Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I guess its a pretty standard BA style Mech list but i'm a bit bored of most players in my local store feilding their tournament lists every week and going full out at crushing fluff lists like we're in a GT.

Generally the kind of thing i'm seeing is Lash princes backed up by AP2 blasts, Dual Mek Killercan / def dread wall, and jsut today i saw a mini leafblower sneak onto a table.

Anyway this is my basic idea, C&C very much welcome...

HQ

Libby - Lance, Sheild

Elite

Brother Corbulo

Troop

RAS - Fist
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS - Fist
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS -
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS -
Razorback - Twin Ass cannon

RAS -
Razorback - Twin Ass cannon

Fast

Baal - Ass cannon + Hvy Bolters

Baal - Ass cannon + Hvy Bolters

Heavy

Pred - Twin Laz, Laz sponsons

1500 right on the nose
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
i didnt think you could take RAS squads with dedicated transports without taking off their jetpacks?

i love razorbacks myself. but dont you think you have too many of them? you could send larger squads with assault jetpacks and deepstrike them onto the field. i guess i cant forsee everything you're going to face but if you face infantry with heavy weapons they could crack your tanks and then your squads may find themselves outnumbered, overall though it looks pretty balanced.

why not a landraider crusader with a squad of termies inside with a Sang priest? that would be nightmarish for them to deal with :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yeah all squads are minus JP's just assumed i wouldnt need to put it :p

I have looked at throwing in a LR but to make it fit points wize in this size list i'd be having to removed atleast 2 razorbacks and squads and 1 Pred. The way I figure it is who has enough firepower to take out 8 AV targets that can all move 12'' and still fire their Laz/Ass cannons and can move in a castle for a 5+ cover save from the libby.

I COULD use Jetpackers but then I'd give people something their str 4 and under weapons can effectivly do something about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,275 Posts
Eww, nasty.

couple of things: i don't see much of a point in taking Corbulo; IMO you could take a couple of Sang. Priests for his cost and buff more of your RAS, which you'll need more desperately due to small squads.

consider giving the Baal Pred flamers perhaps? you could go for knocking out infantry that's in terrain. i'd also even consider dropping sponsons on them all together.

don't like the single Las Pred: though often over looked any more, i'd take two Whirlwinds (pretty close to costs for one Las Pred, IIRC...) as (i think, no codex on me) it can fire munitions that ignore cover saves, and other munitions that cause pinning.

TBH, i'd give all Razorbacks Las/Plas. if you're going for killing hordes, i'd recommend HB.

with all that said, this is a tough list, but i'm trying to think of ways you can take more squads or more HQ/Elites to buff your list more. Razor lists are supposed to uber competitive (and i can see how) but damn i hate small squads.

good hunting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
HQ

Libby - Lance, Sheild

Elite

2 x Sang Priests

Troop

RAS - Fist
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS - Fist
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS -
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS -
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

RAS -
Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma

Fast

Baal - Ass cannon + Hvy Bolters

Baal - Ass cannon + Hvy Bolters

Heavy

Whirlwind

Whirlwind

1495

I currently have 2 ass cannon baal's so thats not really on the plate to be changed. I'd taken Corbolo for the reroll for trying to steal first turn but i was on the line as it worked out at working around 24% of the time on average (if my maths is good at half 1 in the morning).

Really like the sound of 2 Whirlwinds over 1 pred - more AV leads to more indecision from my opponent.

Pretty happy with this, yes only 25 scoring models but hey they all live in little metal bawksez with a cover save and FNP most of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
Lascannon/TL-Plasma gun Razorbacks are not my favourite, in this list I'd spam the TL-AsC rather than try to cover longer range, you need the twin linked to get plenty of hits (& rend) - it'd also help you support your Baals (which are fine). Push up 24'' & let them eat 6-7 assault cannons :threaten:

Corbulo is ok actually, he's like a mini Seth but don't expect him to do too much. At 1500 it's an ok choice, Priests don't give much of a buff to 5 man RAS squads (you're effectively paying 10 points to give each RAS FNP & FC which isn't cost effective) in Razorbacks anyway so I'd stick with him.

You need melta in here, Attack Bikes would be good but also 5 man RAS with a melta gun & serg with infernus might help, not everyone needs a Razorback. I'd actually run the Librarian in a 5 man Jump Pack squad.

One Pred is meh, not scary & easily dealt with; drop a RAS & get two or look at other options. Whirlwinds? Can't comment because I've never used them but in this list I can't help but think they'll just end up cut off & left behind, do you play out flankers or deep-strikers? If so, you've just given them a nice pair of targets... I'm not sure but for me BA need to keep moving, get in cose-ish & get those side shots onto enemy armour.

Your RAS are fine & 25 models is ok, but they need something, I'd look at getting meltaguns & power weapons on at least a few squads, don't think those Razorbacks are going to survive all game, you'll need to get stuck in at times!

Libby in Razorback is a waste with Lance since he can't shoot it out of the Razorback, just DOA him in with a 5 man melta RAS :)

Dallas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
change Colombo for 2 persist then drop 2 razorbacks you run the priests with the 2 ras that arnt in razorbacks no and deep strike them that gives you roughly 115 extra points for anything
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Still not quite settled. I like the idea of 5 Las-Plas, their providing me with good chances of popping transports from Turn 1 where as the Twin ass cannons really do rely on closing distance and getting side shots. Dropping las for ass and melta means I have to run my weak tanks towards people who a) can open it in CC easier and b) most probably have short range melta too.

I currently run 2 Priests in my fluffy list and yes it is 10 points per model if hes just buffing 1 squad, i personally (and especially with 5man squads) run them atleast around in packs of 2+ so with 2 squads its 5 points a model for FC and FNP and with 3 squads its just over 3 points each and i really dont think thats a bad price to pay. That said its 5 points difference running 2 priests or Corbolo and I'd like to actually play around with it first, especially with all this las as he might provide that 24% chance I steal and get an mini alphastrike off.

The whirlwinds i'm still not set on. I'm feeling the urge to try and have some template weapons in there.

-Whirlwinds give me 2 large cover ignoring blasts and i can squeeze 2 in for their cheap points cost.

-Vindicator? Probably not, it gets nailed fast on its own and normally ends up and big target with kill me painted all over its front ram.

-Flamer Baal. This is quite tempting. Something I can scout forward and be pushing deep to clear things like Dev squads out of cover early. Pimp it up with side flamers and its actually pretty good template spam for hordes. Also keeps enough points free to put melta in 3 of the squads for emergancy close range firepower.

- 3 Melta attack bikes. Not sure how I feel about these. Definatly something that could push forward with the Baal's.

- Drop 1 Las - plas razor and swap in a standard 2xTLLC Hvy Bolter Landraider. Like the vindy I can see this drawing alot of fire. Question is would it be worth it.

- Another RAS - Fist & Razorback - Lazcannon + TL Plasma squad. Least favoured option but its and option none the less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
I'll have one last go persauding you.... It's all about ROF (rate of fire).

I love assault cannons just because I find it hard to have a bad shooting phase with them, I run 5 twin linked assault cannon razorbacks with cheap RAS right now & that means I throw 20 dice & then re-roll any misses! I'm notorious for bad rolls but with these babies it very rarely goes wrong.

Let's say I'm shooting against AV12 (we'll assume we're playing against mech IG), it goes like this...

5 lascannon shots at BS4 = 3.33 hits vs. AV12 = 1.66 pens

5 twin linked assault cannons shots at BS4 = 17.7 hits vs. AV12 = 2.96 pens

Now, it's pretty obvious the assault cannons do more, but say your very next game is against Tyranids & they have say, 4 or 5 MCs... which guns are going to serve you better? 20 S6 twin linked rending shots or 5 S9? Plus the plasma means you really need to get withing 24'' anyway so I just don't get it? As long as you move 12'' you should be alright, only a mad man would move into 12'' melta gun range, you'll want to be staying 20'' off max.

Assault cannons are just better, better vs mech because you get the four twin linked shots which really makes rending a reality and not just a pipe dream, even against AV14 which is not what I'd use them for (0.55 pens for the las & 0.983 for the assault cannons) they're better just due to the sheer ROF they kick out, & with fast vehicles you effectively have 36'' assault cannons & like I said before, moving 12'' makes you damn hard to hit in hth. They also provide effective shooting against anything, you won't look at a Nid/Ork hoard with such horror & they negate the need for things like Whirlwinds, honesly they just do it all...

Go with Lascannon/TL Plasma if you want but I wouldn't glue them down.

As for melta in the razorbacks, it's ok but remember you can't shoot out of them so it means that small fragile squad is going to need to get out, personally I'd look at putting melta else where in addition, attack bikes or maybe a jump pack unit, even honour guard for the librarian are all good options. Personally, I love attack bikes, I wasn't sold at first but now I put them in the list knowing full well that they'll always do their job.

Dallas

PS. Also remember that the more AV you get in here the better, whilst a vindicator might get the good news on turn 1 or 2 it is AV13 & not so easy to take out, plus your razorbacks can protect it's weak side armour; simply put, the more AV13 you put down for your opponent to shoot at the longer your razorbacks are going to survive! Whirlwinds tend to hide out back & get outflanked, they do little to draw firepower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
2 Razorbacks built - minus turrets, 3 melta attk bikes built.

Gave it a go running them as assault cannon builds. I'll probably want to play them as both (getting the landraider ass cannon turrets AND modeling the razorback laz/plas for some swapping options) but yes I probably will go with ass cannons. Played an Epidemius list and managed to clear almost 15 plague bearers (in cover - T5, 4+ cover save, 4+FNP - what a headache) out whilst killing a soulgrinder and dropping Ku'gath down to his last wound. Pulled a draw with some fast moves at the end, 3 dead attack bikes (ran off the board) and 1 immobolized Baal (24'' range, must remember!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
I dunno. I'd be tempted to stick around with some 48" shot capability that the razorback has access to, though more in the field of tllc instead of the plasma option. i do believe in what dallas is saying with respect to the ba lists, being an in your face kind of fighting force, but do you think it's enough to not have any potshots being sent in from a somewhat mobile backfield? Where other wise you have no access to knocking down your opponents turn 1 and 2 mobility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
I dunno. I'd be tempted to stick around with some 48" shot capability that the razorback has access to, though more in the field of tllc instead of the plasma option. i do believe in what dallas is saying with respect to the ba lists, being an in your face kind of fighting force, but do you think it's enough to not have any potshots being sent in from a somewhat mobile backfield? Where other wise you have no access to knocking down your opponents turn 1 and 2 mobility.
Hmm, but is that what a RAS w/Razorback is for? Hanging back? For me it's not & I'd rather take a Devastator Squad with 4 Missile Launchers for 130 points any day over 1 TLLC Razorback.

Anyway, it's all down to personal taste, I don't doubt that the other Razorback builds can be effective but I do think that careful thought needs to go into the army, you want units that compliment each other etc... There really is no right or wrong way & I'll call it a day now :grin:

Dallas
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top