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Irn Bru 32!
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Hq - Preator
- paragon blade
- bolter
- iron halo
- melta bombs
- 157 points

Elites - Apothecary (detachment)
- power sword
- augury scanner

- apothecary
- power sword
- augury scanner

- total points - 120

Elites - Contemptor dread talon

- dread 1 - twin kheres auto cannons

- dread 2 - heavy bolter and close combat arm with bolter

- total points - 380

Troops - 20 space marines
- sergeant has power sword and bolter
- melta bombs
- legion vexilla
- artificer armor
- 285 points

Troops - 20 space marines
- sergeant has power sword and bolter
- melta bombs
- legion vexilla
- artificer armor
- 285 points

troops - Legion Tactical Support Squad
- 10 marines
- 9 Volkite Calivers
- Sergeant has a Power Weapon, Augury Scanner and Melta Bombs
- 237 points

This is my first pre heresy army list, so if someone could give me ideas to boost this to 1750 points.

Regards, nacho
 

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Hey Nacho, great to see another IIIrd legion player. As for your list, at less than 2000 points I don't tend to include a Praetor. Our unique Rite of War isn't great and none of the others particularly help your list. If you still want to take him I would give him a retinue of some form.

If you wanted to stick with a Praetor, I'd take:

Praetor + Paragon Blade + Boarding Shield + Iron Halo + Sonic Shriekers = 160 points

As a bare minimum. The Paragon Blade is a must, and I like the Iron Halo. Sonic Shriekers give you +1I on 1st round of combat and boarding shield makes your opponent lose their +1A for charging.

With him I would probably throw the command squad he gets, but bolstered up to 5 men strong and all with Phoenix Spears. Put them in a Land Raider/Caestus Assault Ram and let them kill things.

Whatever you do, Praetors and their units should be choppy machines and should have a transport IMO. If you want utility HQs, take a Centurion.

I don't take Power Weapons on my Apothecaries. That's not what they're there for. I know we have to accept and issue challenges, but if you have CC weapons on your sergeants already, you should be fine in challenges. If you really want, spend those 10 points each on artificer armour. It'll keep them (and therefore your squads' Feel No Pain) alive longer.

I think you'd be better served with two Mortis Contemptors over the Dreadnought Talon you have there. For one thing, a Mortis Contemptor with 2 Kheres is 180 points, so 2 is 360 points which is 20 points cheaper than the total for your two Dreadnoughts. Plus, if they stay still, they get Skyfire and Interceptor. Sure they can pound MEQ squads to mulch with their fists, but it gives you some much needed AA and 24 B5, S6, Rending shots will hurt just about anything very badly.

The Tactical Squads look pretty solid. I wouldn't put Melta-bombs in those squads unless I had points to spare. If you want Melta-bombs, give them to the Praetor and Command Squad as they'll be running forward.

I would change the Tactical Support Squad for a Heavy Weapons Squad with Volkite Culverins. Mainly because both are heavy weapons, but, Culverins are Heavy 4 not 2 and have a longer range and so can more easily fulfil a support role. I mean, for the same price as that unit you can have:

Heavy Weapons Squad + 1 additional marine + 6 Volkite Culverins + Augury Scanner = 225

Which gives you 24 shots instead of 18.

As for increasing points up to 1750, I would advise some dedicated anti-tank/TEQ, since your list is lacking that at the moment. I would advise some Heavy Support Squads with Lascannons for tanks and possibly some Exterminator Preds for TEQ. Either that, or for TEQ you could just trust weight of fire from your Tacticals and Heavy Support Squads. I would give your Praetor a retinue of similarly killy folks and a transport, although at anything under 2k I'd take a Centurion as they are probably better value and free up some space to take other things.

Hope that all helps :)
 

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Alright then, I don't know what you want from your Centurion so I'll break down each Consul and then discuss the wargear for a "standard" Centurion:

Chaplain

So Zealot is nice in, say, a Phoenix Guard unit on the charge, a 20 man assault/reaver squad or another close combat unit, but the fact that he only has an AP4 power maul which you can't exchange hurts the Chaplain's personal combat abilities against MEQs. In the right squad, his buff with make the 35 points you spend on him worth while, but I would keep him as bear bones as possible and leave him at the back of the squad, driving them on (as he should be).

Master of Signal

Definitely not a close combat Centurion. Most of his combat options are limited and he doesn't add much if anything to a front line squad. However, he has an augury scanner (giving you 18" no infiltrate bubble and 18" interceptor on all Rapid fire and Heavy weapons), Night Fighting, can draw line of sight for other barrage weapons and can buff a unit withing 6" with +1 BS. Another bare-bones Centurion you slap in a 10 man heavy weapons squad, keep at your back and tear your enemies to shreds.

And a D3 S8 AP3, Large Blast, Barrage once a game helps too!

Legion Champion

+1 WS and a single weapon gains Master Crafted. For Emperor's Children, the "Must accept challenges" is moot, since we have to do that any way. If he was 10-15 points, I'd consider it, but it's not worth it for 35 points IMO.

Vigilator

+1 to cover saves, Scout, Sniper, special ammo, and the potential to gain Infiltrate and Move Through Cover (at the price of a 4+ save) is...well it's ok. Scout is good for, well, scouting some unit forward. Synergises well with recon squads (obviously). Plus the Sabotage! ability is nice too, although it likely won't do much. Potentially kill one or two MEQs or a Rhino, but not much else. However, as with Master of Signal, his combat options are severely limited.

All in all, IMO rather lack luster, and I don't think worth it. If you want to scout a unit forward, buy them a Rhino. They cost about the same.

Librarian

I like Librarians a lot! They aren't very fluffy for an Emperor's Children army (since they're 'imperfect') but they are damn cool. They don't have a Psychic Hood like they're 40k counterparts which sort-of hurts, but not much. Since only their chainblade/combat blade is replace with a force weapon, you can replace it's bolt pistol with another close combat weapon (I like Force Axe + Lightning Claw. Both Specialist Weapons for +1 A. Then you can either use AP 3 Claw for MEQ or AP 2 Axe for TEQ). Plus, they can have up to 3 Mastery Levels and can have them in any discipline.

Now the bad news. First, and biggest is the cost. For a Mastery Level 3 Librarian it'll cost you 85 points, before further upgrades. So the cost can rack up quickly. And if you pay that much, a 2W character is a bit fragile. Second is not so bad, but you have to generate all your powers from a single discipline. No mixing and matching. However, all in all I think Librarians are great and I a more and more tempted to include one and damn the fluff!

Forge Lord

Basically a Techmarine HQ. More options (as they have both the options for a Centurion and a Tehcmarine) and can repair tanks. Nothing to write home about, but still pretty good.

Primus Medicae

Gives FNP to a unit and gives you a 1/3 chance of getting a victory point whenever your opponent kills a unit you are within 6" of. It can be aligned to any unit, so is more versatile than a regular Apothecary and can have all the close combat options that a "standard" Centurion can have. If you just want FNP, buy a regular Apothecary, it's only 10 points more. If you want your Centurion and his unit to be a bit more survivable while they're chopping things to mince-meat, I'd say he's worth it...just.

Siege Breaker

Basically, you buy him bare bones and then LOTS of Legion Medusas and laugh as you throw around obscene amounts of AP 2 pie-plates.

Moritat

His CC weapon options are limited and the only way he can move faster is with a Jump pack. He can only join Destroyer squads and can't be the compulsory HQ. Only one thing save him; Chain Fire. Basically, he's BS 5 and he keeps firing his pistol until he misses with it. This happens with both pistols. So, you can give him two plasma pistols, score an average of 10 hits and watch the best part of a TEQ squad disappear in a turn. Which is cool as hell. The problem is once he does that, he can't fire next turn. Plus you could be unlucky and only land like 3 hits before the Chain-fire dies. Alternatively, you could be really lucky and score like 30 hits.

People say he's broken, and in a way he his. But he's also easy to eliminate and has to be on the front lines for his ability to be worth anything. Plus, you have to buy another HQ as well as him to have a Bound army and he can only hide in a 3+ armour squad, meaning if you try to give him a 2+ armour to protect him, he can be Focus Fired out.

All in all, a neat broken ability, but situational at best and, IMO, nothing to write home about.

So, I don't know what abilities you want in your army, but that's my breakdown of all of the options. Now for wargear:

For an Emperor's Children Centurion we have the nice option of a Phoenix Spear, which is +1S, AP 2 at initiative on the charge. Since we have to challenge, this is probably one of the best options. It relies on you getting the charge, but I don't think Centurions and their squads, generally, should be taking on TEQ squads. If you think you will, a fist or an axe would serve you best, but I always go with the Spear for cutting down pesky Sergeants/other Centurions and leave the TEQs to be mown down by disciplined fire from my other squads :laugh:

Sonic Shriekers are a must. +1I to the Centurion and his squad on the 1st round of combat (whether they charge or not) is great value for 5 points.

Artificer armour I always include because I don't trust 3+ saves.

As for invulnerable saves, there are really two options: Boarding Shield or Refractor Field. The Boarding Shield is only a 6++ from shooting and a 5++ in combat, but it does give the Centurion and the squad defensive grenades, meaning if they are charged their opponent's don't gain +1A. Plus, you have the potential to blind a unit instead of shooting, but TBH it was better in 6th ed when defensive grenades gave you Shrouding. Refractor field is a 5++ all the time, but no defensive grenades. If you have the points, buy both, but if not I would personally opt for the boarding shield as it benefits more people and just try not to get your Centurion shot by AP weapons (things like hiding them in large squads or Look Out Sir! help).

Melta-bombs and exotic pistols are things I only include if I've got the points. They're nice, but not essential.

Jump Pack, Bike, Jetbike or Terminator Armour are things I'd only give the Centurion if you have a similarly armoured unit to put them in.

For me, the standard Centurion I take is: Centurion + Phoenix Spear + Artificer Armour + Sonic Shriekers + Boarding Shield = 95 points. It's a nice cheap HQ, and with WS 5, I 6, 4/3 A at S 5/4, AP 2/3 in the turn he gets the charge/is charged will make him pack a punch against most things in a challenge.

Plus, the nice thing about the Phoneix Spear (provided he gets the charge) is if his opponent in a challenge has an AP 2 weapon, it'll be striking after the Centurion, giving him a chance to cut it down before it can hit him and if not he's got a a 5++. An if it's got a AP 3 weapon, it'll still likely strike after him (since he's I6), but even if they strike simultaneously, it can't get through his armour. It's win-win.

So, that's my break-down of Centurions for you. Hope it helps.

As for Sicarans, they're pretty good for their base cost. I personally prefer heavy weapons teams (for example, for 45 points more you can have 20 S6 AP5 shots with Deflagrate), but if you like them they are good for their points costs. Plus, no Jink saves is nice. Although, it won't help you much against AV14 I don't think. Although, with Rending...:scratchhead: I still would have more than one anti-tank/TEQ option, as if it goes you could be screwed.

Hope that wall-o-text helps! :victory:
 
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