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post #1 of 4 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Default VC 8e patch

So, now that the Tomb Kings are roaming the earth again, I thought it was only fair to take a look at their northern cousins and see waht could be done for them. So here is what I came up with.

Core

Zombies - 2 pts/model
-New Rule "Fresh Meat" - At the end of each Close Combat phase, for each unit of zombies, roll a D6 for each casualty that unit caused to an infantry/cavalry/warbeast unit. For each 5+ rolled, add a new zombie to the unit.

For zombies, I compared them to Skavenslaves, the only 2 pt model in the game at this point. Frankly, at 2 points, slaves were still superior to zombies having 1 better WS, S, T, and 3 better I. Although not fear causing, it still wasn't enough, hence the "Fresh Meat" rule, helping the zombies sustain themselves a bit. I didn't want to go for the 1 pt zombie, since I don't think 1 point models should exist.

Skeletons - 4 pts/model

Easy enough, just put them in line with TK skeletons.

Ghouls - no change

For the ghouls, I compared them to Plague Monks of the Skaven. The differences ended up being that the Plague monks had 1 more attack compared to the Poisoned Attacks of the Ghouls. Those balanced out, so the Fear and Unbreakable rules would bump them up over the Monks, so they stayed at 8 pts.

Dire Wolves - 7 pts/model [EDIT]

I compared these guys to skeletons. The Dire Wolves are much faster, have better WS and I, but lack the 5+ armor save and parry save, so in my opinion, that balances out pretty well, so I figured they should be priced the same as skeletons.

Bat Swarms - 12 pts per base

Bat swarms are basically equivalent to 4 zombies but with a higher WS and they are faster. So I figured a flying zombie with better WS was worth only 1 point (really it was the Flying that made the difference) and then multiplied by 4.

Corpse Cart - no change.


Special

Grave Guard - no change

Black Knights - no change

Fell Bats - 10 pts/model [EDIT]

These guys are basically the equivalent of 2 skeletons that can fly and have +1 WS, but have no armor save or parry save, so I think the benefits are cancelled by the lack of saves, so they're priced as 2 skeletons.

Spirit Host - 40 pts per base.

This one was slightly trickier. They are certainly overcosted. Despite the fact that they have more Wound and Attacks than Cairne Wraiths, they aren't quite as useful. So 45 was my base line. They loose a lot of potency one you get a second rank of them and due to skirmishing now, can never disrupt the enemy, so I dropped this to 40 points.


I didn't make any changes to the Rare choices. I almost reduced the Cairne Wraiths down to 45 pts each, but decided against it, they haven't really diminished in usefulness at all in the new edition.


[EDIT for clarity]
Lore of Vampires attribute
Whenever Invocation of Nehek or any Lore of the Vampires spell that raises Undead models (Raise Dead, Wind of Undeath, Summon Undead Horde) is successfully cast, add the casters wizard level to the number of models raised. Units with the Vampire or Ethereal rule only ever regain 1 wound from this bonus.

This rule may seem a little overpowered, but I wanted it to line up with the Tomb Kings power to raise the dead without actually changing the spells around. (Thats what the reserved post below is for.) Due to the fact that the VCs have to dedicate power dice to raising dead, this attribute compensates for that fact by making sucessful casts much more useful.

So, these are the updates I've made with my logic behind them. Please tell me what you think.

Also, note that I didn't cover any Lords/Heroes or magic items. Since the focus of 8e is more on the units and less on the characters, I didn't think it was necessary to touch them to make the VCs playable again. However, I will take a look at them later and post any other changes I think need to be made below.


Last edited by HiveMinder; 05-12-11 at 03:35 PM.
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post #2 of 4 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Here's the first draft of my new and improved vampire lore.

Lore of the Vampires

Attribute: Life Siphponing
For each unsaved wound caused by a Lore of Vampires spell (including subsequent wounds caused by Curse of Years), a single Undead Vampire Counts unit within 6" of the caster recovers a wound. Units with the Ethereal or Vampire special rule may only ever recover a single wound in this way each Magic Phase.

Signature Spell: Raise Dead 6+
Choose a point anywhere within 12" of the caster and place a zombie model. Form the rest of a unit consisting of 2D6 zombies. The unit must have a front rank of at least 5 models, but may be placed facing in any direction. The caster may instead create 3D6 zombies, increasing the casting lvl to 8+, 4D6 zombies, increasing the casting lvl to 10+, or 5D6 zombies, increasing the casting lvl to 12+.

Van Hel's Danse Macabre 7+
Add augment to spell description, otherwise unchanged.

Gaze of Nagash 8+
Magic Missile. 24" range. The Gaze of Nagash causes 2D6 S4 hits. The caster may instead deal 2D6 S5 hits, increasing the casting lvl to 11+.

Curse of Years 8+
Add Hex to spell description, otherwise unchanged.

Wind of Undeath 12+
Unchanged.

Summon Undead Horde 12+
Add Augment to spell description and drop the 5D6 zombie unit part, otherwise unchanged.

Glimpse of Damnation 15+
Each enemy unit within 12" of the caster must take a Panic test. If the test is failed, the unit will flee as normal, but suffers D6 wounds as well. No armor saves may be taken against these wounds. Any fleeing units within 12" of the caster when this spell is cast will flee 2D6" and take D6 wounds with no armor saves allowed. The caster may choose to incur a -2 Ld penalty to the Panic test, if he does so, the casting lvl increases to 23+.

[Reserved for other updates]


Last edited by HiveMinder; 05-10-11 at 10:01 PM.
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post #3 of 4 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 05:59 PM
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Dire Wolves are too cheap. In Vampire Counts armies, their speed is extremely valuable in dealing with War Machines. Fell Bats have the same issue. The Line of Sight isn't an issue, but with a movement boosting spell, you're looking at a second turn charge which will be hard to shift for very little cost (160pts for 40 boosted healing wounds, and an Flying Charge+8" Magic Move) and the only thing stopping such a number is having £7 metal models, IIRC.

Bat Swarms are fine.

Skaven Slaves are not an ideal unit to compare to; they are unbeleivably broken, and having a special rule that allows them to heal back in addition to the additional healing granted to spells targetting zombies (For example, with the Sceptre of Noirot on a level 4, you're looking at D3+14 with a Corpse Cart). Incidentally, you need to reword the attribute to spells targetting Vampires or Ethereals - I first of all thought you meant that the maximum wound healed by Vampires causes that damage.

Lastly, just a flavour recommendation - remove access to the Lore of Light. Lore of Life makes sense - they're undead - but seriously; the lore of the great Ptra, eternal enemy of Nagash and his Immortals makes even less sense, considering the benefits arrayed versus the Undead, and the particular hatred of the sun by the Nagashi.



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post #4 of 4 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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So for Dire Wolves and Fell Bats, would 7 and 10 points sound more accurate?

Dire Wolves would then be 1 point more than chaos warhounds, sacrificing 1 WS for +2M.

And Fell Bats would be basically the same as a Goblin Wolf Rider with 1 higher I and slightly faster move for lack of armor or any kind of command.

First, your corpse cart/sceptre combo doesn't work. The Scepter affects Raise Dead and the Corpse Cart affects Invocation of Nehek. Second, as I pointed out, the bonus to raising granted by my attribute is there to offset the fact that TKs don't have to dedicate power dice to raising the dead. So instead of buff + 2 to 4 models, you're getting models + 1 to 4 models.

I'd also like to add that to get the D3 + 13 zombies, you have effectively spent 105 pts for those extra 2 point zombies. That 105 points of upgrades nets you 16 pts per casting.


Last edited by HiveMinder; 05-10-11 at 07:05 PM.
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