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Discussion Starter #1
Spiritseer
Wraithguard x6 + Wave Serpent with Eldar Missile Launcher
Wraithguard x6 + Wave Serpent with Eldar Missile Launcher
Wraithguard x6 + Wave Serpent with Eldar Missile Launcher
Wraithblades x6 + Wave Serpent with Eldar Missile Launcher
Wraithguard + D-Scythes x5 + Wave Serpent with Eldar Missile Launcher
Rangers x5
Heavy Weapon Platform with Shadow Weaver x3
Wraithlord

= 1,993pts


Using the Iyunden rules, so that the Wraithlord can be the Warlord. Hope to rush on turn 1 for a turn 2 assault. Using the Heavy Weapon Platforms to deal with hordes and, with the Rangers, keep key enemy units pinned.
 

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From my experience, Rangers are pretty much awful. You'd be better off running a unit or jetbikes for capturing/contesting objectives.

Also, EML's are now (IMHO) the worst selection for Eldar. They're just too exensive. Take the Scatter Laser - it gives you 4 shots (roughly what you'd hit with the plasma shot), and it twin links the Serpent shield weapon, which makes for a nasty combo against anything really (including anti-air). It's also 10 points less PER serpent.

Take holofields on as many as you can, especially the Scytheguard and the Wraithblades. Or maybe try and fit a second spiritseer.
 

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Ye i agree with holmes. missiles just cost way so much now and there is nothing deadlier then a scatter serpent with cannon. Also from my experience rangers rarely pin units and seem to only kill like 3 models a game. meanwhile jetbikes have saved me with last turn contest more times then i can count
 

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I am gonna pipe up and say, ELM sucks squirrel testicles. I would go 5 on several units and get that Lord up into a knight. That lord is gonna be the fat kid without a bike and everyone else has a ride to the party. At best the dude is covering 12 inches in a turn, and I am betting that you are banking on him being a melee lynchpin. Also knights have double the wounds, better for your warlord not to mention they are JMC, and have a nice First Blood standard load out.

Also the spiritseer council is pretty dang tight.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Some interesting feedback, thanks guys.
Regarding the EMLs, I have not had the bad experience that you all seem to have had. I consider them to be primarily for popping transports so that the Wraithguard units can shoot and assault whatever was inside. The Wave Serpents are, after all, only a taxi service for the Wraithguard and anything they do beyond that is a bonus. I use the Wave Serpents as a pack, making good use of the 30" move in the first turn. The death-dealing begins proper on turn 2.
The Heavy Weapon Platforms are quite useful, and can be hidden in a far and safe corner to provide cover fire for the initial Wave Serpent rush, and the Rangers are usually ignored because the Wraithguard that are only an inch from the enemy's face generally present a more urgent target. That means the Rangers can cap, and snipe to their heart's content in relative safety.
In my last game I tabled a Dark Angel army on turn 5, with the loss of only one unit of Wraithguard and the Wraithlord. The EMLs were perfect in their appointed role.
 

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Well if your using them for thank busting try bright lances for dealing with every armor better and cheaper. But I'm just stressing scatter serpents are the way to go you have enough anti tank with the wraithguard and then use the serpents to hose down the occupants.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Scatters are nice but not as versatile, I think. The plasma missiles let you hit more models and are AP4. The missiles also have a longer range and are pinning. All this makes me think that they are worth the points.
I think the Holofields might be useful in some situation, but I almost want the Wave Serpents to get blown up so that the Wraithguard can get an assault in their next turn. The Serpent Shield means that you need many hits to kill each Wave Serpent, usually, and with so many transports it will several turns before they lose effectiveness.
I might need a variant of this list to counter Fliers though, because they are a big part of the local meta game.
 

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I have to agree with Irish here, scatter serpents are vastly superior to ELM. Just wait until you face a chaos dude that has two hellturkies, the Fateweaver, and a flying DP or two backed by screamers and horrors with a cultist lord blob. If you where playing me, those rangers would be First blood fodder with my serpents, that or the lord.

I am not dissing your list at all, I think that many WG is golden, I just think you can bring up the kill ratio much higher. Play a solid tzeech list, prob the most potent list available. You will need the higher number of twin linked shots to force a bunch of saves.

If its just friendly games, ya sure ELM are fine but there is a very solid reason they wont ever been seen in any tournie finals tables.

Ok, took another look at your list. My issues, beyond the ELM, are those of synergy. You have a grand majority of your army moving all over the place leaving some static or slow moving units without support. The rangers, platforms and lord would get changed for me. Those three platforms are going to get eaten by a single drop pod sternguard unit or some termies, rangers are nothing against fearless units (alot) and the knight will get caught mid table turn2/3 and dropped.

I would like to see the knight turned into a lord and given the Suncannon package, that way he can sit with the platforms and lob blast templates with them, OR you could pull them and the lord and take just the knight that can keep up. Dump the gangers and ELM and pick up some 3 man windriders and you have a deadly list.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Why is a twin-linked EML not as good as a Scatter laser? I'm not following your logic. A blast is more likely to hit more models and has a longer range. It also has the S8 AP3 option included in the same weapon.
Could you explain your point of view?
 

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Well a scatter serpent is set up like this
Wave serpent
scatterlaser
shuriken cannon

What this gives you i 7 str6 shot that are twin linked and up to 7 str 7 shots from the shield. The shield is also twinlinked because of the scatterlaser. It also ignores cover and causes pinning. perfect for taking out pathfinders,rangers, ratlings and scouts. Units that rely on cover.

At anti air the scatter serpent works out better at killing aircraft then any other setup.
For anti infantry lets day a 10 man imperial guard unit. Lets say you hit with your blast missile you get 3 hits. 2 will wound and lets say another two from the cannon. you have killed four and caused a pinning check.
for the scatter serpent you have 4 hits and 4 wounds and 3 dead. then the cannon another 2 and the shield and we say it got 4 hits including the +1 so that would be four hits, four wounds , 3 dead. all together 8 with a moral and pinning check. against vehicles lets say a Chimera. missile 1 hits and then 50/50 to glance/pen and more then likely no glances with the cannon. scatter serpent. with str6, 6 hits. 1 glance. shield 4 hits and a 66% chance of causing glancing and pens. and it ignores cover.

God that was a lot of math.
 

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Actually a blast is far less likely to hit many models at all, in fact it could hit zero in your unlucky, or just 1 model if your enemy spreads and missiles with pinning are great.....if pinning ment anything, but it don't, nobody gets pinned...NOBODY, scatter lasers are definitely the superior choice, leave versatility to marines and guard who make better use of it, you have weapons that are superior at both roles
 

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Ya, basically what Irish said, far more reliable damage. Ignores cover + twin linked = fun. You will average five S6 and four S7 hits per serpent sub 24" range. On a flyer its easy for the prison butt shot, and you will get 1-3 glances 1 pen per volley on average. Pretty much dumping turkies, Hunters, anything other than Stormravens. It will take 2 serpents to down a Raven per turn on average. Unless it gets FAQed, the ScatterSerpent negates needing dedicated AA and on top of that it dumps infantry and MCs alike with solid consistency. You are going to need that consistency as it generally takes until turn 3 to get into combat with much of our CC.
 

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In case you are wondering on the turn three CC thing:

Turn One, move 12-30"
Turn Two, get out and stand around like a buffoon (no assault ramps)
Turn Three, hope you still have CC unit and charge
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The Scatter laser might be useful like that, although the short range of the cannon has an impact it's versatility. I'll play test it in a few days.

The survivability is pretty good though, not quite the buffoonery suggested. I keep the D-Scythes and Wraithblades close together, and usually the enemy will not know which one to worry about more, especially with 18 Wraithguard unloaded right next to them as well. 18 S10 shots are not easily ignored. Being so close to the enemy when you disembark helps mitigate the risk of attacks from Blast weapons.
 

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I totally here ya, just dont have your strat revolve around getting everybody up there. I am telling you, two hellturkies will put a serious hurt on you if you are bunched up. Hell one can be enough to gut you. And I would totally throw blasts all over 1k or more worth of points and be totally ok loosing 10 Avengers or something. Dont forget other people have flamer template weapons too.
 

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As for survivability on T6, see how many guys are standing after a Cadre and full firewarrior squad open up on you with ignores cover and bs 3 or 4. I thought the same thing, but have watched those guys get dumped fast.

You have a damn good list with that many wraithguard, there are however some serious issues with small model counts. Trust me, I know.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This was one of the reasons for considering the Heavy Weapon Platforms. I would hope to weaken a point in the enemy lines and then concentrate all the Wraithguard on that point. Because the units are quite small, but also quite deadly, it makes sense to concentrate them where they can be most effective.
Tactically I would need to disembark the units in the place that they can do maximum damage, and where the enemy response would be limited. The Wave Serpents can then usually attack from behind the enemy's lines, and provide a screen to prevent the majority of the enemy army returning effective fire.
Careful management of resources required, me thinks.
 

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I think the Holofields might be useful in some situation, but I almost want the Wave Serpents to get blown up so that the Wraithguard can get an assault in their next turn.
Hey Darklove, even emergency disembarks (from a vehicle explode/wreck) count as disembarking the following turn I believe. So the unit of Wraithguard cannot charge the following turn. They can move/run/shoot normally, but not assault.

I would love some verification on this, but I play with some pretty knowledgeable people (including several GW employees) and this is how our circle handles the rule.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Units disembark from wrecks as normal, and are then able to move, shoot and assault as normal in their own turn. If the transport explodes then some units might be affected by being pinned, but this is not an issue for fearless units, as in this case.
See p80, BRB.
 

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You're really glazing over the rules here. All page 80 says is the make a normal disembarkation, which is explained on 79. One of the restrictions of a disembarkation is that you cannot assault in the subsequent assault phase.
 
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