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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Revisiting an old CSM list I made earlier in the year, for xmas i'm getting a 2nd 40k army and i'm torn between CSM and Tau. My Tau list is worked out, now I need my CSM list worked out. This is a touched up version of a list I posted some time ago, hopefully it works.

HQ
Chaos Lord - 133pts
-MoK
-Jump-Pack
-Axe of Blind Fury
-VotLW
-Combi-Bolter

Elites
Chaos Terminators x 5 (w/Champ) - 162pts
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Combi-Plasma Bolters x 4
-Reaper Autocannon x 1

Helbrute
-Power Scourge
-Reaper Autocannon
=120pts

Or (Either Helbrute or Chosen)

Chosen x 5 (w/Champ) -137
-Plasma Gun
-4 x Combi-Bolters
-MoS (Entire Unit)
-VotLW (Entire Unit)

Troops
Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 255pts
-2 x Meltaguns
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Melta Bombs
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 245pts
-2 x Flamers
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Melta Bombs
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Fast Attack
Raptors x 10 (w/Champ) - 243pts
-MoK (Entire unit)
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-2 x Meltaguns
-1 x Power Weapon (Champ)

2 x Heldrakes - 340pts
-Baleflamer (Both)

Heavy Support
Nothing


Opinions, thoughts??


LotN
 

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Helbrute
-Power Scourge
-Reaper Autocannon
=120pts

Or (Either Helbrute or Chosen)

Chosen x 5 (w/Champ) -137
-Plasma Gun
-4 x Combi-Bolters
-MoS (Entire Unit)
-VotLW (Entire Unit
The list in itself is good. You just lack heavy support and have the above quoted options that are just crappy. Chosens with just 1 plasma are useless. 90 pts can buy you a 5 marine squad with the same plasmagun...
Helbrute is, as usual, a very costly body that cannot withstand 2 missile shots.

I'd say, use those 130 pts to buy this:
6 havocs, 2 autocannons, 2 missile launchers (138 pts)

heavy support assured.
Oh, another thing that comes to mind: the MoN on the terminators i've found not to be so useful. They will be shot with plasma or tons of small arms. T5 helps with the small arms but the cost is so steep that you can just rely on the 2+. 30 pts can (wait...MUST!) be used to buy Sigils of Corruption for your Lord! Otherwise he is going to die horribly against the first missile or properly equipped enemy lord or MC!
 

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HQ
Chaos Lord - 133pts
-MoK
-Jump-Pack
-Axe of Blind Fury
-VotLW
-Combi-Bolter

Elites
Chaos Terminators x 5 (w/Champ) - 162pts
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Combi-Plasma Bolters x 4
-Reaper Autocannon x 1

Helbrute
-Power Scourge
-Reaper Autocannon
=120pts

Or (Either Helbrute or Chosen)

Chosen x 5 (w/Champ) -137
-Plasma Gun
-4 x Combi-Bolters
-MoS (Entire Unit)
-VotLW (Entire Unit)

Troops
Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 255pts
-2 x Meltaguns
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Melta Bombs
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 245pts
-2 x Flamers
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Melta Bombs
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Fast Attack
Raptors x 10 (w/Champ) - 243pts
-MoK (Entire unit)
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-2 x Meltaguns
-1 x Power Weapon (Champ)

2 x Heldrakes - 340pts
-Baleflamer (Both)

Heavy Support
Nothing


Opinions, thoughts??


LotN


I like it. The Raptors are built nicely, they can assault well if they get the charge with MOK, and can also pop vehicles with meltaguns. So they are nice and flexible.

Hellbrute - no idea, but looking at it in the codex it just doesn't appeal to me because I just cannot seem to find a role for it. I think there are so many units that are cheaper are more defined in their roles. But I have never tried a Hellbrute so do not have any right to really say if it's bad or good.

x2 Heldrakes. Well, okay, they'll rape most things. lol...However, if you come up against a Deathwing army or an army that is heavy on Av13-14 then they are going to be wasted. Go figure: This sums up the highly unbalanced nature of 40k right now. I only ever take 1 because I just find the other fast attack choices we have in our codex incredibly fun and versatile: Bikers and Raptors are awesome (Bikers more so I think, when you tool them up) and I recommend the Slaanesh builds for bikers if you would like to go that route...But I digress...

Chaos Terminators with plasma and reaper cannon: You know, I am going to re-arm my Terminators this way, because I just love that amount of dakka especially if deep striking or infilitrating with Huron or Ahriman's warlord trait. I currently have my terminators geared with combi-meltas, the odd lightning claw and chainfist, but they are just so limited with that build, whilst with the plasma/reaper build it's just going to rape entire squads or even light vehicles with that amount of dakka. I love it. It makes more sense.

Chosen: I tried them a couple of times with x4 plasma guns in a rhino, and they just become such a target priority that they hardly ever get to use them and make there points back. You only have 1 plasma gun in your squad here, so that makes matters worse...What are they going to do?
If they were scoring it would be a bit better, but even then I have found them a real headache to use and have resorted to using them with Huron and Abby (allied) and max them out with plasma, marks of slaanesh and an IOE and infiltrating them with Abby attached for a eye watering expensive squad which gives Abaddon FNP too lol Very fun because no one ever expects this. But this is complete overkill and a bit of a stupid thing to do in all honesty (I still do it from time to time though lol).

CSM with extra CCW's: Nice. Good build. IoV allows to re-roll the charge doesn't it (or is that Wrath? Always get confused with those two...)?

Have to agree with my good friend above though: You need Heavy Support, and we have a lot of decent options to choose from in the codex. Vindicators and Forgefiends for pie plates, Havocs are probably the most points efficient (but a bit boring IMO) and Oblits are fun and can deep strike in a pinch and very versatile. Your army is very close ranged and needs some long range support, so pick one or two of these to take the heat off the rest of your close ranged units.

Good list though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Been looking over this list and decided that Helbrute and Chosen need replacing. Only three options present themselves to me after thinking it over, either this;

4 x Chaos Bikers - 121pts
-MoT (Entire Unit)
-Icon of Flame
-VotLW (Entire Unit)

Or;

1 x Chaos Predator - 120pts
-Twin-Linked Lascannon
-Heavy Bolter Side-Sponsons

Or;

5 x Noise Marines - 135pts/without IoE - 165pts/w IoE
-Sonic Blasters x 5
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-CCWs (Entire Unit)
-Doom Siren (Champ)
-Icon of Excess*

* = IoE is only possible if I take away the Raptor Champ's Power Sword, the melta bombs for the CSM squads and the Lord's Combi-Bolter.


Which would be a better choice for this army?


LotN
 

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I'd go for bikers. A single tank will be singled out by At fire.
 

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imo, you need something fast and tough, not easy killable single models (predator) or slow, short ranged and not-so-tough units (noise marines).
I'd rather give the bikers MoN and meltaguns to tankbust and MC hunt.
you have enough infantry and anti infantry power to add another (very costly) small unit of marines.
Cheers
 

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Rather than the Icon of Excess,how about bringing the noise marine squad naked and sticking a blastmaster in there? Because everyone loves a st8, ap3 blast that ignores cover and causes pinning with a 48" range. Especially people huddled behind aegis defence lines and vehicles that need a cover save to survive...
It'd save you some points too.
I bring one to most games :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rather than the Icon of Excess,how about bringing the noise marine squad naked and sticking a blastmaster in there? Because everyone loves a st8, ap3 blast that ignores cover and causes pinning with a 48" range. Especially people huddled behind aegis defence lines and vehicles that need a cover save to survive...
It'd save you some points too.
I bring one to most games :)
I would but 6th ed says you need 10 Noise Marines for a Blastmaster, and I can only afford five. To get that i'd have to drop something else.


MoN Bikers huh? Interesting idea.

3 x Chaos Bikers - 131pts
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Meltaguns x 2
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-Icon of Despair
-Melta Bombs


LotN
 

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I would but 6th ed says you need 10 Noise Marines for a Blastmaster, and I can only afford five. To get that i'd have to drop something else.

As per latest faq you can have a blastmaster for every 10 or less noise marines. so 5 + blastmaster or 11 + 2 blastmaster. Also, if you are looking for heavy support, i'd suggest Havocs with missile launchers. Same price will give you 3 ML and a body more


MoN Bikers huh? Interesting idea.

3 x Chaos Bikers - 131pts
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Meltaguns x 2
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-Icon of Despair
-Melta Bombs

Exactly. I'd remove Icon of Despair (it's basically moot...you use it only on non marines, non fearless units, and it's not 100% assured to be effective..meh.) and add another body
 

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Gamesworkshop Chaos Space Marines FAQ
One noise marine may replace his boltgun with a blastmaster at 30pts/model. If the squad numbers 10 or more models, an additional noise marine may replace his boltgun with a blastmaster at 30pts/model..
So thats one for a min squad of 5 or two in a ten man squad :)
I'd take a blastmaster over three krak missiles as the missiles don't ignore cover. Blastmasters are evil as they ignore one of the basic game mechanics.
I prefer the smaller nurgle bike with meltas as thats much nastier than 4 tw bolters.
 

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I'd take a blastmaster over three krak missiles as the missiles don't ignore cover. Blastmasters are evil as they ignore one of the basic game mechanics.
True enough :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Ok had a thought and came up with this altered list, not sure which direction to proceed in yet but I do like the sound of this mixed Slaanesh/Nurgle list.

HQ
Chaos Lord - 135pts
-MoS
-Jump-Pack
-VotLW
-Melta Bombs
-The Spineshiver Blade

Elites
Chaos Terminators x 5 (w/Champ) - 162pts
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Combi-Plasma Bolters x 4
-Reaper Autocannon x 1

Troops
Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 258pts
-2 x Meltaguns
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Melta Bombs
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Chaos Space Marines x 10 (w/Asp Champ) - 243pts
-2 x Flamers
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Rhino Transport
-Icon of Vengeance
-Close Combat Weapons + Bolters (Entire unit)

Noise Marines x 5 (w/Champ) -157pts
-CCWs (Entire Unit)
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-4 x Sonic Blasters
-1 x Blastmaster (Champ)
-1 x Doom Siren (Champ)

Fast Attack
Raptors x 10 (w/Champ) - 258pts
-MoS (Entire unit)
-VotLW (Entire unit)
-Icon of Excess
-2 x Meltaguns

3 x Chaos Bikers - 115pts
-MoN (Entire Unit)
-Meltaguns x 2
-VotLW (Entire Unit)
-Melta Bombs

Heldrake - 170pts
-Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Nothing


Thoughts? Is my original list superior or is this one better??


LotN
 

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I can see this list doing well. Lack of heavy support is a major problem, of course. But with some games you should have some insight on the list and how it works...just try it a couple of games and let us know!
 

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I really like the list. It looks good fun - you're lacking on heavy support, but vehicles won't trouble you and you have the means to mop up men so you should be fine regardless :)

As you've bought VOTLW on every unit anyway, have you thought about going Black Legion? (just to change the artefacts lol) I think you'd be better served by taking the quicksilver blade rather than the black mace. The black mace is nice, but its AP4 unless its on a demon prince. The quicksilver blade is 5 points cheaper than an icon of excess iirc and gives +1 intiative and is ap3 - so you get the d6 demon weapon extra attacks and I7 with the MoS. The rest of your list wouldn't need to change at all...

On the noise marines -
I wouldn't give them cc weapons as they're going to be shooting. Moving with BM's and sonic blasters completly neuters your shooting. The salvo rule sucks...

Votlw is nice, but they're fearless already and you don't want them in cc.
Also, the sonic weapons replace the bolters, so you can't get both (iirc).
if you remove votlw, the cc weapons and the bolters, does that free up enough for a doom siren?
That thing will cause more causualties to an enemy squad then if your whole squad gets into cc unscathed. With the 6th ed rules, you can leave all your men stood still so they can max their shooting and just move the champion into position with the st5 ap3 'flamer' he's got.
It makes deep strikers weep. Their tears will sustain you...

Plus if anyone does try to charge, you can fire the BM on its low setting, getting 3 shots from each sonic blaster and then d3 st5 ap3 hits so up to 17 shots from 5 men on overwatch...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I really like the list. It looks good fun - you're lacking on heavy support, but vehicles won't trouble you and you have the means to mop up men so you should be fine regardless :)

As you've bought VOTLW on every unit anyway, have you thought about going Black Legion? (just to change the artefacts lol) I think you'd be better served by taking the quicksilver blade rather than the black mace. The black mace is nice, but its AP4 unless its on a demon prince. The quicksilver blade is 5 points cheaper than an icon of excess iirc and gives +1 intiative and is ap3 - so you get the d6 demon weapon extra attacks and I7 with the MoS. The rest of your list wouldn't need to change at all...
Do you mean the Spineshiver blade? Cos that is the only sword that has Quicksilver on it. It does looks good, and fitting for a Slaaneshi lord. Also it would free up 15pts for a Doom Siren on the NMs as you suggested.

On the noise marines -
I wouldn't give them cc weapons as they're going to be shooting. Moving with BM's and sonic blasters completly neuters your shooting. The salvo rule sucks...

VotLW is nice, but they're fearless already and you don't want them in cc. Also, the sonic weapons replace the bolters, so you can't get both (iirc). If you remove votlw, the cc weapons and the bolters, does that free up enough for a doom siren? That thing will cause more casualties to an enemy squad then if your whole squad gets into cc unscathed. With the 6th ed rules, you can leave all your men stood still so they can max their shooting and just move the champion into position with the st5 ap3 'flamer' he's got. It makes deep strikers weep. Their tears will sustain you...

Plus if anyone does try to charge, you can fire the BM on its low setting, getting 3 shots from each sonic blaster and then d3 st5 ap3 hits so up to 17 shots from 5 men on overwatch...
Sounds awesome. So maybe ditch the CCWs, may keep VotLW for symmetry if nothing else, and if I take the Spineshiver blade instead of the Black Mace I can get a Doom Siren.


LotN
 

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Do you mean the Spineshiver blade? Cos that is the only sword that has Quicksilver on it. It does looks good, and fitting for a Slaaneshi lord. Also it would free up 15pts for a Doom Siren on the NMs as you suggested.


Sounds awesome. So maybe ditch the CCWs, may keep VotLW for symmetry if nothing else, and if I take the Spineshiver blade instead of the Black Mace I can get a Doom Siren.


LotN
lol yeah, I meant the spineshiver blade
Swing and a miss...:laugh:

Thinking about it, you'll have to have VOTLW on the NM's as if you go black legion everything has to have it, but you'll save enough points to get the spineshiver blade in there regardless :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
lol yeah, I meant the spineshiver blade
Swing and a miss...:laugh:

Thinking about it, you'll have to have VOTLW on the NM's as if you go black legion everything has to have it, but you'll save enough points to get the spineshiver blade in there regardless :)
Ok gave the Lord the Spineshiver Blade and the NM Champ a Doom Siren with the spare points. Also removed the CCWs and Bolters and just switched Bolters for CCWs for free, that way they can at least do something if they get into melee rather than die pointlessly. Maybe take a model or two with them if they get killed.


LotN
 

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I think you've got cc protection covered - you've a heck of a lot going forwards and nothing can charge from DS/Outflank anymore so you'll only really have to worry about outflanking mc's the turn after they arrive
There are enough other threats that your opponant might ignore the NM's. I found people did that for one turn :laugh:
A blastmaster does tend to focus the attention...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think you've got cc protection covered - you've a heck of a lot going forwards and nothing can charge from DS/Outflank anymore so you'll only really have to worry about outflanking mc's the turn after they arrive
There are enough other threats that your opponant might ignore the NM's. I found people did that for one turn :laugh:
A blastmaster does tend to focus the attention...
I imagine the Lord/Raptors and the Heldrake will draw their share of attention, plus the MoN Terminators and MoN MeltaBikers. Really every unit i've got is kitted out that it's worth focusing some attention on, at least in my inexperienced opinion.


LotN
 
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