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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Any good?

CCS - 4 Meltas (Vendetta)

CCS - Autocannon - Chimera ML/HB

PCS - 4 Flamers

3 x Troop Squads - Autocannon

Vets Squad - Demolitions/3 x Meltas (Vendetta)

2 x Vendettas

1 x LR Executioner - Plasma Sponsons/HBolter

1 x LR Demolisher - Plasma Sponsons/Lascannon

1 x LR Vanquisher - Lascannon (Pask)

1495pts

So the idea is that I have an alpha strike with vets and melta hq in vendettas if I go first. I will then either force my opponent to stay off the board or be destroyed which gives me more time to shoot vehicles - hence the long range vanquisher with Pask and 4 x Autocannons. The Executioner and demolisher can then deal with any infantry/Meq/Termies that deploy or DS.

If I go 2nd then I should still be able to outshoot most armies and can outflank the Vendettas where needed with super melta power that is inside them. This also forces the enemy to the middle of the board where I can position my Demolisher for max effect.

BTW the PCS will sit behind the big blob of troops and if anything comes close they can burn em! The CCS can sit in the chimera and act as a pillbox next to the platoon giving orders and stopping them fall back.

My only issue at the mo is the Vanquisher. Lots of points but could be good for high armour vehicles. My alternative is a normal LR with Lascannon and 55 points Spare to spend elsewhere (commissar for main squad maybe)

What do you guys think?
 

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Not bad mate, not bad.

The things I would change would be to get rid of the Panquisher and replace it with a Manticore - pretty much as good for dealing with AV14, better range, non-LOS and can deal with hordes as well... not to mention its much cheaper points cost.

The Vendettas are a strange one, as you'd probably be better off deploying them on the board at the start and be shooting at the enemy from turn 1; the Valkyrie's are a better transport option as you don't lose as much critical firepower from having them outflank, then unload the troops...
 

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I'd change quit some things, but the question is if you want that.

So take my advise as well intended en see what you can do with it.

*The quad melta CCS is excellent. I'd add an astropath to be able to keep everyting in reserve if you don't get to go first, or if you know your opponent has 'tricks' up his sleeve. Think daemons, outflnking armies, etc. (+30pts)

*The second CCS is a shame. All that great BS4 wasted on just an autocannon? If you want autocannons with AV12 protection just buy the ultra cheap hydra! I'd drop this unit and spent the points elsewhere. (-115pts)

*PCS with quad flamer is excellent. I'd give them the chimera I just saved above. (Always go with multi laser/heavy flamer.) That way you can really move/unload/flame anything coming close. (And you can still order from inside, if you want.) (+55pts)

*3 squads with autocannon is once again an excellent choice, but these guys really need on commissar to be an imposing blob squad. That way you have high Ld and your stubborn. You might even consider 'hidden' powerweapons if you get assaulted a lot. (+35pts)

*2 vendettas are awesome. Just remember they'll be on the back of the field sniping armour with their melta squads... I'd buy the CCS and melta vets a chimera each. Then when you really need it aphastrike them and use the chimeras as cover/pillboxes, whatever. (+110)

*An executioner is nice (although very expensive in 1500pts), so be carefull. I'd give it a heavy flamer (you don't want HB shots to be abused for wound allocation) for some close up crowd control. (And only use it after all plasma weapons are gone or the enemy has a 4+ or worse save.) And I'd give it a dozer blade. I've had such bad experience lately with 1's ruining perfectly good tanks. Terrain is also nice for claiming a 4+ cover save. (+10pts)

* A demolisher is nice, but it's short ranged. You'll likely move a lot not using your plasma cannons optimaly. I'd drop those, drop the lascannon for a heavy flamer and take a dozer blade again. The tank becomes cheaper and more expendable. (-45pts)

*Vanquisher with pask... damn that's a lot of points. I'd drop it for a third russ (LRBT) or a manticore. The LRBT gives you long range S8 AP3 against light armour and MEQ. Three AV14 tanks will overload your opponents anti-tank. The Manticore offers great S10 templates against hordes and armour alike. The AV12 should be shielded with russes or chimera's. You should save some 50 or 60 points here.

Depending on the type of missions you play... you might be lacking some troops. The blob squad is a 'stay at home' squad. You only have the melta vets and PCS as claiming/mobile troop choices. That will lose you most claiming missions. (Or you'll draw... which is not a win... which feel like a loss...)

So looking back you're taking a lot of tanks/planes and not enough troops. You could take a cheap SWS with 3 flamers at 50pts. Just chuck them in a vendetta and last-turn-claim. (Or 2 flamers and 1 democharge at 65pts.)

I'd probably play something like this:
CCS w/ 4 meltaguns, astropath, chimera @ 175pts
Vets w/ 3 meltaguns, chimera @ 155pts
PCS w/ 4 flamers @ 50pts
Inf. squad w/ AC, commissar @ 95pts
Inf. squad w/ AC @ 60pts
Inf. squad w/ AC @ 60pts
SWS w/ 2 flamers, 1 democharge @ 65pts
Vendetta w/ 3 twin-linked lascannons @ 130pts
Vendetta w/ 3 twin-linked lascannons @ 130pts
Leman Russ Executioner w/ plasma sponsons, heavy flamer, dozer blade @ 240pts (ouch)
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ heavy flamer, dozer blade @ 175pts
Manticore w/ storm eagle rockets @ 160pts
Total: 65 models, incl 7 vehicles, 12 kill points @ 1495pts

The PCS and SWS go inside the vendettas and flame/nuke stuff that gets close. At the end of the game the vendettas (if still flying) turboboost and claim objectives. The CCS and vets are mobile tankbusters and the vets claim objectives. The blob squad just sits and shoots also acting as tarpit when stuff wants to assault your armour. The tanks just blast away at anything.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks ImperialProtector and Bishop5.

A couple of my thoughts:

- I really like the 2nd CCS as they can just sit in the chimera and use the BS4 of the autocannon effectively. However their main use is to give the T/L order to the 3 x Autocannon troop squad so i believe their points are worthwhile.
- Astropath - great idea!!
- Commissar in the 'blob' 30 man squad , i apologise, i forgot to put him in!!! I always run the commissar with those guys!!
- Tanks. I feel i need as much Plasma as possible with the amount of MeQ armies out there - particularly now BA and SW are so powerful. So 2 tanks and 7 plasma blasts plus the demo cannon i dont think i would change, i have had some success with them especially against DS SS/TH Termies. However the Vanquisher....... Nobody seems to like it and i'm not sure. I have played only 3 games with it and hit nothing so far, even with Pask. I know its alot of points but it must be good at getting rid of AV14 stuff. You guys both recommend the Manticore which is really interesting as i have never even thought about it. My main issues with the Manticore are 12/10/10 and AP4 - neither are good with so many marines and las/auto cannons running around. Dont know, maybe i should playtest a bit. Also it is the same points (ish) as a normal russ with lascannon which would last longer and is AP3......

So:

CCS - 4 Meltas (Chimera ML/HB) - 145

PCS - 4 Flamers - 50

3 x Troop Squads - Autocannon - Commissar - 215

SWS w/ 2 flamers, 1 democharge - 65pts

Vets Squad - Demolitions/3 x Meltas (Vendetta - Alpha Strike) - 130

2 x Vendettas - 260

1 x LR Executioner - Plasma Sponsons/HBolter - 230

1 x LR Demolisher - Plasma Sponsons/Lascannon - 220

1 x LRBT - Lascannon - 165

1480pts

20 points left

Any better?
 

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- Astropath - great idea!!
Astropaths should be in every list that has Vendettas in it, period...far too useful in its application to get board edge etc

- Tanks. I feel i need as much Plasma as possible with the amount of MeQ armies out there - particularly now BA and SW are so powerful. So 2 tanks and 7 plasma blasts plus the demo cannon i dont think i would change, i have had some success with them especially against DS SS/TH Termies.
Executioner and Demolisher are in my top 3 Russ varients, although I usually leave Sponsons off the latter due to its propensity to get assaulted, due to been so short-ranged..mobility helps a lot. The Exey needs Sponson Plasma to rack up the impressive kill-count it has..the extra 40 pts spent is so cheap for the amount of points it kills it's rediculous.

the Vanquisher....... Nobody seems to like it and i'm not sure. I have played only 3 games with it and hit nothing so far, even with Pask. I know its alot of points but it must be good at getting rid of AV14 stuff.
Nah, it really is a poor choice and will disappoint far more often than it will surprise you. I have 2 of the (suck)ers but only use them in Apoc, which is where they were relegated to after 20-odd games in which they shone maybe twice/3 times.

Manticore - which is really interesting as i have never even thought about it. My main issues with the Manticore are 12/10/10 and AP4 - neither are good with so many marines and las/auto cannons running around. Dont know, maybe i should playtest a bit. Also it is the same points (ish) as a normal russ with lascannon which would last longer and is AP3......
A Russ doesn't really last as long as Artillery I've found as both usually get wiped out in c/c, and seen as they're both rear AV10 (some are AV11) isn't going to help much in that regard. At range sure a Russ is tougher to destroy because of AV14, but what a lot of people don't realise about Artillery is that it only needs to survive for a turn or 2 to do a ton of damage, and quite often far more than a Russ will do all game. Plus 'blob' infantry does a decent job at protecting Artillery quite effectively.

The Manticore is best used against other Mech lists because when a Chimera or Rhino is destroyed all the disembarked units are easy pickings for a multiple blast weapon. It can also crack Land Raiders (S10) and at long range, which is great if it's filled with assaulty Termies. Also having multiple blasts does mitigate the lack of AP3 against MEQ so it's not useless against them.

So:

CCS - 4 Meltas (Chimera ML/HB) - 145

PCS - 4 Flamers - 50

3 x Troop Squads - Autocannon - Commissar - 215

SWS w/ 2 flamers, 1 democharge - 65pts

Vets Squad - Demolitions/3 x Meltas (Vendetta - Alpha Strike) - 130

2 x Vendettas - 260

1 x LR Executioner - Plasma Sponsons/HBolter - 230

1 x LR Demolisher - Plasma Sponsons/Lascannon - 220

1 x LRBT - Lascannon - 165

1480pts

20 points left

Any better?
For the 20 pts what about GL's in the Infantry as it does gel quite well with the AC's, plus has a decent range. Or HB's on the Vendettas as 10 pts for 2 HB's is cheap as chips, plus gives it some Infantry targets once all the enemy's armour is gone.

I love that you have the PCS/SWS in the Vendettas, Vets not so much. Yes it's brilliant if it works, but the Vendetta is usually destroyed when used as a first turn transport, which means the Vets are wiped out soon after..still some find it an acceptable risk.

Overall a great list, best of luck with it:victory:
 

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*whispers* "You forgot the astropath again."

Your lastest list is really nice. Some choices I wouldn't make, but that might be personal preference, or a different meta-game environment.

1) You really do need that astropath. [Even if you never outflank, it's just too good to keep everyting in reserve and roll on with a 3+ in turn 2. I've now done this 4+ times and each time all but 2 units came on. Each time my opponent had to rally from the refused flank trick. Costing them time/firepower/focus and therefore the game.]

2) The melta-vets need a chimera. [You could still deploy them in a vendetta if you want to alpha-strike a tank. The chimera could then be used by the PCS. I use the CCS to alphastrike because of the extra meltagun and the twin-link order.]

3) Change the LRBT to a manticore. [The manticore can setup out of LOS and stay alive. The enemy will much sooner target your executioner which is closer and even more threatning. you could hide the manticor behind the chimeras and tanks. That S10 2d6 (pick the highest) is awesome against S14 armour. Remember that barrage hits the side armour against tanks!]

I'd drop the demolitions (-30pts) , dump the lascannons on your tanks (-30pts), take 3 flamers in the SWS (-15pts) and use those with the 20pts you already had to buy the astropath and chimera. Leaves you with 10pts. That could get you the suggested manticore instead of the LRBT.

Those (small) changes would make for in impressive (allround) list.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry forgot the astropath!
I really like the demo on the vets with the vendetta as i can scout move and assault into enemy armour if I have 1st turn. 10 x meltabombs at 2D6 possibly multi-assaulting vehicles either destroys them or keeps em off the board providing me with more turns of long range fire at a drip fed army!! I would never have the vets in the vendetta to first turn strike, the vendetta is too important to lose!!
I will try the manticore though it sounds interesting.

So....

CCS - 4 meltas/Astropath - Chimera ML/HB - 175

PCS - 4 Flamers - 50

3 x Troops - Autocannon/Commissar - 215

SWS - 3 x Flamers - 50

Veterans - Demolitions - 3 x Meltas 130

2 x Vendettas - 260

Leman Russ Executioner - Plasma Sponsons/HB - 230

Leman Russ Demolisher - Plasma Sponsons/Lascannon - 220

Manticore - HB - 160

Total - 1490 (I think - I am doing this in my head on my phone!)

I do love my plasma on my tanks and you can never have enough lascannons so I have kept them over another chimera but this may be a mistake...
 

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Looks good.
On the Manticore I don't know any IG'ers who don't take them, and I'm talking 50+ of them..talking about all-comers lists here though, but it's the most effective Artillery piece in the Codex.

You probably have the HB's glued on, but they're not as good as HF's overall as a single template will wound more than a 3-shot BS3 weapon will do all game (almost).
On the Executioner I would take a Hull Lascannon, then all the weapons are AP2.
 

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@ hocky

How many times have you had an alphastrike as you describe it?

Firstly, I'm talking about scouting to 12.1" of an enemy with your vendetta. (Then getting into an argument about 12" minimum distance and measuring to the base or to the hull of the vendetta. If you use the hull you won't be able to get out within assault range.)

Secondly, an enemy will have to be a bit of a tosser to not see that alphastrike coming. If he just shields his armour with a meatshield you wont be able to get that meltabomb assault either.

Personally I've never had the change to demo-alphastrike, but maybe that's my meta-game. If you can get those, good on ya.

@ Hobo,

As I mention above you can scout to 12.1" if you intended alphastrike target. How do you measure that distance? From the base of the model, or from the hull (which sticks out quit a bit in front of the base)? Just curious how everybody seems to be able to alphastrike those demo-vets. (Overhere, no way. You measure to the hull, so no 2+12" exit/assault.

Greetz
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@ Hobo

The more i look the more i like the Manticore so will be interesting to try and no glue here so can switch out the HB's for HF's no problem. My thought was that if anyone gets that close i am in trouble but likewise if anyone gets that close i'll need those HF's! You're right i only took the LC off the executioner for the points so i'll prob drop a flamer on the PCS and have the LC on the tank.


@ Imperial Protector

I have used the alphastrike a couple of times and you're absolutely right on a couple of counts. I can disembark from an access point directly underneath it so you can gain an inch on the disembark to put you within the 12" assault range. Also even if my opponent isnt a tosser and sees it coming as you said he either will have to meatshield his army or not deploy vehicles/deploy them a long way back. In any case he is now reacting to me and my army and i am dictating the deployment of the battle which arguably is one of the key points of the game. If he meat shields and i go first i now have alot of shooting to take out that meatshield which will be in the open. If he doesnt deploy then i have long range shooting for more turns. On the odd occassion i get an alpha strike i take a Land Raider out! Also i have the option of dropping the vets off in the middle of the table in cover so if any transports do want to drive through they can act as a speed bump to take them out or make the transports go the long way around which again provides me with more shooting.
My only issue with Vets and meltas in chimeras is that if i get the chimeras in melta range i am invariably too close to the enemy and get mauled in CC. I like the idea of taking my CCS with meltas in a Chimera as they can protect my line if things do get too close.
Do these ideas sound ok or am i missing a very big point??!
 

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@ Hobo,

As I mention above you can scout to 12.1" if you intended alphastrike target. How do you measure that distance? From the base of the model, or from the hull (which sticks out quit a bit in front of the base)? Just curious how everybody seems to be able to alphastrike those demo-vets. (Overhere, no way. You measure to the hull, so no 2+12" exit/assault.
Well first off I don't do the whole alphastrike with Vets in Vendettas because I prefer to leave them back at range sniping away until late game, and then I move in and drop off my SWS/PCS etc to grab objectives...I prefer Chimeras for my Vets.

As far as first turn alphastrikes go it's pretty tricky I reckon to get it to work smoothly..must get first turn, enemy must actually deploy a decent target and not just reserve everything, and your movement/measuring needs to be to the nth degree precise.

Measuring-wise for vehicles it's all done from the Hull, but disembarking units use the Vendetta's base (IG pdf), so move flat out (Scout move), disembark 2" from base then move 6", plus there's the 1" base diameter.

That 1" gained at disembarkment that I believe hocky is talking about comes from angling the Vendetta so you get the benefit from the model's shape..the large corner between the wing and the nose (sounds beardy but I see tons of players do it - try it out for yourself).

Anyway, in the end you end up within range of the MG's and in assault range as well....I hope that makes sense, sometimes I have trouble being concise and waffle on too much:blush:
 

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"... In any case he is now reacting to me and my army and i am dictating the deployment ..."
THAT is a very good argument indeed. It's true that just the fear of receiving that alphastrike will influence the deployment of your opponent. At 30pts it's a good price to pay for 'the fear factor'. (If you can spare the points.)

I actually have a 1700pts list here for the on coming Dutch GT and taking demolitions, instead of 3 dozer blades, is one of the few options I can still consider for that list. In hitting power that swap would improve the list, but with tank squadrons you really don't want 'immobilised' results.

Good list, enjoy playing it!

@ Hobo

I understand the movement 'trick' and you could get a shoot/assault. But after your scout move, there is the threat of a 'seize the innitiative' 6 that will ruine your day/game!

@ Hobo/Hocky

How do you guys feel about claiming a coversave in turn 1 after turboboosting in the scout movement phase?

Greetz
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Agreed the seize the initiative hurts!! its happened before - hence 2 x vendettas!!!
With the scout cover save - i have never played it that way as that seems really harsh but i couldnt find anything in the rules that says you cant, yet i cant find anything that says you can either. i'll be interested to see what you think Hobo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes its in the FAQ here it is ImperialProtector:

Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the
Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook with the following exception: For the
purposes of contesting objectives and
embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or
Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base.
For example, models wishing to embark within a
Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their
movement, all models within the unit are within
2" of the Valkyrie’s base.
 
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