[1500] BA mech list

Thanks you

Katie Drake said:

I was initially skeptical when I heard this, but Rifleman Dreadnoughts (that's two twin-linked autocannon arms) are amazingly effective in mechanized Blood Angels armies and they're quite cheap. I'd suggest removing two Vindicators and running Riflemen in their place as these guys are the ultimate light and medium vehicle shredders.

Other than that, if you're going to be taking squads in Razorbacks, go with Assault Squads. Small Tactical Squads are pretty much useless since they can't take any special or heavy weaponry, plus you'll get a discount on the Razorback by exchanging jump packs.

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Hmmm... I have been doing maths about the 2x linked autocanons... it is good, yes, very good.

Remove all vindicators? hmmm... Aren't they good enough?

Lord Reevan said:

yeah change the 5 man tacticals to 5 man assault squads and you're paying 155 for them and the assault cannon razorback. tidy litle saving there then ain't it

I agree with KAtie with the rifleman dreads as vindicators, even though amazingly powerful now with the fast rule, are serious targets and will get knocked early, usually by something that gets close up from my experience too like melta rhino squads, assautl cannons and maybe the odd lazerback. They can all be taken out from basically the get go with autocannons.

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I was thinking in use them as, apart from kill a lot, gather fire from other targets of the army.



Thanks you both a lot.


What do you think about the two next posible army planings?:
Option a:
* 3 baals
* 2-3 riflemen
* 3-4 asault squads with meltas and asault canons razorbacks

Option b:
* 3 baals
* 2-3 riflemen
* 3-4 asault squads with jetpacks (deep strike)

(option b should be a complete reserve army so on turn the baals flank, asault squads deep strike and the riflemen appears and sniper something)


About hq and elite in both options, I am not sure about what to do... sanguinary guards instead to something else?

Shwartz said:

Assault squads instead of tacticals since they have more attacks, get cheaper transports and you weren't using tacticals' special weapons anyway.
Vindicators may be fine with assault squads - if they arrive by Razorbacks. So you may throw pie plates when your boys get into position. But, if you use JP and DoA - thery are already there, so Vindicators are too dangerous to use.

They are fine together - just be sure you don't kill your own assault units.

And, btw, with so many heavy support I'd suggest you to play all-mech - so your army don't arrive piecemeal with your assault units already there and tanks and dreadnoughts stuck in the reserve.

Hope this helps.

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Ty

Some people hates vindis, other loves them..., I guess that all about the list is just to test at game time and play each unit as it should be played

Hmmm... one big question, what I must buy to build a twin linked autocanon dread?? :O

About half army being at reserve, am I wrong or deep striking units enters only with a reserve roll, so it is unlikely only assault squads arrives without vehicles. Am I right?.

But yes, I would like to play a mech list... because of that I was thinking in something like that

* 1 Librarian 100 points
* about 4 Assault squats (each with 1 melta, 1 inferno gun, 1 power sword or fist) onboard of assault canons razorbacks. 195 - 205 each set if I am not wrong from memory.
* 2 riflemen dreads (or vindis)
* 2 to 3 baal predators

If 195 points each assault squad and only 2 baal predators, then you have 90 points left... hmmm

I have placed in the list 4 assault squads with canon razorbacks, but I doubting about if I could use only 17 (6 in two razors and 5 and librarian on last one). Are 17 assault marines with razorbacks too few scoring troops at 1500 points? with these spare points I could use one more vehicle or two.

ty very much!!!!

Shwartz said:

Get yourself a Sanguinary Priest or two for your assault squads (he's the best choice to occupy sixth place in the Razorback). Two Furious Charge/Feel No Pain bubbles is just what you need your assault marines to really start shining.
May I be called a heretic, but with so many assault cannons in the list I'd say two priests are better choice than one of Vindicators (or Riflemen).

Btw, except for Vindi and Dread there is also AC+las sponson Predator as heavy support (oh yes, there is another holywar about what's better and what's more BA way about this tank :wink

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Ok, noted!

Yes, AC/2Las preds are very good. It is better with anti armour than the baal pred with the same point cost. Baal pred can until have hevy bolters sponsors to be more versatile. With point cost.

AC/2L preds are just 15 points more than the rifleman. You are paying 15 for +1 armor and better overall fire capacity. Yes, the pred is fast, but both the pred and the dread can move 15 and shoot all that they have. But... the pred can move up to 45 if it does not fire... which is better to be able to do it than not.

Lord Reevan said:

well a 5 man assault squad, power fist and meltagun in a razorback with upgraded weapon is 190pts. could go with assault cannons to keep the close range style going ad maybe one squad, bare bones assault squad in a lascannon razorback. This unit can hold back, hold any objective in your deployment zone and with a twin linked shot from a lascannon be pretty effective agaisnt enemy tanks too.

the vindicator is good so long as you use it to take out units that aren't near your own units. I field one often enough and I weaken enemy units with it well before the assault then when my guys are too clase I aim it at other units like held back heavy weapons etc. with the fast rule they can do that pretty effectively. just a matter of prioritising targets with them without risking your own guys

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Hmmm... why a power fist and not a power armour + inferno pistol? Because it is better vs big tyranids?

Yes, with fast vehicles you can do surprising moves... concentrate fire easier... etc.








I have then another version of list.
* librarian: 100
* 2 x sanguinary priest: 2 x 50 = 100
* 3 x assault squad. Each one with 1 powerfist + 1 meltagun + assault canon razorback. 190 x 3 = 570.
* 3 x predator baal + heavy bolter sponsors. 145 X 3 = 435
* 2 x AC/2LAS Preds, 135 x 2 = 270

Total: 1475

I have seen that if you removes the heavy bolter sponsors and something more, you can place another predator. Or if you remove the sponsors and change all ac/2las preds to riflemen...

What do you think??? Too few marines?

About vindicators, I will try it in some games to see its behavior.

Thanks you

Lord Reevan said:

powerfist mainly because the current standard in gaming is mechanized and power weapons do nothing against them. fists double your str so you're good for assaulting them, if an IC attacks that squad there's a good chance that the fist can instant kill him too.

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Okkk. But I was thinking about power fist vs power weapon + inferno pistol.

Shwartz said:

Maybe there are some lists like this one around, but I'd still say it's lovely and is exactly what tank-hevay BA list should look at this point limit.

Thoughts:
1) You've got six (!) Twin-Linked Assault Cannons and 2 ac/las preds. May I be called a heretic, but if you had to kill tanks with this many powerfists, something has gone completely wrong. Also, if you save some on powerfists, you may take some Infernus pistols, giving you a lot of "melta" shots from the assault distance.

2) What powers are you planning for the librarian? If there is Sanguine Sword between them, one of the squads have its high-strength CC attacks.

3) I'd suggest you to dedicate one squad to horde duty: PW + flamer + hand flamer would bring someone much pain. Enough antitank around the list already.

4) There are issues around this, but still I think Priests should carry power weapons. Yes, they are 1-wound IC without Invul save, but with FC and PW they have a good chanse to swing and kill a couple of MEQ before they are singled out, paying back some of the points and improving your total assault result (every wound is important with only six guys attacking). And with only FC - orks would still be killed, but something more serious - depends on luck.

5) If you have 5 spare points, take one thunder hammer for the sake of lowering some tough MC's initiative.

Actually, all or my comments are just hair-splitting, the list's great. Best of luck.

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Im starting to feel very proud!! Thanks you very much!!

1) Hmmm... are you saying about removing power fists for something else?
you have 25 spare points. You can get more from heavy bolter sponsors, by example.

With current configuration, the 6 x linked assault canons + 6 x heavy bolters can kill 26 orks (18 by linked assault canons, 8 by heavy bolter), or 28 toughness 3 light infantry per turn (18 by linked assault canons, 10 by the heavy bolters). You kill 2.66 orks/turn or 3.33 light infantry/turn bu each one, which is about 10-12% of the total.

2) Shield is one, because (if I am not wrong) can be used from inside the razorback and use it to protect marines and other vehicles. the other option.... maybe these power to block low leadership horde units... maybe the strenght 10 one... hmmm

3) It is a good idea. Waht is the usual amount of power needed to counter a horde? Because if you concentrate just only 6xheavy bolets + 6x linked assault canons you can kill 26 to 28 light troops (middle).

4) 5) Good facts. More points for a better result.

Like writen earlier, there are 25 spare points and some aditionals could be recovered from a heavy bolter sponsor, a power fists (changing it for something else).

With these points you can upgrade powerfists to thunder hammers, pick some aditional power weapons and/or buy some vehicle upgrades like bulldozers. Maybe convert the librarian to epistolary.





hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I will write one version or two of the army soon...

Lord Reevan said:

Infernus pistols are good but I find they are much too expensive for the 1-2 shots in the game you'd get off with them. Personal taste really if you'd prefer to have infernus pistol and power weapon then go ahead. Not a bad option in all honesty.

the spare 25 pts I'd use to upgrade 2 fists to hammers and then maybe extra armour on another vehicle??

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Hmmmm... I am not convinced about extra armor upgrade. Too expensive for what it does. I think that usually people tends to concentrate fire so your vehicle now will be ok and a second after it will be gone...

I would prefer 3 bulldozers

Shwartz said:

Actually, I didn't mean dropping special CC weapon completely. 5-men squads need some wounds with no armor save.
I've just meant "downgrading" PF to PW, saving some points. If you would take S10 Libby power, you may just well swap 2 powerfists to power weapons, buy Infernus pistol and upgrade remaining PF to Thunder hammer for the freed points.

Also I don't recommend you to drop sponsons from Baals. Yes, there is another holywar about it, but IMHO 12" move may seem nice, but Baal with sponsons unleashes hell when it shoots, and Baal with only basic turret, well, it kills 3 or 4 orks per turn and moves fast. Cool, yes, but not cool enough.

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how many power weapons are a good quantity? If you replace a pf for a pw and inferno, you are using more points so I am guessing that you are saying about using only the power weapon or the inferno, but not both. Am I right?

The heavy bolter sponsors are (middle) like 1.38 marine wounds/turn or 2'96 ork wounds/turn. hmmmm

So... the list now have:
25 spare points + 3 powerfists

--> 20 spare points + 2 powerfists + thunder hammer

or --> 40 spare points + 2 power weapons or inferno pistol + thunder hammer

with these points you can place 2 energy weapons on the sanguinary priesteses and you have 10 spare points so you are able to upgrade a power weapon/inferno pistol again to a power fist or buy 2 bulldozers (by example).

Lord Reevan said:

It's all about how it's played, if it's meant to run up and keep pace with the other fast things in the army then no sponsons would be good, if it's meant to hold back a little and take out as many enemies as possible then sponsons work...

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hmmm... I think that this is only important in the first turn. The rest of turns you should be able to maintaing the "move 15 away and shoot all to the incoming enemy while you fly like a fly". Enemy fast vehicles armies are diferent, thought

Shwartz said:

Definitely it's up to playstyle. But there was IMHO in my phrase somewhere and I'm just a big fan of 10-shots-per-turn-tank. And scout move allows Baal to be at the position and killing thing already (while the rest of the army is fast moving there).

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Lord Reevan said:

oh yeah It's all up to the others opinion I was just explaining the other side of it . but you make a very good point The scout move you wouldn't really need to move the tank the full 12". if you have the points the go for it.

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It is true, 10 attacks' dice rollz over a fast vehicle should scares anybody

Thanks all you very much

Lord Reevan said:

well if you have units moving up in transports, like razorback squads, land raiders, rhinos or ravens if they get crew stunned they're not gonna move the next turn and that's a problem for you as the unit inside is no longer moving up. the extra armour allows that unit to still move, whether it;s closer to the enemy to unload the payload of marines inside or to get to cover to get a good shooting position the next turn.

but that's just how I see it. I try and add it if possible but I usually go for other things like power weapons etc.

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Hmmm, true, but this upgrade is expensive and easy to counter so you must use it only with certain conditions, like by example:
* you know that the vehicle will survive a turn of enemy concentrated fire. Like a land raider.
* that, if exists more vehicles equally durable and good-target-appealing to the enemy, you must have a good reason to place this upgrade in the vehicle, by example if you have a very good character or squad inside and you want to guarantee its arriving, or not but you want to lure your enemy to kill that transport instead of the correct one. If you have not a good reason this upgrade is useless because the enemy will first kill the rest of vehicles and leave this one to the end and then kill it with fire concentration.

Shwartz said:

The more - the better! :victory: Lack of powerfists may be a problem when dealing with Monster Creatures, but - you pack a lot of TL assault cannons in the list so IMHO you should be fine.

I'd advise you to make:

25pts + 3*PF + 1*melta = 2*PW (sarges) + 2*PW (priests) + TH (sarge) + hand flamer (sarge) + 1*flamer + 5pts. Gives you multiple power weapons and a single antihorde squad.

or

25pts + 3*PF = 2*PW (sarges) + 2*PW (priests) + PF (sarge) + infernus (sarge). Same amount of power weapons and extra melta bite in one of your squads.

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Hmmmm... first one.

The list looks like:
* librarian: 100. With shield. I am not sure what to carry like second power. Maybe lance, torment or wrath or...
* 2 x sanguinary priest with power swords: 130 points
* Assault squad. 1 thunder hammer + 1 meltagun + assault canon razorback. 195
* Assault squad. 1 power sword+ 1 meltagun + assault canon razorback. 180
* Assault squad. 1 power sword+ 1hand flamer + 1 flamer+ assault canon razorback. 185
* 3 x predator baal + heavy bolter sponsors. 145 X 3 = 435
* 2 x AC/2LAS Preds, 135 x 2 = 270

Total: 1495

I have some doubts about the librarian powers. I am sure to use "shield" because it is use in the enemy turn so you can use one power on your turn and the shield on the enemy turn.

The options could be:
* lance: can hit multiple targets, but at close range. Good for all type of targets. You can fire it from inside the razorback if I am not wrong.
* power of heroes: could be use to give attacks to the power weapon or thunder hammer.
* sword: strength 10 close combat hits... Not combinable with insta-kill psychic weapon power.
* torment: anti horde?? tactical advantage??
* wrath: repeat to hit at close combat but not vs vehicles. Not combinable with insta-kill psychic weapon power.

Any more??? hmmm

Killll!!!

Shwartz said:

I'd say you're wrong. No fire points == no psychic SHOOTING attacks. And there's enough guns in your list, IMHO. Plus without the surprise of Deep Strike attack you're unlikely to hit IG tanks arranged in the row - enemy will know Libby's coming in the Razorback and won't give you the chance for multi-kill. Most likely, at least.

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Ok, I see . but you can take 1 tank with hight probability of damage it and maybe 1 or 2 infantry models in a row, or a pair of infantry models, maybe 3 or 4 with luck.

Ahh, I thought that models could fire by the vehicle doors :laugh:

hmmm... I have some doubts:
* Do you must roll a to-hit dice to use the lance or not? (maybe because of counting as something like a flamer-like template??).
* At tournaments, Is common to have the right to before-combat read all the enemy list and know what troops are inside each transport??

Shwartz said:

If the first was "Shackle soul" (Ld test to do anything), I'm not sure about it. Many high-Ld units around so usage is limited at best. Marines will just laugh at it.
"Unleash rage" would again be better used if you run Libby and TH Sarge together (maxed damage).

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Ok

Shwartz said:

If libby goes together with TH squad, "Might of heroes" may work. But if you take "Sanguine sword and" run him separately, you'll have 2 high-S CC units on the field. By the way, 4 WS5 S10 attacks ARE Instant Death for most models.

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Shwartz said:

P.S. Take meltabombs for 5pts you have.

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Gooooddddd and sweeeeeeeeeeeettt!!. ok, then:

* One squad with the thunder hammer, the pw and meltagun squad with the sanguine sword librarian and the last one (the flamers one) with the meltabomb
* Or: One squad with the thunder hammer, the flamers squad with the sanguine sword librarian and the last one (pw and meltagun) with the meltabomb.

Am I correct selecting the second option?



With this army I see that: almost all units have a (worst or better) good capacity to attack almost any type of target.



I have very little recent experience: Is this army competitive???

Shwartz said:

P.P.S. Good hunting!

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Ty very much for all!!!!!! :drinks:



I am wishing to have all pieces and start playing it

KILLLLLL!!!! :wild: