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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok everyone I am somewhat a beginner and I am looking for feed back. My buddy and I have recently come back to Warhammer (since high school [10+] years?). Anyways, he picked Tau and I picked Blood Angels .... partly for looks and fluff. I really dig that red, black and gold. (Though I wish GW would play up the whole angel/holy aspect of them more than they do). Needless to say, I've been getting smoked in about 2 turns in our previous games. I have come to the conclusion I must put pressure on assaulting him as if I leave him untouched, I am shot off the board by turn 2. I've done a bit of research and put together what I believe to be not only a decent list which can accomplish that, but does so while providing several high priority targets. Without further talk:

Flesh Tearers Strikeforce - (as +1 initiative from BAS isn't worth it against Tau)

HQ - 155 pts

Captain - 155 pts
- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, The Angel's Wing, Valor's Edge, Warlord

Elites - 695 pts

Furioso Dreadnought - 190 pts
- Magna-Grapple, Frag Cannon, Meltagun
- Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Deathwind Missile Launcher, Locator Beacon

5 Sanguinary Guard - 215 pts
- 4x Angelus Boltguns, Plasma Pistol, Chapter Banner, Death Masks, 2x Encarmine Sw, 2x Encarmine Axe, 1x Powerfist

10 Death Company - 290
- 10x Bolter, 8x chain Sword, 2x Thunderhammers, Jump Packs

Troops 390 pts

Cassor the Damned - 190 pts
- Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Storm Bolter

Tactical Squad - 200 pts (combat squaded - flammer 5 in Razorback, lascannon 5 in Drop Pod)
- Flamer, Lascannon
-Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Storm Bolter

Fast Attack - 135 pts

Drop Pod - 50 pts (Crassor's transport)
- Deathwind Missile Launcher

Razorback - 85 pts
- Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Overcharged engines

Heavy Support - 125

Predator - 125 pts
- Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Overcharged engines


Strategy:

Turn 1: Use Cassor and Frurioso to drop turn one preferably into his back line, making him deal with it. the goal will be to eliminate one or 2 squads which give him marker lights. the Drop Pods have missile launchers to help with this effort too. Or they can just cause havoc. Usually my friend has been using a squad of drones, so some flamers and ordinacne can help take one of those squads away with some luck. Cassor can pop a transport if the opportunity presents itself. When landing, I would try to place both dreads in ruins/cover, as if my plan falls through, he'll have to use markerlights to eliminate my cover save. Best case scenario, I do heavy damage to one unit, they survive and can charge a transport/vehicle on turn 2, however, that may be unlikely - it just depends.

Death Company start on the table along with the Predator and Razorback carrying 5 of the combat squaded troops (includes the flamer). Death Company use cover as they advance to the threat (either a blob of units, or his riptide). Obviously getting objectives on their way if it is convenient. Try to use vehicles as cover when possible. Rhino will attempt to grab objectives pertinent to the battle while attempting to snipe any vehicles. Predator does the same.

Turn 2: HQ and S. Guard arrives near weak point, broadsides or monstrous creatures and threatens a turn 3 charge. Preferably landing in ruins to get a cover save. Angel's Wing and the Locator on Furioso Drop Pod should help. The 3rd drop pod arrives to claim or contest an objective and simply camps while sniping with the lascannon. Troops can run to cover another objective if the opportunity presents itself.

The Captain can hopefully tank some plasma equivalent shots with his 4+ invulnerable saves while trying to abuse look out sir rolls. since they are in cover, more marker lights will need to be used to make his shooting efficient. Taking pressure away from death company and my vehicles.

Deathwind Missile Launchers continue to put out blasts and Death Company advance another 12 inches. Oh! I gave the Death Company boltguns in lieu of bolt pistols because in previous games, his guys melt like butter in CC. It's better to take the chance of having a double tap as I chase his ass down than one additional attack in CC.

That's all I have! I figure, if I can threaten him with all these tools efficiently on turn 2, turn three should be positioning/cleaning up troops as I pressure his HQ and riptide. In addition, I may have a lead since I've been claiming objectives, and he's been turtleing (usually his strat). This list equals 1500 exactly. I've not play tested this build yet, but I am excited to try as I feel it is my strongest list to date.

Please let me know your thoughts and or if you see any glaring mistakes!
 

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Welcome to Heresy! Love seeing new BA players come out of the woodwork and post some lists. Currently commenting from my phone (will have more to say when I get my computer back tomorrow evening), but I like what's happening with your list. Opening thoughts:

Why no Chaplain for the DC?

Why bother with Death Masks on the SG?

Why no Heavy Flamer on the Furioso?

Why Thunder Hammers instead of Power Fists in the DC?

Sorry for the brevity, the phone posts are tedious but BA lists need be answered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ntaw - thanks for the questions. I'll address your questions below:


Why no Chaplain for the DC?
Honestly, the DC have always had their way with the Tau in my experience. The chaplain would be good for the 4+ no doubt. However, 10 feel no pains plus cover as they go across the battlefield should be pretty reliable especially with the other threats looming in his back line. If I were to add a second HQ, I would take a Librarian for a chance at a couple powers in the Sanguinary discipline (decent of angels, wings, invlun save) so.... 4 of the 6 would help support the goals of the army. Depending on power, maybe have DC come down from reserves with jump packs or in a drop.... That could be interesting.

Why bother with Death Masks on the SG?
I had a couple points to spend, but your right, I probably should remove them.

Why no Heavy Flamer on the Furioso?
Hmm, good catch. I changed that in my battle scribe app, but I guess I wrote it in by accident.

Why Thunder Hammers instead of Power Fists in the DC?
Habit. I usually always take thunder hammers since they are only 5 more points. BUT. This is against Tau, you are right. The only reason to take them is for concussive. Odds are things wont last to the second round. I'll exchange for P. fists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
**Updated**

Flesh Tearers Strikeforce - (as +1 initiative from BAS isn't worth it against Tau)

HQ - 155 pts

Captain - 155 pts
- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, The Angel's Wing, Valor's Edge, Warlord

Elites - 680 pts

Furioso Dreadnought - 190 pts
- Magna-Grapple, Frag Cannon, Heavy Flammer
- Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Deathwind Missile Launcher, Locator Beacon

5 Sanguinary Guard - 210 pts
- 4x Angelus Boltguns, Plasma Pistol, Chapter Banner, Death Masks, 2x Encarmine Sw, 2x Encarmine Axe, 1x Powerfist

10 Death Company - 280
- 10x Bolter, 8x chain Sword, 2x Thunderhammers, Jump Packs

Troops 390 pts

Cassor the Damned - 190 pts
- Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Storm Bolter

Tactical Squad - 200 pts (combat squaded - flammer 5 in Razorback, lascannon 5 in Drop Pod)
- Flamer, Lascannon
-Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Storm Bolter

Fast Attack - 135 pts

Drop Pod - 50 pts (Crassor's transport)
- Deathwind Missile Launcher

Razorback - 85 pts
- Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Overcharged engines

Heavy Support - 125

Predator - 125 pts
- Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Overcharged engines

Total = 1485

Hmm, what to spend 15 points on?
 

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Yeah I don't know where my head was; against Tau Chaplains just aren't needed much. However since you're going for durability with your Sanguinary Guard why not get a Priest in there? You could totally drop 75-90 points in wargear or swap out the Captain to accommodate. I know the Captain has three wounds and a 4++, but giving the whole squad Feel No Pain might (will, with good dice) make them last longer in the face of plasma.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Ok, changed it again. This seems pretty good so far. Let me know your thoughts. I've listed the changes at the bottom.

Flesh Tearer's Strike Force

HQ
- 256 pts

Captain - 160 pts
- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Valor's Edge, Veritas Vitae, Warlord

Sanguinary Priest - 96 pts
- Blood Chalice, Bolt Pistol, Combi-Grav, Narthecium, Angel's Wing

Elites - 670 pts

Furioso Dreadnought - 190 pts
- Magna-Grapple, Frag Cannon, Heavy Flammer
- Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Deathwind Missile Launcher, Locator Beacon

5 Sanguinary Guard - 200 pts
- 5x Angelus Boltguns, Chapter Banner, Death Masks, 2x Encarmine Sw, 2x Encarmine Axe, 1x Powerfist

10 Death Company - 280
- 10x Bolter, 8x chain Sword, 2x PW Fists, Jump Packs

Troops 390 pts

Cassor the Damned - 190 pts
- Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Storm Bolter

Fast Attack - 257 pts


Assault Squad -
122 pts
- 5x Marines, Flamer, Plasma Pistol, 4x bolt pistol, 5x chainswords
- Dedicated Trasport: Drop Pod (free)

Drop Pod - 50 pts (Crassor's transport)
- Deathwind Missile Launcher

Razorback - 85 pts
- Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Overcharged engines

Heavy Support - 125

Predator - 125 pts
- Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Overcharged engines

Total = 1498 Points.

Changes:
1) I did away with the Tactical Squad as an Assault Squad get's a Drop Pod for Free.
2) Added Sanguinary Priest to roll with Sanguinary Guard.
3) Angels Wing now on Sanguinary Priest, Captain has jump.
4) Captain will start with Death Company to ideally tank heavy shots.

Thoughts?
 

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You need a second Troops choice for it to be a Battle Forged list. I was thinking more drop the DWMs, drop death masks, drop hammers down to fists, that sort of stuff to get the necessary points. You said you had 1t points left over with your second list right? Minus deathwind missile launchers, death masks, locator beacon, and the Angel's Wing from that list and you have 90 points for a Priest with jump pack and 15 point weapon upgrade.

Christ sorry man this phone crap is killing me. You might have to drop the plasma pistol in the SG as well, but you definitely don't need to drop the Tacs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hey man! Thanks again for your response, this is great being able to bounce ideas of another person.

So actually, I only need one troop choice because of the Flesh tearer's Strikeforce:



On my latest list i did remove the sanguinary plasma pistol and thunder hammers in points, but not text. I've edited the lists. Sorry about that.

I do worry that I simply wont have enough bodies on the field that I should have. I may tinker tonight and see what I come up with. As much as I want to use Sanguinary guard, I really may have to forego including them and just use another unit of death company. they are arguably better in most (not all) capacities. But damn does S. Guard look cool.
 

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I love my SG models but my DC are always on the table. That's ~200 points to get more bodies in there!

Totally forgot you were using the FT Detachment. Apologies.
 

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Ah, life on the big screen with a keyboard in front of it. Glorious.

Just noticed you have Cassor as 190, but he's 140. Typo or more points to spend?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Hey man, it seems like the point allocation for Cassor was a typo. Fixed. However, I have additional changes I wanted to get your thoughts on. What if I substitute the Sanguinary Guard with a Command Squad instead? This gives me a cheaper unit and three decent benefits. It frees up enough points for 4 storm shields (3+ invul. save, this includes one on captain), 3 combi-gravs for those Tau monstrous creatures and a built in Feel No Pain for the squad and Captain. Oh and they had enough points for jumps packs too:).

The fact is, when this squad makes an appearance, his riptide will get his insane 9 shot plasma equivalent shots (it has interceptor). In my experience against Tau, armor can be a fickle thing since so many weapons nullify it at close range. And that's right where this unit will sit for one turn, hopefully right next to him.

Oh! I took away the Razorback and added a Vindicator also. Let me know your thoughts.

Flesh Tearer's Strike Force

HQ
- 175 pts

Captain - 175 pts
- Artificer Armor, Iron Halo, storm shield, Jump Pack, Valor's Edge, Veritas Vitae, Warlord

Elites - 655 pts

Furioso Dreadnought - 190 pts
- Magna-Grapple, Frag Cannon, Heavy Flammer
- Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Deathwind Missile Launcher, Locator Beacon

5 Command Squad - 185 pts
- Jump Packs, 3x Combi-Grav, 3x Storm Shield, 1x power sword, Narthecium (FnP)

10 Death Company - 280
- 10x Bolter, 8x chain Sword, 2x PW Fists, Jump Packs

Troops 325 pts

Cassor the Damned - 190 pts
- Blood Talons, Built-In Metla, Storm Bolter

Tactical Squad - 135 pts
- 5 marines, Lascannon
- Dedicated Transport: Rhino

Fast Attack - 85 pts

Drop Pod - 50 pts (Cassor Transport)
- Deathwind Missile LauncherDrop Pod

Drop Pod - 35 pts
- Storm Bolter

Heavy Support - 260

Predator - 125 pts
- Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Overcharged engines

Vindicator - 135 pts
- Demolisher Cannon, Over Charges engines, Dozer Blade

Total = 1500
 

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I have a friend who plays Tau as well. His list is no doubt different from what your friend plays, but here's what I've learned over the years. You'll have three main types of targets you'll have to deal with. First one is cover camping t3 4+ or 5+ squads, such as pathfinders or firewarriors. Pathfinders should be the first things to go, so you should have something to deal with those guys. Whirlwinds could work nicely since they ignore cover and pathfinder armor, but you are using up a heavy support slot. Podding fragioso dreads might work well do, but you run the risk of not being in range (bubble wrap, per say). The same thing can be accomplished with a squad of 10 tactical marines with heavy flamer, flamer and combi or hand flamers in a drop pod with deathwind launcher. Thatll get you up close, give you your required troop choice and give you some nice anti-infantry. However, it runs the same risk of not being able to deal with a unit bubblewraping your target. The second type of target is going to be the suit type units such as crisis, broadside and riptide battlesuits. These guys are frustrating because they're typically surrounded by drones as meatshields and can jump shoot jump to mitigate damage. For these guys, I like to use things like sternguard vets for their ammo versatility (maybe some combi-plasma or grav to cut through 2+ armor). Psychic shreiking librarians also work well, since tau generally lack psychic defense. JP death co will do very well. Charge up a flank, hit a crisis suit squad or something and watch them evaporate. You have the right idea about putting pressure on his units early on, and something thats crucial is that you'll have to do it with your entire army at the same time. I've found tau can easily kill whatever they markerlight, but its limited by how much they can markerlight, so they'll only be able to reliably kill a few units a turn (which also means redundancy!). Get in his face, have some things die, and hit him hard with whatevers left. The third unit type is his vehicles. 13 12 10 vehicles with a 3+ jink are frustratingly tough, so you're going to need to either 1) bring enough heavy anti-tank to get through his cover save or 2) bring ignores cover anti-tank weaponry. Since your army should be built to be fast and in his face, multi-melta attack bikes are something to look at. I can't think of anything in the BA dex that has ignores cover weaponry, but you could consider allying in a squad or two of legion of the damned and equip them with multi melta, melta gun and combi melta. very solid squad for ~150 points, and the ignores cover rerolling deepstriking melta weaponry is beyond useful. But also keep in mind if he's jinking he'll be shooting snap shots, which more or less tanks his tanks out for a turn (or means he uses marker lights to buff their BS and not to ignore cover). Some general things to watch out for is tau are able to spam a lot of ap2 weaponry, so definitely bring a sang priest. You can't rely on cover considering how easily its stripped by the markerlights, but you definitely should still put all your units in cover to make him use his markerlights for ignores cover and not for the +BS bonus. See if you can split up his force, to mitigate the overwatch tau can get. Hope this helps!
-Arcticor
 

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Tactical Squad - 135 pts
- 5 marines, Lascannon
- Dedicated Transport: Rhino
Why not Assault marines in a Pod with whatever weapons make you happy? Command squad's a good choice in this new list I think.

I can't think of anything in the BA dex that has ignores cover weaponry
It's a sad state of affairs outside of frag cannons. I wish something else, basically anything else from our Codex, could take some version of the frag cannon.
 
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