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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay so i know most people would say its not worth running an actual Codex Black Legion army because you waste alot of points on Veterans....the number of shits i give about that is less than or equal to zero that said here goes my thoughts

HQ-Abaddon the Despoiler -265
HQ-Chaos Sorcerer-Terminator armor, M Lvl 3, spell familiar, Crucible of Lies-180
Troop-10x Chaos Space Marines- MoN, 2x Melta gun, Combi melta and power axe on champ.
Troop-10x Chaos Space Marines- MoN, 2x Plasma gun, power axe on champ- Both squads come in at 225
Elite-3x Chaos Terminators- MoS, Bringers of Despair, 2x combi something, 2x chainfists, chainfist and combi something on champion Icon of excess- 230
Elite-5x Chaos Terminators- MoT,2x power fists, dual Claws, reaper autocannon-243
Elite-Helbrute, twin linked Las, power scourge-135

All in all this list comes in at 1508

The plan is the three man terminator squad drops in with Abaddon, while the five man team runs around with the sorcerer. No mark on the sorcerer lets him roll on the Telepathy tree to make his squad invisible (granted i roll that power) the marines sit around hold objectives and what not whlie the brute snipes what it can

Like i said not going to change my mind on the codex thing so i know thats points i could spend on other stuff, but im welcome to other ideas you guys might have
 

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the only real problem i have with this list is the hellbrute..a las pred is almost the same but might give you better results..

im like you..play what you want..not all games have to be WIN WIN WIN.

im building a list with kharne and the lord of skulls just for absolute giggles..
 

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Have you got everyone VOTLW? as Black Legion have to have it on everyone that can.
Also Crucible of Lies is a teribad item. -1T for +1 to invuln save. That makes you T3, a plasma will now ID you.
The main reason people say BL is bad is because they lose access to all the goodness of Axe of Blind Fury, Black Mace, Burning Brand and only have 1 good item themselves, and that is Skull of Ker'ngar.
CS at least get Blade of Relentless (now even better as you can overspill challenge kills), Slaughter Horns (good for anything but khorne), Daemonheart (also great armour).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
crucible rerolls invulnerable saves of 1 doesnt boost it and yeah im already rethinking that, and how i put some of the points, and im not sure i put vets on everyone.
 

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I run the Black Legion codex regularly. I put my sorcerer with crucible on a disc of Tzeentch, it offsets the loss of toughness and gives a +1 to save from the Mark. The chosen are my troop choice. They maybe expensive but hand to hand as well as any bezerker and a boltgun for ranged attacks.
I would specialise the helbrute a bit. Las cannons and scourge would make him expensive. I go either long range with las cannons and not pay for scourge or scourge and not pay for las cannons and charge him in close.
 

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That's a lot of Termies!

I know it has already been mentioned, but do make sure you have every model taking their Veterans tax, the points seem like not everything may have it just yet.

On to the list though; seems okay, but the foot-slogging Termies aren't going to give you a whole lot of mileage, as anything that fears them will be able to escape them. If you plan on forcing the opponent into a bad spot by pressuring them, Invisible Termies might do the trick, but you need something else that will create significant pressure. Abaddon and his retinue would solve this, but Deep Striking means they will come in randomly and may even get killed depending on scatter.

An overall issue seems to be your list's mobility, as you have no transports to speak of for your guys. This also leaves them quite vulnerable, and many armies will have ways to blow them off the table very quickly.

But, if you hate vehicles or don't have access to them, I think you have the right idea for an entirely foot-slogging force; high toughness and lots of 2+ armor. It's going to be a tougher list to play, but all of the terminators should be a blast to field, and they can be durable enough to hold some objectives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
right now i have a single land raider. I plan to get a couple of rhinos but dont have the money yet. I thought about throwing abaddon and his terminators in it for mobility
 

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A land raider would add some much needed heavy support and provides a good way to get Abaddon and retinue into range. It would also take some pressure off the helbrute. Probably a bit expensive for 1500pts but the rhinos are very useful. I always take two, they protect the troops and and some speed to score objectives.
 

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A word about terminators: they, as with all CSM, are incredibly subpar when compared to their loyalist counterparts. So where is their advantage?

First, and most important is their cheapness. 3* points a piece and the ability to take a unit of only 3 means you can throw some terminator armor on the board for less than half the cost of a minimum loyalist unit.

Second is their ability to specialize better with their upgrades. Now, be careful when buying upgrades as the first benefit always takes precedent. They must remain cheap! Terminators are not hard to kill for their point value. To this end, they should be equipped with JUST enough equipment to accomplish their purpose. Take for example, deep strike tank hunting:

3 Terminators: power-mauls, combi-meltas - 112

Simple, effective and will cause disruption in your enemies' backfield as they must divert fire from your incoming assault units to this new threat. The only thing you might consider adding to the unit is a single chainfist on a regular member of the unit to threaten heavier vehicles in assault. You need not go for potency, you want just enough of a threat to draw fire.

Another example vs heavy infantry:
3 Terminators: power axes, combi-plasma - 112

Again, cheap and effective. These 3 men units are great at filling tactical holes in your force.

For the role of footslogging up the board and soaking fire, you have few, if any, sensible combinations.

5 Terminators: tzeench, reaper autocannon, power fist, power axes - 220

With, or without tzeench, this unit screams, "shoot me with lascannons!" It might get into assault so it has a lone powerfist but really, it's for drawing long range anti-tank weapons away from your vehicles. The reaper autocannon is necessary to make it an immediate threat (not much of one) that warrants shooting at from turn 1. Personally I prefer 5x combi-plasma to the autocannon as you can differentiate yourself better from the equally costed loyalist unit. Otherwise you really are just a shitty version of a loyalist unit (they have ATSKNF, 4x power fists, the cyclone is better than the autocannon and storm bolters are better at range than combi-bolters), your only advantage is +1 invul.

You must be careful to stay out of range of plasma as it will ruin your investment. If plasma is in range your opponent will not feel the need to divert their lascannon equivalents. You also want to stay out of range of massed small arms fire as that will invalidate your extra points spent on tzeench. Now that they score, keeping this unit in the backfield to protect your objectives, havocs, etc is a good way to keep them at the right range while serving a tactically relevant purpose.

The only way this unit might be effective on the table (other than as a fire magnet) is with a sorcerer that happens to roll endurance for a 4++/4+. Speaking of FNP, the icon of excess is not worth it here in my opinion. It's too expensive for what it adds to such an exposed unit.

Where the Icon of Excess can be useful is in the land raider death star. 4x terminators in land raider with a character. Your character should be able to handle ap2 so it's lightning claws all around to best take advantage of i5. Dual lightning claws might be better than single but remember, keep it as cheap as possible!

4 Terminators: slaneesh, 4x lightning claws, icon of excess - 192

By applying FNP to the character, you can arguably justify the icon. With Abbadon you're looking at a ~700pt unit so it is indeed a death star.

The last thing to consider about terminators is the way in which wounds are allocated in close combat. Always having a single model swinging at a different initiative step than the others will allow that model to target specific models (those in base contact) with clever positioning of your charges. It's not a huge benefit but can for example, prevent a Dark Eldar player from putting every wound from your unit on a fortuned shadow field. If you can get only say, your lone i1 model in base contact with the shadow field, the wounds from the rest of your unit must be applied elsewhere.
 
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