[Mattarias]

Hail Heretics. I know, second real post, probably silly to do here, but eh, I figure I might as well. This is my current 1500 point list, made to take all comers. ...Well, except psykers I guess, but I don't face many of those. The Saint is my primary reason for playing at this point level, and I know she ca be a pain, but with Seraphim she's a real nightmare to.. Well, anything.

Also, I can't quite find the points for that third rhino. Though the footslogging sisters have actually come in handy.

Thoughts?

Living Saint
201 Points

Sisters x 10
-Veteran Superior
--Power Weapon
--Brazier of Holy Fire
--Book of St. Lucius
-Flamer x 1
-Hv. Flamer x1
--Imagifier
188 Points

Sisters x 10
-Veteran Superior
--Power Weapon
--Brazier of Holy Fire
--Book of St. Lucius
-Flamer x 1
-Hv. Flamer x1
--Imagifier
188 Points

^Rhino
-Smoke Launchers
-Extra Armor
58 Points

Sisters x 10
-Veteran Superior
--Power Weapon
--Brazier of Holy Fire
--Book of St. Lucius
-Flamer x 1
-Hv. Flamer x1
--Imagifier
188 Points

^Rhino
-Smoke Launchers
-Extra Armor
58 Points

Dominions x 6
-Veteran Superior
--Power Weapon
--Combi-Melta
--Book of St. Lucius
-Meltas x 4
-Melta Bombs x6
--Imagifier
199 Points

^Immolator
-Holy Promethium
-Smoke Launchers
-Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
88 Points

Seraphim x 6
-Veteran Superior
--Power Weapon
--Bolt Pistol
--Book of St. Lucius
-Hand Flamers x 2
172 Points

Exorcist
-Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
-Extra Armor
-Hunter-Killer Missile
150 Points

1500

 

[Azezel]

There are a lot of - if not exactly 'wasted', then inefeciantly spent points in your list - I beleive we can scrape up enough for that Rhino.


Personally, I don't like Celestine - lovelly model and not a terrible unit, but she just doesn't do it for me - if you like her than you take her and best of British luck.

Concerning Troops:

The Brazier of Holy Fire / Combi-Flamer debate. For me, there is no debate. The Brazier nets you one additional attack in Assault - but Sisters are plain bad in Assault and nothing will alter that - the Combi-Flamer is so much more effective and Divine Guided Bolters are our bread and butter.
Play to your strengths and choose the Combi-Flamer.

An Imaginifer is rarely worth it in a Battle sister squad. Ten women will pull of Divine Guidance very reliably and only have to loose three before Spirit of the Martyr becomes easy. Those points could be much better spent.

I think you'd find things much easier with a Meltagun in your Battle Sister squads, instead of that regular Flamer. It's something of a matter of taste, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Same goes for Meltabombs for the VSS.

I also like to hand out Eviscerators to 1/2 to 3/4 of my Sisters Superior - so useful, so cool.


You might loose the Power Weapon from your Dominion squad - it has only limited usefulness there (An Eviscerator on the other hand...). Same goes for the Imaginifer.

Dominions with Flamers benefit from an Imaginifer, as do Retributors with Heavy Bolters - but it's dificult to see what Act of Faith 6 Sisters with AP1 weapons need help with.

Lose the Holy Promethium. Hardly ever worth it, no matter how cool the concept is.

Nothing wrong with your Seraphim, though Meltabombs can be a bag of fun for them!

Exorcist is okay too - you'll want another, but I understand it's not as easy as that.


This is all sounding very negetive, but that's the nature of an army list thread. I can only list flaws (and I have been wrong before).

The assumption is that you are looking for something optimised - if you have a theme, like I do then you do it and don't let anyone tell you not to.


Long story short: Loose the Imaginifers, add Meltaguns and a Rhino.

 

[Mattarias]

Thanks Azezel. I'll try that out when my last rhino arrives. I understand the nature of this forum as one meant for optimization- Perhaps I should have added that this was, indeed, a themed list. That theme being that the Order of the Burning Tear like their heretics extra crispy and en masse. But you have some very good points, especially about the Imagifiers.

Can I just give the VSS bombs, and not the entire squad? Might be some good backup..

The Dominion VSS can't use an eviscerator due to carrying a combimelta, which I think is all-around better, due to not having to deal with melee-ing walkers. Like you said, Sisters suck in close combat.

The torches are again, part of the fire theme. I've used combi-flamers before, but they failed to impress me. Especially against armies where the strategy against them is "charge before you get charged". But maybe I'm just not that tactically minded.

Again, I'll definitely try out some of these changes next time I play. Especially when I get my last rhino. Another exorcist would be nice, too. Might convert one up.

 

[Azezel]

Regular Battle Sisters may not be given Meltabombs at all, only the VSS may - and it is good backup.

There's nothing wrong with a combi-Melta for your Dominion VSS, I stand by what I said about the Power Sword though, close combat is just not her job - except against walkers and vehicles, and for that you need a 'viscerator. If you like the combi-melta (and it is good) consider loosing the power sword (or at least the 'power' bit - a regular sword coats a mere one point).

As for the Braziers - as I said - there is a debate about which is better. I am convinced that it's the combi-flamer, but I believe I also said that I'd been wrong before...

since your VSS have power weapons it stacks up like this:

Brazier:
1 extra Power Weapon attack in close combat

Combi-Flamer:
2 extra Bolter Shots (potentially ap1) in Shooting.

Statistically, with Divine Guidance the Combi-Flamer (alone) will kill .37 Space Marines per turn shooting rapid-fire. The Brazier (alone) will kill .1666 Space Marines per turn in Assault.

Without Divine Guidance the bolter will still kill .22222 Space Marines per turn

Both give you one flamer attack per battle, but one kills 2.2 times more Space Marines in non-flamer mode.


I present the statistics because an informed descision is likely to be a wise one (also, I like maths), however, your theme is more important than brute probability.

I defy anyone to tell the difference between .1666 and .37 in the middle of a game.

 

[Mattarias]

Hahah, wow, I didn't know those statistics. Good point. But yeah, Mathhammer tends to fall apart pretty quickly on the table. I'll try some stuff out.

Good point on the power sword though. I just figured 9 or so points is worth it in order to add more anti-MEQ to the army. But those points are likely better spent on a rhino, yeah.

 

[Churlton]

Azezel has it; lose the power weapons, lose all the imagifers (useful for Dominions, but not melta Dominions), that will fund the Rhino.
combi-weapons are great for VSS (I am going to extend that to my SM).
I also beleive in the footslogger SoB, but use any odd pts to add to 15ish each squad.
I personally prefer th Hflamer/melta combo in every Battle Sisters squad, the versatility is more than useful.
And Celestine tag-teamed with flame Seraphim is great.

The themed approach is also essential or we just see the 2/3 Exorcists, 2x HBolter Rets and cannon fodder. The limit on characters forces us to the Saint (Karamizov needs diluting that FP goodness (I do like Karamizov though, and run him with a Vindicare & Repentia ,,,, purely fluff ... not efficient)).

Plenty of "grunt" Sisters .... I like that.
Trim some of the points, add mobility and SoB.
2 Exorcists do work though.

Good luck

 

[Vengeful_Saint]

My only question is that you are going to run the Saint with Seraphim. I'm sure you are but I know a couple idiots that like to play her as a stand alone run at the closet troop bomb. Because that would be a very poor choice. I'm sure you are running her with them. So good list, the only thing I have a problem with is...the Exorcist as much as I don't want to say this.. might not be the best choice I mean yes they are our best tank but it's a heavy 150 pts i'm not sure whether you need more rhinos or more seraphim... I'm on the bench on his one your call.