many tanks as possible , 2 lords, vibro, eldritch and any s6.
turn 2 finish tanks, and c.c.w with banshees, farseer, autarch
turn 3 clear up lol

ovioulsy its going to be longer than 3 turns but i hope u understand lol

thanks
martin

1.. Tanks are not your biggest threat, as a fast army will entrench your WL's and shake your Serpents to just you down.... You need to deal with the fastest elements first (and the tanks). Have you considered a squad of Fire Dragons instead of the second Banshee squad, they two units do work well together and the FD's can certainly take care of any tanks you run into.

2.. Certainly finish off tanks in the mid game and go to CC; but are you seriously considering sending a Farseer into HtH, his best attribute is Doom and e-storm, why waste it... also, a squad of Shining Spears would make the Autarch such a CC monster its rediculous.... its like adding 4-5 wounds to him and a crap load of attacks (not to mention Withdraw) so that he could re-located as required.

3.. Quite right, clean up and grab the objectives... again a reason to have greater range on your Vypers so that they can swoop in at the end game and grab those MO's because they played VP Denial the whole game.

Here is where I would take your list (and I can cerainly ger more "Hard core" than this if you like).

HQ
(140) Autarch, JB, LL, Mand, and F-gun.
(120) Farseer, JB, RoWard, and E-storm.
Elite
(166) 9 Banshees, Ex with Executioner.
----- (140) Serpent, TL-Scatter, VE, and SS.
(113) 6 Fire Dragons, Ex with Dragons Breath Flamer and Crackshot.
Troops
(76) 3 Jetbikes, 1 Shuri-can.
(76) 3 Jetbikes, 1 Shuri-can.
Fast Attack
(70) 1 Vyper, Scatter and Shuri-can.
(70) 1 Vyper, Scatter and Shuri-can.
(187) 4 Shining Spears, Exarch with Skilled Rider and Withdraw.
Heavy Support
(185) Falcon, Pulse, Shuri-can, Catipult, HF, VE, and SS.
(155) Wraithlord, EML & BL.

Totals 1498pts, 9 Scoring Units, 32 Figures.

-- Autarch works with Spears for Turn 2 Assaults.
-- Falcon and FD's work for anti-tank and hard infantry.
-- Vypers and JB's lay down support fire.
-- Farseer uses e-storm as needed and basic psycher suppression.
-- Banshees lay down Fire support (staying hidden) until they can get into "Good" assaults that they can plow right through.
Obviously there are different combo's that work in here as well, you would have more diversity and more potential to deal with different enemies. As for shooting, you have about the same although my list has more range. I have some seriously dedicated anti-tank stuff as well as about the same CC punch you have; but my list shows the ability to delay those fast units that you would have trouble with.

 

[martin4696]

yer i know how to get loads of str6 shots but theres no need to have more than i need IMO.

3 units of 3 vypers twin shurken (540) = 54
3 units of 3 warwalkers twin shurken (360 i think) = 54

swoping the cannons for skatter lasers can get up to 27 more shots. so thats 135 shots for about 1000 points (i think) and farseer doom, and could proberly fit 2 units of jetbikes with cannons and some more things.

but its not going to do much to anything and is all on easy to kill units armour 10.

also how are you planning on taking out the vibro cannon with such a small footprint??

thanks
martin

 

[moc065]

I have no problem with Vibro's, in fact theya re a great unit; I just fel that they are better served in pairs or tripples (to ensure that one actually hits). And as for me personnally getting to a Vibro, well my entire army moves a minimum of 12" a turm (more like 18-36) so I can generally assault on turn 2 if I like. I also bring multiple Mobile ranged weapons so LOS is also not normally an issue for me. I play Saim-Hann style for the most part, and things like Warp Spiders that can deepstrike in, or multiple Vypers-Fireprisms-etc with longer range and better mobility can often pick out a single Vibro.

If your army has support for the Vibro, then getting to them can be more difficult; but your shots will also be limited in LOS or you will be blasting your own guys as well.

 

[martin4696]

vibro cannons dont need LOS so i hide them in a corner and blow stuff up is the normal plan lol

 

[moc065]

You say that you will hide them in a corner and then blow stuff up. I do have some serious things for you to consider.

1.. You only have 1, so there is no "them". It only has BS=3 so it is only going to anything 3/6 turns (on average - and no Escalation). This is why I said that you should either drop it, or actually get another one to ensure some success in hitting.

2.. It also only has 36" range so many enemies can simply ignore it while they deal with the rest of your army. Especially armies that are fast and shooty, or fast and CC orientated. Here is why:
Fast and shooty just drive around it while they shoot the rest of your army,
Fast and CC orientated get into HtH so fast that you can't target their units.

3.. There are units that can get turn 1, Assaults (let me explain). You will most likely hide the Vibro behind cover to give it teh best protection possible; thus, an enemy with something like Eldar Pathfinder (Infiltrate, Scout) can set up 12" away from them as they won't have LOS... then they will use their Scout move to get into cover (just incase they don't get first turn).. then they will simply move, fleet (if they can), and then assault your Vibro with its 2 man Guardian crew - plowing right over it. I could give you other examples; but I think you get the point.

4.. Super fast tanks will Tank-Shock your vibro.... Falcon/fireprism with Star Engines can set up, then use Eldrad to re-deploy (to be in front of your Vibro) and on his turn 1, blast 36" across the table and Tank-shock you.... right off the table in many cases (especially if he runs two or three of these - which is not uncommon in tournaments).

The concept of a Vibro is great, and if placed centrally behind cover and with the right sorts of protective units around them (notice the plural here) they can dictate a lot of the game for you. I just don't see the rest of your list working in any of these manners to get tthe most from that One Vibro Cannon.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I like your list.... I just feel that you need to tweek it for Vibro use, or get somethign else that works with the rest of your army.

 

[forgotten hero]

I agree take 2 to insure you actually hit something each turn, until they die.

-Rob

 

[martin4696]

moc - i do take your advise and it has been alot more helpful than the others, but for everything you hav said , i could proberly kill the next turn, and its only 50 points.

eg u combat it, yer i lose 50 points you then get charged my banshees, farseer, autarch or just shot to f**k,

you tank shock it even with a falcon i think i could proberly take that down the next turn as well by simply going round the back.

and yer 36 inches plus about 6" on thats 42 from the very side i can reach about half the board. if you are playing a mission you cannot afford to just egnore it while i just walk onto objectives.

and yes 3 out of 6 turn but normaly with a good round it will take out its points, ONLY 50 points.

i have 5 more things

1. its 50 points with such a high destruction power.
2. i had enought probels hiding 2 units of 1 vibro cannons and 2 has a bigger footprint so i dont think i would beable to hide them well enought.
3. its only 50 points
4. if your spending so much of YOUR army on a 50!! point unit then your not spending it on my expensive units
5. for most of your examples it seems to be only eldar against other armys they cannot deal with the 50!! point unit that easy.

i do take on bourd your advice, can you fine 50 points from some were or what would you spend the 50 points on??

thanks
martin

p.s ITS 50 POINTS LOL

 

[moc065]

basically got a bit bourded so here it is

hq.

148 - farseer - spear, warding, jetbike, doom, eldritch storm

140 - autarch - jetbike, mandiblaster, fusion gun, laser lance

elites

150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines

150 - 8 banshees - exarch, exectioner
140 - waveserpent - twin shurken cannon, underslung shurken cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines

troops

76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon
76 - 3 jetbikes - shurken cannon

fast attack

60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons
60 - vyper - 2 shurken cannons

heavy support

50 - vibro cannon
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers
155 - wraithlord - missile launchers, bright lance, 2 flamers

thats it i think its 1500 exactly, would you make any changes, how do you think it would do in tournaments???

thanks
martin

I cerainly can find you the 50pts for a 2nd Vibro,.

Drop one Vyper and upgrade the other to a Scatter.Shuri-can varient.. thus it could be used from farther away to stay alive while the 2nd vibro (with the first one) would ensure their goodness almost every turn.

CaHG